Kayle's passive now causes true damage once she hits level 16, and given how she'll still be an attack-speed builder, that's gonna be another DELETE-EVERYTHING in the roster. With AOE TRUE DAMAGE.
Stop handing true damage out like candy.
The thigh guy35 votesAgreed. Armornand mr are already the most worthless stats in the game. Why make it worse?
Deliberate Inter5 votesACTUALLY every point of armor and every point of mr always adds exactly 1% of your EHP vs damage of that type. They are two of the strongest stats in the game.
Speeedy19 votesthen why do tanks melt in less than 3 seconds?
The thigh guy19 votes[{quoted}](name=Brony Gaymer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=23FXnTxE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-19T19:14:54.743+0000)
ACTUALLY every point of armor and every point of mr always adds exactly 1% of your EHP vs damage of that type. They are two of the strongest stats in the game.
Not even close. Because they are the only stats that are reduced by 44% and 40% by default.
Armor is reduced because every game has black cleaver, conquerer or both in it
And every game has a void staff in it.
So no. They are the actual most worthless stats in the game due to core items ignoring their existence.
Ragnaveil3 votesLets also not forget that in the gameplay thing, they dont use Rageblade. Makes you wonder if they know she'll probably abuse the shit out of the phantom hit and double pen.
Daddy Ants3 votesLets also not forget that in the gameplay thing, they dont use Rageblade. Makes you wonder if they know she'll probably abuse the shit out of the phantom hit and double pen.
Pen is anti synergetic with True damage.
LordGeovanni4 votesTrue damage wont get as much relative value when paired with Penetration but its never going to reduce the amount of true damage.
3TWarrior1 votescare to explain how doing MORE damage on top of true damage is a bad thing?
it's like a bayonette, it's already a gun but you can use it as a spear and a knife too
Lagor1 votesYeah but adcs but rageblade and ignore the magic pen because it’s that busted so
The thigh guy3 votesLets also not forget that in the gameplay thing, they dont use Rageblade. Makes you wonder if they know she'll probably abuse the shit out of the phantom hit and double pen.
I mean. She already abuses pen pretty hard on the normal rageblade.
Shonjl1 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=23FXnTxE,comment-id=000000000002,timestamp=2019-02-19T19:22:39.602+0000)
Not even close. Because they are the only stats that are reduced by 44% and 40% by default.
Armor is reduced because every game has black cleaver, conquerer or both in it
And every game has a void staff in it.
So no. They are the actual most worthless stats in the game due to core items ignoring their existence.
And people wonder why shit like Darius, Garen, Yorick and whatnot builds nearly offensive nowadays. In the past building Trinity on Darius, even moreso Garen was a joke, hell the short time you built ER on Renekton when he doesn't even have mana says it all.
Defensive stats are trash in the game due to overabundance on damage, and even with it supposedly lowered, its still too high. Its why tank champs like Leona and Maokai and shit build shield items moreso than raw defense, only champ that builds raw defense nowadays is Sion, since he gets such huge amounts of free hp passively and a fairly spammable %max hp shield he can get away with it. When tank items alone get you like 3-4k hp and fairly decent resist, on top of a passive that can give you another 2-3k, yes, you will do alright. But even Sion gets cut down fairly quick by some champs, put a Vayne which is very common right now next to a Sion and see what happens, he dies in if you are lucky 5 seconds...by a single champ....and he is the best tank we got right now
ADCs were meant to counter the bruisers and tanks of the game, but they weren't meant to kill them in 2 seconds either. A tank was meant to be whittled down by an ADC/their team. Not a single person. An ADC unless insanely ahead and the tank is insanely behind should be able to shrug it off for a while. But people are so deathly afraid of a tank meta when it hasn't existed since release Cinderhulk and even then it was like 3 champs, they cry about it.
Aseraan2 votesYe but sadly you actualy need to build hp too for that dont forget or its just wasted stats......
