The capability to Fill is a wasted skill in ranked

Dr Poro··64 votes·2,997 views

In the old days, it was a huge deal to be able to play every role at least decently because you could be forced into any role any game. Right now, with the new champion select, people can pick their 2 favourite roles, which is great and all, but the capability to be flexible in champion select and fill out any role without performing poorly is now useless in ranked. Why would you pick fill if you can just pick your 2 most confident roles? You have a shorter queue time, but it will only have a negative impact on your winrate and winrate is the only thing that matters in ranked.

I don't have the stats, but I can only conclude that fill must have a below 50% winrate (unless there's a covariate like more very confident people/smurfs picking fill). You can't be as good at 5 roles as you are in your top 2. It's also harder to improve when you have to divide your focus on 5 roles rather than 2. I feel like filling players should get a slightly higher tier than their MMR would represent because being at 2000 MMR with FIVE roles means that you're more skilled than someone at 2000 MMR at 2 roles. Back in the days this wasn't true because the one with 2 roles would sometimes lose games because he was forced into a bad role.

Making fill more popular this way also improves matchmaking because the less popular role will be easier found. More fill also means that a smaller percentile of the filling players will get the less popular role, making fill an even more attractive option.

44 Comments

LordOfThecheese35 votes

Fill is just a second option to picking support.

RavenMagus1 votes

It's not so bad anymore. I usually pick mid/fill; I used to get support pretty much 95% of the time but these days I actually get mid quite a bit.

RainbowIcee1 votes

this is sadly the case. I just play support because if you pick support or fill at either first or secondary you are almost guaranteed support. Every now an then I get jungle though.

Meriipu11 votes

so supports should get free mmr?

maikokk1 votes

they do, by merit of waiting in line half as long and playing more games

RocketRelm1 votes

Technically this is only free mmr if they're climbing anyway.

Ryzing2Diamond6 votes

The capability to fill is still extremely important, it's only needed when you get above Plat, though. It's a high-elo skill, not a low-elo one.

RainbowIcee1 votes

fill is just support in the lower elos.

RocketRelm2 votes

I'm not 'quite' sure it's necessary for Plat+, unless you're talking about how you need a modicum of experience with every role to understand how they interact with each other, their exploitable weaknesses, contributions to the overall team impact, ability to understand "oh that's why player X did Y", etc. 'That' part makes sense.

Ryzing2Diamond1 votes

{quoted}

I'm not 'quite' sure it's necessary for Plat+, unless you're talking about how you need a modicum of experience with every role to understand how they interact with each other, their exploitable weaknesses, contributions to the overall team impact, ability to understand "oh that's why player X did Y", etc. 'That' part makes sense.

Have you heard of autofill? It's a thing. Basically the higher elo you get, the fewer people the game will be able to match with and against you. Thus, for Riot to reduce queue times for high plat+ players, they made the system force you to autofill if your queue wait time would be 30 minutes or more without it.

This is why being able to fill is extremely important, even now. It's basically impossible to climb to diamond 4+ without being able to fill competently or being in a premade so it's easier to get your role.

Morticianjohn1 votes

Autofill is only for the high diamonds. Additionally when you get to that high mmr they are pretty good about trying to get everyone into a role they're comfortable with. For example if you played Top/Mid though plat/diamond and make it to diamond II where the autofill option exists your teammates aren't going to tell you to take a role that you have little/no experience in. More likely there will be someone on the team with a bit more experience than you in that role.

Ryzing2Diamond1 votes

{quoted}

Autofill is only for the high diamonds. Additionally when you get to that high mmr they are pretty good about trying to get everyone into a role they're comfortable with. For example if you played Top/Mid though plat/diamond and make it to diamond II where the autofill option exists your teammates aren't going to tell you to take a role that you have little/no experience in. More likely there will be someone on the team with a bit more experience than you in that role.

I've had to fill in Plat 3 because of auto-fill dude. It's not about your rank, it's about your queue time. If for some reason you were the only silver in NA queueing at one point, it would force you to autofill as soon as enough people queued up, it literally has NOTHING to do with your actual rank, just your queue time.

DeathBurst5 votes

Yeah, in S5, it was basically possible to climb be being average everywhere but ensuring that your mates had their main roles and letting them carry. That's not possible anymore and that's a bit sad, but I think the new Champion Select is still worth it.

