To those who keeps saying Lethality should outscale tanks Let me tell you this

taleofsonata·Feb 21, 2017·74 votes·4,889 views

There are SPECIFIC champions in the GAME called TANK KILLER,

THEY EXIST for a REASON, if every champions becomes tank killer whats the point of having tanks, Tanks do alot of damage because the fights are long, not because they are op or anything is because of the Lack of Tank killers. Vel koz is a Tank killer but no one picks him even in LCS. He is a good champion but he tank kills poorly. It's fun having a 500 armor rammus die in 2 sec to full AD team.

120 Comments

ScissorsNstuffFeb 21, 20174 votes

there are no specific champions called tank killer velkoz is not called a tank killer

velkoz can kill tanks

but I've not seen anyone since his release refer to him as "tank killer" that I can recall

If velkoz was buffed for tank killing ad lcs he'd need nerfs to compensate and you probably wouldn't enjoy them.

MuzétFeb 21, 201731 votes

Vayne ? Fiora ?

junglerboy16Feb 21, 201715 votes

Not to mention KogMaw MasterYi Trundle or an ADC with BotRK

ADC is a MemeFeb 22, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Not to mention or an ADC with BotRK

Those all suck though atm except for fiora and trundle Most of the tank killing adcs are god awful EDIT: Fiora is also hard as fuck to make work in a team fight where a tank would be, since you now have to lose a tank spot to put in a fiora who unless she's ahead, is not that bulky to survive a team fight. Supports are also now secondary midlaners so yeah, at max you'd have 1 tank (the jungler) unless the support is a tank making fiora sub-optimal outside of split pushing.

KnoyleFeb 22, 20171 votes

and there in lies an issue.

ADC is a MemeFeb 22, 20171 votes

{quoted}

and there in lies an issue.

The real issue is with crit and attack speed adcs. Unless you're cait or ashe it feels awful to build. Another issue is with LW, building one item and using up a slot to deal with the tank feels awful, since you now have to lower general DPS in order to deal with one guy.

KnoyleFeb 22, 20174 votes

Building LW SHOULD have a drawback. There is no reason to be mindlessly rewarded for building whatever item how you feel.

item 3157 sacrifice damage for cdr and defense item 3027 slowly scaling item meaning this is not going to really give you a powerspike as a drawback to gradually getting better stats. item 3110 nice raw armor and cdr but no hp bonus which a tank usually wants item 3100 can boost your burst but doesn't make it any safer for you to get that close to use it. item 3083 Nice chunk of raw hp. no resistances. Something a tank also really wants.

Why shouldn't LW items sacrifice your effectiveness to squishy targets? You are investing into being able to more quickly take down the enemy tank or "Tank" and don't "Just one guy" me and when Renekton Darius Volibear Illaoi Hecarim Trundle Poppy Garen DrMundo etc. exist and you will likely see more than one of these guys at a time possible 3 of them and then 2 carries. If MasterYi takes item 1419 item 3087 item 3031 item 3153 item 3078 item 3006 to Rammus with item 1409 item 3143 item 3083 item 3075 item 3742 item 3047 He deserves it when Rammus just has to press w and watch

ADC is a MemeFeb 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Building LW SHOULD have a drawback. There is no reason to be mindlessly rewarded for building whatever item how you feel.

sacrifice damage for cdr and defense slowly scaling item meaning this is not going to really give you a powerspike as a drawback to gradually getting better stats. nice raw armor and cdr but no hp bonus which a tank usually wants can boost your burst but doesn't make it any safer for you to get that close to use it. Nice chunk of raw hp. no resistances. Something a tank also really wants.

Why shouldn't LW items sacrifice your effectiveness to squishy targets? You are investing into being able to more quickly take down the enemy tank or "Tank" and don't "Just one guy" me and when etc. exist and you will likely see more than one of these guys at a time possible 3 of them and then 2 carries. If takes to with He deserves it when just has to press w and watch

Big difference with aps and tank items, those champions have actual utility and/or high base damage, most ADCs aside from the jhin/varus/mf do not, so sacrificing DPS is huge.

MisterShamelessFeb 23, 20171 votes

But with LW, you negate a nice chunk of armor/gold from the enemy tank which seems more positive than negative. In the end, your only real concern is the enemy carries who are dealing the damage you want to avoid.

DarkPh0enixFeb 21, 20173 votes

Garen and Darius are very effective at killing tanks too.

starelementpokeFeb 22, 20178 votes

I'll give you Darius, but you have a single decent MR item and it becomes 50 times harder for a Garen to kill you.

dragon1xxFeb 22, 20171 votes

True damage

SulghunterFeb 22, 20175 votes

That's assuming the tank is the villain, which is rather unreliable.