Deliberate Inter1 votesHP is additive and armor and mr are multiplicative, it's best to build up to 2400 HP post true damage at which point armor and mr become more effective. Non warmog tanks usually want 2800 hp and mog tanks want 3000. Just so you know you usually go over this a little anyway so it's a nonissue but armor and Mr are Extremely powerful especially if you have a source of regen
Aseraan2 votesMakes sense than why everyone melts on sight my bad sry.....
Aatrox Airlines1 votes[{quoted}](name=Brony Gaymer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=23FXnTxE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-19T19:14:54.743+0000)
ACTUALLY every point of armor and every point of mr always adds exactly 1% of your EHP vs damage of that type. They are two of the strongest stats in the game.
no.
0-100 armor = 0-50% physical damage reduction 101=200 armor = 51-75% reduction 201-300 armor = 76-87.5% reduction etc
Deliberate Inter1 votesI said 1% of your effective hp, not your hp.
Thilmer3 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=23FXnTxE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-19T19:13:05.289+0000)
Agreed. Armornand mr are already the most worthless stats in the game. Why make it worse?
I'm not even buying defensive stats anymore. They are basically throwing away gold if the enemy has some brain.
AirKingNeo18 votesyeah at level 16
LEVEL 16
LEVEL 16
#LEVEL 16
yeah seems like a ways off.
5050BS13 votesDont forget she also does % HP damage too
AirKingNeo6 voteson an ACTIVE, on-attack (consumed) ability, not onhit (constant).
Sir Saltarin1 votesAre you excited about New Kayle ?
Oh man I cant wait to play with the Aether Wings skin I crafted 3 years ago and that I've only used like 5 times
AirKingNeo1 votesI wish the E gave active range for 10 seconds like before.
I guess I'm a melee champion now, so I better have MELEE BASE STATS
new Q is really cool, but the hitbox might be too thin.
I hope the E cooldown is short
R is fucking stupid. 160s CD rank 1 means the ability is gonna be ASS to use. I want invul, not damage, give back my short cooldown.
R needs to have no mana cost OR increase kayle's mana. E needs to restore at least half it's cost on killing minions with the empowered attack.
Sir Saltarin1 votesFor what I've seen she wont be playable on Bot, Jng or Supp.
I can see her rushing Gunblade with a Mana Band to skip a first mana item and the go to Nashor's Tooth. Since her passive doesn't has synergy with either Guinsoo's or Runaan (confirmed by Meddler) I can see her not buying that and going Liche Zhonyas Deathcap over those items.
She will probably run Grasp or FleetF to not be murdered in lane, her Q seems easy to land, her E is on 8s cd on all ranks.
LTK KoRo1 votesyou basically want to make kayle bonkers in lane (especially vs melees) while keeping her ridiculous lategame
what about no?
AirKingNeo1 votesnerf her late game then. I want kayle's pre-rework powercurve.
jocomotion13 votesHonestly since she’s a hypercarry, and doesn’t get true damage until SUPER late game I don’t really see the issue with this one. It’s like true damage is the boards trigger recently.
Conq and ignite where my two personal peeves and the true damage on each has been toned down, so I don’t see much of an issue anymore.
Doombot1 votesjocomotion1 votesLooks like her W scaling is pretty bad healing wise, not terrible but definitely below average.
Looks like you really can’t AA Durring entire Ult, which is actually fair since her consistant damage got such a boost in power.
I doubt she’d be a late game support or bruiser since her base defenses and consistant supportive capabilities would be severely lacking. Especially if she builds for an on-hit hypercarry like she usually does.
USG Failsawce9 votesWhy not just give everyone true dmg tho? Remove physical and magic damage from the game and just give every single champ that exists flat true dmg with 0 mitigation.. since riot likes it so much and since basically everyone has it or access to it in some way or another
the point in true dmg before was that it wasn't something everyone had and that's what made it a nice thing.. but now who gives a flying fuck? true dmg adds "flavor" to new kits when they can't think of better options, and certainly isn't something to simply fill in gaps to while making clueless rito programmers feel clever amirite.. facepalm
LynchLuxPlayers9 votesWestern boards are not important. The only important market is the Chinese loot box market.
iiGazeii8 votesYou have to admit, gaining true damage totally fits the theme of an angel of justice. Smiting her enemies regardless of their defenses is exactly what you'd expect her to do. She also has armor/MR shred for the same reason.