B1naryB0t1 votes

You can still negotiate with people and give them their roles, so there's that. Also knowledge of every role is very good when it comes to knowing how to play around them.

ÂFRÏCÂN GØD4 votes

Lol tbh when I see ppl pick fill, it's auto support and to lower queue times.. unless you're like me and my friends and all 5 pick fill

Plus you're basically asking for people to exploit fill because it gives an advantage. That's not good for anybody. Just bring RANDOM champ and lane play to ranked SR or normal SR.. and force someone to learn a role they don't particularly want to play. Then again some of the community isn't mature enough to handle when their Lane is taken as is and play horribly on purpose so scratch that idea lol

A Liberal4 votes

Me End of Season 5: Oh wow~! Next season I am going to be the very best! Time to learn a champion or two in every role so I can be flexible enough to be a strategic player in every game!

Me beginning of Season 6: Rufkm I can't fill now Tries to play various roles anyway

Me now: Fuck it I'll just play Morgana

RocketRelm1 votes

Do you mean support or mid? Because while I get the joke, there's a surprising amount of tactical depth to Morgana.

A Liberal1 votes

Both. She's my main so after a while she becomes freell

Master Lycan3 votes

Unfortunately OP speaks the truth. Since when I started in at Season 4 Worlds i made sure that each role i had a few champs I could select from if my main role was taken in a Ranked Game. Now I focus on Top / Jungle, which is okay because I enjoy both roles, Top lets me play Shen , Singed , and Illaoi. Jungle will always be my favorite because bae (Warwick) is there.

In my Friend group we had a very concrete pick order, and I was our resident Fill Main Beau would first pick Mid (Velkoz Mid or he's a feeder) Entropy would second pick Jungle or Top (Mostly Jungle) Isamea would pick Support / Mid (his Janna was a pick made in Heaven) I would MAKE Korinth pick before me, either Top or ADC was left mostly (Alternating between being a Villain Jinx, and smiting them Garen ) Then I would Take the last role

RainbowIcee2 votes

In Janna we trust!

Master Lycan1 votes

Yeah his Janna is really good but he doesn't believe in his play enough. Plus unfortunately he tilts like a pinball machine. [zombie-nunu-bummed]

Popppyseed2 votes

Its clear Riot wants us to focus on maining roles because of the new champ select. They fixed the primary/secondary picks but keep fill as the second support button.

chipndip12 votes

What you're basically saying is that the sum of someone's skillsets in a game is greater than the parts, which ironically isn't true. You don't see people flaming Aphromoo because he's not as strong in other roles as he is at support. When it comes to games of ALL kinds, you get as far as your strongest character/role gets you. That's what matters.

This has been the main point of changing champ select ever since I started playing this game. "If I'm good at X, I shouldn't be judged for my ability to play stuff I suck at". Yea, "fill" isn't as necessary, but fill's necessity was due to a lousy champ select in the first place.

Partholonian2 votes

{quoted}

What you're basically saying is that the sum of someone's skillsets in a game is greater than the parts, which ironically isn't true. You don't see people flaming Aphromoo because he's not as strong in other roles as he is at support. When it comes to games of ALL kinds, you get as far as your strongest character/role gets you. That's what matters.

This has been the main point of changing champ select ever since I started playing this game. "If I'm good at X, I shouldn't be judged for my ability to play stuff I suck at". Yea, "fill" isn't as necessary, but fill's necessity was due to a lousy champ select in the first place.

Aphromoo is part of a pro team where he gets support in 100% of his games. That is obviously going to devalue flexibility -- he doesn't need flexibility, except when he's streaming randoms for lolz. But it's also irrelevant to the vast majority of players, who are not pros. (I actually first typed "who are not poros", which is also true, but has nothing to do with my argument.)

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

Aphromoo is part of a pro team where he gets support in 100% of his games. That is obviously going to devalue flexibility -- he doesn't need flexibility, except when he's streaming randoms for lolz. But it's also irrelevant to the vast majority of players, who are not pros. (I actually first typed "who are not poros", which is also true, but has nothing to do with my argument.)

We're not pros, but that doesn't change the fact that one should be judged on what they do best, not their general ability to be "good enough".

