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Skarner's current state and his future as a champion

Malicious Metal··69 votes·8,297 views

It's been a while since Riot talked about Skarner but I feel I have to bring him up once more seeing that he still is one of my absolute favorite champions despite me no longer being able to play him in the current Jungle. Skarner has been through a lot of reworks in his time as a champion, almost as many as Ryze and that's saying something! He had: -A heal on E -Massive AS/MS boost on his W -A passive that reduced the CD's of ALL his spells when he AA'd -A passive where he applied stacks of Venom on his enemies he could proc a Stun with -A PERMASLOW on his Q And much more

Simply by looking at what he HAD it's easy to see that he has always been intended as a FIGHTER and not a Vanguard as Riot tries to promote him as in the future. While his Title may be the "Crystal Vanguard" we're not balancing Sion as the "Undead Juggernaut" but I'm digressing.

In the wake of the Juggernaut rework Skarner got a slew of changes, most of them simply revolving around his Spires, checkpoint-like structures he needs to control in order to get the full value of his kit since most of his MS and AS bonuses are only present in those Zones.

It's a weird mechanic that shouldn't really have been added but today I'm not here to argue about his passive but about his BASE kit, or rather why Skarner never managed to be a popular/well designed champion in the entirety of his existence as a champion It's rather easy: His skills are all spammable, usually low impact and VERY binary....

The entirety of his damage comes from him effectively using item 3057 , which is usually the only mandatory item in his build. His entire play style is so bloody binary that if you aren't fed or have your summoner 4 up it's really easy to just avoid facing Skarner, rendering him useless. He relies on getting into Melee range and just spamming his spells without any real decision making involved.

Even the "iconic" part of his kit, his Impale, is so un-intuitive and boring that it's almost sad to look at his kit. He suffers from not having any really satisfying aspects rather than maybe having lockdown for that slippery champion.

he lacks agenda, he lacks meaningful counterplay or ways to OUTPLAY, he lacks DEPTH and he really should get a VGU down the line that addresses just that.

But how do you achieve the goal of making him interactive while still pleasing Skarner mains? Well, first of all get rid of his Spires and the notion that he should be a TANK

Skarner players have always been really fond of his play style of running down the enemy as a crystal scorpion! You're this ancient creature coming for them, not some bulky tank. His motions are swift and precise, he's got a vicious combat style but with the wisdom of countless millennia. He should be a damage threat!

So, which Subclass fits him best? Honestly, and please, hear me out first, it's one of a #Diver

Why you'd ask? Simple! A Diver is a TANKY melee champion who dives for the enemy backline, trying to secure high priority targets and lock them down long enough to either kill them himself or make his team collapse on them. Skarner's fantasy as a champion has always been one of being the Crystal Scorpion who'll hunt you down and make you feel his sting!

Ridding him off almost EVERY single one of his base skills and building him up to fit that fantasy would be the best thing one could possibly do for him as he could finally live up to his Thematic and deliver a fun, interactive and deep gameplay experience.

Just imagine this, and please, keep in mind that I'm not a gameplay designer...

It's the mid game, you're starting to group up but for some reason your ADC is trailing off in the Jungle, be it for getting that Gromp and buy his sixth IE or just to spite your jungler. Suddenly something emerges from the Jungle, breaking out in an explosion of Sand as SKARNER digs his way through the ground, lunging for your ADC.

They'd scream but as soon as they'd try to retaliate he'd harden his hide and raise his massive claws to reflect incoming fire, his onslaught unable to be halted as he closes the gap. Powerful claws lash out at your ADC as you hear the sound of bones snapping, only to see the glimmer of a crystalline Stinger flashing... And then... Silence...

Skarner's lore already portrays this really well. Skarner is not a low-damage champion. He's the strongest of his kind, both in cunning and brawn.