Regardless, they have taken lots of steps to reduce true damage. IE no longer gives true damage, and the new Conqueror has significantly less uptime and less true damage than the old one.
darkdill5 votesIt's less about the potency of the true damage and more about there being too many individual sources.
iiGazeii6 votesIt's less about the potency of the true damage and more about there being too many individual sources.
And they've been curbing down on both of those.
True damage on an item or keystone has far more widespread impact than on a single champion. Yes, they removed true damage on IE and now Kayle has true damage, but that isn't a 1:1 replacement. Removing it from IE stopped EVERY crit champion from having easy access to true damage without even changing their build. Letting Kayle deal true damage at level 16 and beyond is nowhere near the same amount of frequency.
CoraloDy3 votesCurbing
Adding it to kits that didn't have it before
Pick one.
BigSquirrell3 votesI'm with iiGazeii on this one, and I don't think this is a "pick one" situation Having true damage on one champion's kit where it can be very simply and easily tuned as needed is a completely different animal than having an item and keystone that give true damage to any champion that wants to build for it. I really don't like that it's in Kayle's kit now and I'd much rather it not be there, but I do think it's a much better situation than what IE and Conqueror has been. I think some amount of true damage on a late-game hyper-carry like Kayle is meant to be even makes sense in theory since her identity is weak early and monster late, and building health against her will still be something so long as it's not another %hp true damage thing, but it really needs to be handled with care even then.
iiGazeii5 votes
Curbing
Adding it to kits that didn't have it before
Pick one.
Adding it to a single champion in a way that only affects the very end of the game when it totally suits her character, themes, and playstyle is an excusable addition, especially compared to removing/reducing ways for any champion to access true damage. They're reserving true damage for the champions and situations that really deserve it and making it less common across the board.
That IS curbing it.
Ragnaveil7 votesLets not forget she already gets armor and magic resist shred from her q. The true damage is unnecessary on this kit.
Daddy Ants7 votesArmor and MR shred means her team will do more damage to the targets affected also.
Deliberate Inter6 votesCho gath has a true damage ult, by your logic it should be used on the enemy braum.
darkdill12 votesCho'gath's ult isn't ranged, and it's single target. Kayle's is an AOE effect that's ranged, and she still can make someone invulnerable (including herself).
Deliberate Inter3 votesNo, Cho Gath ult does have a little range and is arguably stronger than the new kayle ult. And yes, that invulnerability is arguably the only reason Kayle is going to be C tier and not D tier.
darkdill7 votesWhen I said ranged, I meant something beyond 300 range. Cho'gath's Feast might have slightly more than melee reach, but I still wouldn't call it ranged.
Anime Fizz5 votesShe really didnt need it at all, just overloading as usual on new reworks.
Her ult also didnt need an aoe nuke into it aswell.
Infernape3 votesShe was already a tank killer. She basically has both a free Black Cleaver and Wit's End for a passive, which has now been moved to her Q.
Now she didn't need the true damage on top of everything else. Especially considering she's STILL going to buy Guinsoo's.
xDogMeatx3 votesthat skin tight suit really releases her power doesnt it at lvl 16.
Saianna3 votesRiots team that decides on games future totally doesn't get the idea of powercreep. Eh I so wish i had such an easy job.
Jerry SeinfeId1 votesthat's gonna be another tank-killer in the roster
Old Kayle literally shreds the shit outta everyone tanks or squishies alike. She always has, she shreds armor and mr on live. which she seems to have lost. so you lose a tank killer and gain a tank killer.
Infernape4 votesShe hasn't. The armour and MR shred was moved to her Q.
She has both the shred and true damage.