EROTIC RAID BOSSFeb 22, 20173 votes

he'll still shred their armor by a lot

starelementpokeFeb 22, 20171 votes

Assuming the people are dumb enough to stand still in his he for 4 ticks, which, unless you've managed to CC them there for that long, is most likely not going to happen.

EROTIC RAID BOSSFeb 22, 20171 votes

4 ticks isn't very long and you can silence them to keep them there

starelementpokeFeb 23, 20171 votes

Except he only spins about five times or so early levels, and the silence does little to keep them there. They can still literally just walk out

EROTIC RAID BOSSFeb 23, 20171 votes

you don't need to shred their armor super hard early game...

ahferroin7Feb 22, 201710 votes

Vel'Koz has traditionally been considered a tankbuster because he had very easy access to very high true damage and was one of the few mages who did.

Among others though you have: Vayne Fiora Varus Kog'Maw Brand Mundo (with the right build) Trundle (again, with the right build) Darius

As a general rule, there are champs who are significantly better as tank killers, and they are known for such.

ScissorsNstuffFeb 22, 20171 votes

Why are you telling me this? And no, vel'koz has not traditionally been considered a "tankbuster"

Regardless of what he is or isn't capable of, just like the others, this has NEVER been a major part of his identity among the community and he is often excluded from shorter lists about tank killers.

EROTIC RAID BOSSFeb 22, 20174 votes

he is very good at it post 'rework'

azir is pretty good vs tanks too

ScissorsNstuffFeb 22, 20171 votes

._. like seriously what's wrong with you people, is this some sort of meme these days?

EROTIC RAID BOSSFeb 22, 20174 votes

what. he has a lot of true damage that's supposed to help make him good vs tanky frontlines

ScissorsNstuffFeb 22, 20171 votes

.> ... close enough

:/ the fact remains that being a tank killer has never been a central focus of velkoz's kit, it has not been a central focus of his identity by the community, and pretending he was balanced around killing tanks therefore justifying some lethality related balance argument is not really an acceptable thing to do.

EROTIC RAID BOSSFeb 22, 20172 votes

I'm not using it to justify a stupid lethality argument. I'm just saying he is pretty good at tank killing and that is what hes designed to do

ScissorsNstuffFeb 22, 20171 votes

considering he was given this during a time when tanks were stacking a ton of hp rather than magic resistance I'm doubtful that this was actually the intent. I also don't recall this being mentioned ever.

Dextix LTFeb 22, 20172 votes

Having a passive that deals true damage is not intended to kill tanks?

Welll gee, I WONDER WHAT ITS FOR!

ScissorsNstuffFeb 23, 20171 votes

Maybe for the same reason that lethality, another form of penetration, is more effective against squishes than it is tanks...

Dextix LTFeb 23, 20171 votes

Being effective against squishies and tanks are not two exclusive things, one does not nulify the other.

Vayne is a tank killer, yet she also kills squishies. Same with Vel'koz, his kit is good at killing tanks and squishies.

More often than not true damage is the most effective tool against tanks, not squishies.

And easy access to true damage makes any champion a tank killer.

EROTIC RAID BOSSFeb 23, 20171 votes

they talked about it a lot at the time- they wanted his research mechanic to feel more thematic and they wanted to give him an identity that was less generic mage, because the roster updates are all about carving out niches for different champions from each other.

specifically vel'koz is a good standard mage to take into tanks, with the addition of true damage on a researched ult.

Dextix LTFeb 22, 20173 votes

Nothing is wrong with us, it is just you that does not know shit it seems.

ScissorsNstuffFeb 22, 20171 votes

Or you've just got your head so far up your ass that you feel like these obvious facts you're feeding me are something special and necessary. Maybe stop getting off to random facts nobody asked for and stay on topic?

Dextix LTFeb 22, 20172 votes

These facts ARE obivious, but you choose to ignore them. Vel'Koz IS a tank killer, most of his damage actually comes from his passive. He is not focused on that, but he is one due to the nature of his kit.

I stay on topic, you don't know shit about vel'koz.

ScissorsNstuffFeb 22, 20171 votes

The facts are obvious, I haven't ignored them. You just haven't actually contradicted me despite coming to talk all that shit. "HERPDERP YOU DONT KNOW ANYTHING BECAUSE IM TELLING YOU SOMETHING I KNOW IS OBVIOUS THAT DOESNT EVEN DISAGREE WITH ANYTHING YOU SAID!"

Dextix LTFeb 22, 20172 votes

You asked what is wrong with people that think, that vel'koz is a tank killer. I answered, nothing.

Because he is a tank killer due to his passive. Try to keep up.

ScissorsNstuffFeb 23, 20171 votes

the person who went in the completely wrong direction is bragging because someone cant keep up...

I didn't ask the wrong people. I watched hundreds of people fail to ever mention this over the span of months, years even. A few times at best.

Dextix LTFeb 23, 20171 votes

Im sorry, are you just trolling, or is your concept of english language that backwards? I did not go in any wrong direction, my comment was a DIRECT respense to yours, and i even explained that before this comment!

