Just to entertain an idea, what if Haunting Guise, Sorc. Shoes, and other flat penetration items had their bonus penetration scale with your level instead of being a flat amount? For instance, say Sorc Shoes gave 1.5*level Mpen or something like that.
Why? Because your targets are never expected to have just 30 MR or less than 100 armor.
(Don't flip out at this. This is just something I want people to give a little thought.)
Zielmann3 votesFlat pen is better early. Later on you add percent pen on top of it (LW or VS) to mitigate resistances that have been built by the other team. Flat pen isn't intended to scale late into the game.
Worgslarg1 votesThis. Flat pen is best early game on champions with high base damages but low AP/AD ratios.( Eg rumble) However, it is good on almost every champ in the early/mid game.
7ha7guy7771 votesi was about to ask about champions with high base damages AND high ratios 
but the second part answered my question
darkdill1 votesThis begs the question, though: Why flat penetration on Liandry's Torment, which is clearly a late-game item?
Darkwind1 votesThis begs the question, though: Why flat penetration on Liandry's Torment, which is clearly a late-game item?
because haunting guise is an early game item. It used to be haunting guise didnt build into anything, so no one got it. Then they made liandry's. Basically you buy HG, finish your build, then finish liandry. Really nice build path if you can make decent-good use of liandry
darkdill1 votesCouldn't they buff the amount of Mpen Liandry gives? Or is that too much power?
Zielmann1 votesProbably too much power, and it wouldn't really make sense for guise to have flat pen, and then have it switch over to % pen when you upgrade it. And given that it has the % HP scaling, it'll effectively do more damage later on in the game when targets actually have more HP (you probably have a void staff at this point to help mitigate MR that was built).
darkdill1 votesI didn't mean change it to % pen, but to add more flat pen. Something like +25-30 Mpen rather than +15.
Darkwind2 votesI didn't mean change it to % pen, but to add more flat pen. Something like +25-30 Mpen rather than +15.
that's too much power. a way to judge that is this: You average tank will have 134.5 mr at level 18, more-or-less full build. This includes mr/lvl glyphs and 1 55 mr item (visage/banshee), as well as mr/lvl base, which only melees get. If an ap has void staff and offensive masteries, that number is immediately reduced (effectively) to 82. Remove 15 more from sorc shoes, and 8 from mpen marks and you're looking at 59 mr, just barely more than their base amount at 18. Take 15 for current liandry, and they're already below what they would normally have at 18 (theyre at 44; base is 52.5). If you take 10-15 more, suddenly they're at what SQUISHIES start the game with, just 30... they may as well not have any at all.
It gets even worse with someone squishy. An adc with 4x mr flat 5x mr scaling and QSS will effectively have 5-10 mr after pen if you give liandry that bonus pen. And don't forget there's still another pen (it's actually reduction, which calculates differently) item out there, abyssal. that would bring the mr amounts to 25 for a tank or 1 for a squishy. Just.... ouch.
Marthian1 votes5-10 mr before abyssal would leave a squishy with negative 10-15 MR, which would make your magic damage do more than true damage.
Darkwind1 votes5-10 mr before abyssal would leave a squishy with negative 10-15 MR, which would make your magic damage do more than true damage.
This isn't accurate, but is a common misconception. So the order that magic pen/reduction is calculated in is: Flat magic recduction>%magic reduction>%magic penetration>flat magic penetration. So, the calculation for magic pen with abyssal, voidstaff, %pen masteries, 30 mpen from a buffed liandry, 15 pen from sorcs is:
95.36-20= 75.36*(.65)*(.94)=46.04-30-15=1.04 magic resist. I did forget to include the 8 magic pen one gets from mpen reds (both when i got the 5-10 mr without abyssal and the 1 mr with it), but magic pen cannot take an enemy below 0 mr; only magic reduction. Think of it like this: i can reduce your resistance below 0, making you even more vulnerable than you normally are to my magic, but i cannot penetrate magic resist that isn't there. So that magic pen would only put them at 0 magic resist.
Zielmann2 votesThis may sound slightly contradictory, but having too many good options for flat pen actually could cause problems for tanks later on in the game.
With VS, you're starting off by ignoring 35% of a target's MR. With masteries, you're at about 40% mpen (for easy math). Let's say you've got sorc's and liandry's with that. That's an additional 30 flat pen. You might have another 10 flat from runes. A couple values of actual -> effective MR: 100 -> 20 150 -> 50 200 -> 80 250 -> 110
Another 10-15 flat pen on top of that would make life extremely difficult for tanks, even late game. Especially since there's a % health aspect to the damage on Liandry's, and their MR really wouldn't be doing much to mitigate that. Not to mention that the extra flat pen would likely make the item a must-rush for every caster in the game (25-30 mpen in a single slot is huge). And I didn't even factor MR reduction into the mix (Abyssal and, more situationally, Fiddles passive).
Darkwind1 votesThis may sound slightly contradictory, but having too many good options for flat pen actually could cause problems for tanks later on in the game.
this is what i was saying. it's the same but even worse for squishies
TecToNiiC1 votesEdit: nvm im an idiot. Did it used to be flat pen before %. I thought it was changed at some point
Zielmann1 votesYeah, it was flat before % for a long time. Don't remember exactly when they switched it, but it was either season 3 or season 4. Back when bruisers ruled the game and there really was no place for assassins.
GalacticBears1 votesGood idea but it should increase per something. My thought would be per mana, this way you have to sacrifice something like AP/Health/whatever item. That way it's balanced.
darkdill1 votesI'd have it be per level because if it scales off mana, suddenly it's useless on Rumble, Akali, etc.
The per-level scaling worked for Sunfire Cape, after all.
GalacticBears1 votesCertain items aren't for everyone gotta be realistic. If not per mana, a percentage per AP? So like 10% pen per 50 AP? There has to be a "drawback" to these items. Like you're buying this and losing x.
Darkwind2 votesCertain items aren't for everyone gotta be realistic. If not per mana, a percentage per AP? So like 10% pen per 500 AP? There has to be a "drawback" to these items. Like you're buying this and losing x.
fixed
GalacticBears1 votesAnyone with 500 AP is squishy and should be suffering plenty unless their team is awesome at peeling and their positioning is nearly flawless.
Darkwind4 votesAnyone with 500 AP is squishy and should be suffering plenty unless their team is awesome at peeling and their positioning is nearly flawless.
wanna bet?
GalacticBears1 votesFirst two Items are flat health which isn't truly defensive. Also getting 
means those have effectively helped whoever has it more than your HP items.
Rab Cap does nothing for Defense or HP
50 Armor? You can get 0 Pen and still do solid damage to 50 Armor. The stasis would help with champs along the lines of Karthus, but otherwise you'd have to time it to avoid CC or you're dead again.
Same thing applies to 45 Magic Resist, except it's even less effective because AD damage is more common and it's passive isn't effective unless you're in what is essentially everyones attack range. Placing together is almost always mandatory and you'd still lose against most (and for this example only. no other roles) adcs that have any kind of escape/
Marthian1 votesThey were going to do % of your health anyways, might as well make your HP bigger because not everyone deals % damage.
junglerboy161 votesSo you want to buff Ryze?
BremerdanGorst1 votesRiot said in a thread way back about Warmog's that they didn't want to do level scaling on item stats because it punishes for getting it early unless it starts at ridiculous stats, then everyone gets it. They made an exception for Sunfire Cape, but only because you didn't really have an option of fighting against someone with it early.