Dr Poro1 votes

I'm not asking for making fill the best way to climb. Picking your best role will still be better for 95% of the people. But fill should at least be viable. There should be some reason to say "okay I can play whatever role I'm needed."

Morticianjohn1 votes

Strangely enough you picked a player who has shown the flexibility to play at the pro level in many different roles. Aphromoo in particular demonstrates how champion and role diversity help to develop a player. Although less practiced I think he could probably still play ADC as well as support.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

Strangely enough you picked a player who has shown the flexibility to play at the pro level in many different roles. Aphromoo in particular demonstrates how champion and role diversity help to develop a player. Although less practiced I think he could probably still play ADC as well as support.

This doesn't refute the point...

Linna Excel2 votes

Filling is good at teaching you the game, so I'd suggest doing it in normals. However for ranked, stick to your two best roles.

TacoTheKitten2 votes

[deleted]

Dr Poro1 votes

Perhaps not 20% because that wouldn't help reduce the queue times for everyone, but max 40% should be a fine cap.

Hellen Keller2 votes

Yeah, when I first started playing (I got into normals just before the new map came out), my friends had me learn to play any role so that I could climb easier. Sure enough, once I start figuring out what I'm doing (s6), dynamic queue comes out and a "jack of all trades" approach simply doens't work any more.

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

Its a real pity because filling gives you perspective on what you can expect other roles to do in any given situation.

The Deckowner2 votes

fill = support basically, I get more support by selecting fill than selecting support primary.

Rıots Bad Client1 votes

Personally I would like to have Fill to be "Put me where I'm needed" and random "Pick a random role"

Monkey Strangler1 votes

Riot should make people choose 3 of their main roles (because 2 sometimes just doesn't cut it) on their profile and have the fill option prioritize the 3 selected roles and if that fails, put them somewhere else. Or instead of choosing 3 roles, give people the option to list their roles from best to worst and use that for filling. Not sure if I'm explaining myself correctly.

On a side note: I love my 1 second Q times when picking support and fill, since I honestly enjoy supporting (as long as I have a somewhat decent ADC that doesn't think he can 1v1 a god damn Draven at lvl 4 as Twitch in a minion wave or a Vayne that thinks she can 1v5 at lvl 6 with half an item because her farm is atrocious) :D

LadyRenly1 votes

dynamic qs could just all "fill" and then take what role they wanted.

but i do agree, filling was more rewarding in previous seasons. in previous seasons you were never guaranteed any lane so you had to be decent at all of them

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Thank you for saying this. Been feeling this way ever since the change and I hate it.

Quepha1 votes

There's no real reason that this is a bad thing. Being a 5-tool player isn't really valuable, in pro games that was always the case and now it's also true for the rest of the population.

I have a feeling that matchmaking tries to get an equal number of players on both sides who are on their secondary role or fill to try and balance out the primary-role advantage.

Dr Poro2 votes

I have a feeling that matchmaking tries to get an equal number of players on both sides who are on their secondary role or fill to try and balance out the primary-role advantage.

If this is the case, then that would be pretty good. Picking fill should increase the chance of having a fill on the opponent team to even out. That would be a nice thing. Can a Rioter confirm that this is the case?

blkKalameet1 votes

I agree, but I still keep myself at least passably practiced with a couple champs in every role.

if our jungler had been playing nothing but mid for the last month I will gladly trade to keep him out of the jungle.

LuxannaVeritas1 votes

Upvoted and agreed!!

I used to pride myself as a "fill main" in normals, but now that I play ranked... well, I want to do my best, and my best role is support.

Now I'm a "support main" because it's more rewarding than being a "fill main," but I really want to go back...

Hyrum Graff1 votes
Morticianjohn1 votes

Yeah,

I used to fill, then this season I got support about 80% of the time when choosing the "fill" option so I stopped choosing fill or support. Instead I chose ADC/JG for awhile and now I'm choosing Top/Mid and finding that I am kinda bad at those roles which I haven't played in over 100 ranked games since the changes.

Anyway, I really wish the fill option worked. I like playing all roles but getting support more than 25% of the time is not enjoyable. If I have to play something more than 20% of the time I'd prefer any other role.

I do wish they had the option to queue up for "any role but support".

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