You did not ask the wrong people, that is right. You asked what is wrong with people, something i mentioned before. Everyone knows that vel'koz is a tank killer, not a premier one like vayne, but still pretty damn good at his job.

I will again explain mmy response, because you can't seem to grasp it.

Here is the comment that i responded to.

._. like seriously what's wrong with you people, is this some sort of meme these days?

There is nothing wrong with people who say that vel'koz is a tank killer, because he is. It is not a meme, it is a FACT.

And you failing to grasp such simple sentences is simply silly.

ScissorsNstuffFeb 23, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dextix LT,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=26O3rL7M,comment-id=000000030000000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-23T07:14:07.264+0000)

Im sorry, are you just trolling, or is your concept of english language that backwards?

You'd have to actually read to say something like this.

I did not go in any wrong direction, my comment was a DIRECT respense to yours, and i even explained that before this comment!

No, it really wasn't.

You did not ask the wrong people, that is right. You asked what is wrong with people, something i mentioned before. Everyone knows that vel'koz is a tank killer, not a premier one like vayne, but still pretty damn good at his job.

Mostly irrelevant, lets see if you get to a meaningful point or youre just regurgitating something that doesn't contradict anything ive said

I will again explain mmy response, because you can't seem to grasp it.

oh boy here we go again

Here is the comment that i responded to.

There is nothing wrong with people who say that vel'koz is a tank killer, because he is. It is not a meme, it is a FACT.

holy shit you're dense. I was talking about this excessive influx of people who act like at any point ive said that velkoz isn't good at killing tanks. Yes, he can kill tanks. Clapclap look at you with your smurt hat. So proud, but is that all you have to say? If so then you're just wasting time. You've said absolutely nothing new.

And you failing to grasp such simple sentences is simply silly.

I grasp your sentences, what I don't grasp is what any of this has to do with whether or not lethality is or should be balanced around the existence of champs that can kill tanks. But thank you very much for your simplistic and already acknowledged observation of the obvious. I'm sure you'll make a great... something... some day.

ScissorsNstuffFeb 23, 20171 votes

No, I asked what was wrong with people who go off topic and state the obvious like its relevant and completely fail to understand the original point. They then proceed to form a sort of chacha line of people who have no fucking clue what was originally being talked about.

Sure velkoz can kill a tank, but why the hell are you quoting me just to say this? You've added nothing. you've contradicted nothing. I've said from the beginning that he's good at it.

Guess what! Guess what! Lee sin also has a tank killing strategy! OMG I'm a genius like you now! It has nothing to do with the actual point of the conversation but why don't I just pat myself on the back and act condescending anyways just to fit in!?!

WolfeurFeb 22, 20171 votes

Vayne is kind of the parangon of tank killers: ADC with built-in %max HP true damage. She shreds tanks in seconds.

ScissorsNstuffFeb 22, 20171 votes

vayne shreds everything. Ironically it is for this reason that she is not given some special status as a tank killer. She does not specialize in killing tanks specifically and is not exactly balanced to make sure its mostly tanks she's killing

DragonSheaFeb 22, 20172 votes

{quoted}

vayne shreds everything. Ironically it is for this reason that she is not given some special status as a tank killer. She does not specialize in killing tanks specifically and is not exactly balanced to make sure its mostly tanks she's killing

Vayne IS a tank killer. anyone with % True damage while attacking fast is one by the default.

originary91Feb 22, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Vayne IS a tank killer. anyone with % True damage while attacking fast is one by the default.

But she'll also pop a squishy in 2 hits at full build. So technically she's an everything killer

WolfeurFeb 22, 20171 votes

But she'll also pop a squishy in 2 hits at full build

Everyone pops a squishy in 2 hits at full build…

originary91Feb 25, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Everyone pops a squishy in 2 hits at full build…

Sounds like you play a lot of adc. Zed doesn't even pop a squishy in 2 hits at full build smh.

WolfeurFeb 25, 20171 votes

I main support…

BootlesslyFeb 21, 20171 votes

the mage rework was created to balance out the juggernaut meta. Everyone that got minor reworks got more percentage damage and true damage. It did not however make them tank killers. Vayne is the only champion in the game created to be a full tank counter and its pronounced "tank shredder"

BluePolarizerFeb 21, 201712 votes

Kog, Fiora and Darius are really good at destroying tanks. Darius in particular eats tanks for breakfast all game from laning to late.

MaeDoSanFeb 21, 20173 votes

He honestly shouldn't get free armor pen with his e Don't know why wukong and garen also have free armor pen

BluePolarizerFeb 21, 20179 votes

Garen I kinda understand since he's a frontliner that fights other frontliners (same as Darius actually; he isn't designed to dive the backline) but Wukong's arpen is just out of place.