He can easily tear a grown human to shreds with his powerful claws, cast crystalline magic due to his Heartstone, burrow through sand. He's a real SCORPION; He's evolved to survive in the hazardous desert, with venomous stinger, durable shell and fast limbs to carry him over the scorching hot sand.

He should get a kit to reflect his fantasy as a champion by giving him: A) High impact, satisfying skills B) More depth to his gameplay and ways to formulate strategies beyond just running at the enemy C) Reduce the amount of binary aspects of his kit, let him have ways to be counter played but offer a lot of ways for Skarner to make plays himself D) Let him still play similar by still making him focus on getting to high priority targets and sink his stinger into their flesh

And finally, UTILIZE what you're given! He's a CRYSTAL SCORPION for crying out loud. Give him a venomous sting, give him the skittish, high damage, fast paced play style similar to a Scorpion hunting, give him a kit that reflects his Themes and modernize it to fit into current league!

Skarner's main problem was never his power as he's always hovered around 52% win rate but just how unintuitive and frankly, boring, his kit can be at times. He's got so much untapped potential and he could really benefit from Riot just taking a good long look at him and finally giving him a kit to reflect the character he already is in Lore and Character!

http://lkimg.zamimg.com/assets/000/002/775.jpg

74 Comments

WoonStruck23 votes

I don't like the spires, but they did solve some issues with him that would, at the very least, need to be addressed with any new rework that wasn't a MASSIVE overhaul.

  • He was either way too mana hungry in the jungle, or basically didn't have mana costs. No in between.

  • He either cleared the jungle way too easily and steamrolled champions as well or couldn't function in the jungle. No in between.

Spires DID successfully address that, but they're more of a band-aid and they just end up feeling like an arbitrary, unsatisfying mechanic. Annoying to deal with for both teams.

Also, yes he should be modernized.

BastionKross5 votes

The spire mechanic had good intentions, but ended up with having picking Skarner tantamount to making SR into a "capture the point" gamemode for everyone. It's fine if a champion has a minigame, and it's also fine to include other champs in the minigame, but when it changes the strategic landscape of the map to include them it's too much.

Capturing a spire for either team is free vision. I would relate them to scuttle crab or vision plants with how big on an impact they can have.

50000000000000001 votes

It grants vision only briefly though. You can't even see them if they're on top of it, until they capture it.

WoonStruck1 votes

You can see if someone is capturing it though, which makes it like vision plants.

Its actually BAD to take vision plants unless the enemy already knows where you are because it gives away your position.

Same with Skarner spires. Its only advantageous to take them if you have so much map dominance that it doesn't matter. If you're behind as Skarner, you're forced to take them, which is negative because it gives away your position, which makes it harder to make a play and also tells people where you are so they can hunt you down.

Phoenix Kotori 8 votes

Eh even if it did address his mana issues, I still feel like this version is far less healthy and interesting than the Crystal Venom was it felt the most fair and right of all the versions I played of skarner (he was my 1st jungler back in S1), and I think either looking to make him more of a damage threat or towards what made the Crystal Venom version liked by skarners players is a good idea where to start on him.

WoonStruck1 votes

Crystal Venom was no doubt more interesting, but it also made him extremely feast/famine. If anything was even remotely mobile, Skarner did not function against it.

Skarner having ramping power is a good direction, but having his CC attached to it is not, IMO.

Aptest9 votes

let's play a game.

to begin with, what is the core gameplay theme that skarner should have, as a champion? is he supposed to be a hunter? an ambusher? a chaser? a stalker?

Is he supposed to jump on his pray (kahzix)? or chase him down (udyr)? or ambush them (twitch)? or trap them (taliah)?

Or is he a warrior? is he supposed to ensnare his opponent (elise)? or debuff them (nunu)? or overpower them with might (darius)? our outplay them by creating and exploiting moments of power (riven)?

is he a rampaging ball of collateral damage (Reksai)? or a precise fighter (fiora?)

Is he possessive of his allies (lulu)? terrible to his opponents (syndra)?

Is he a roamer (shyvana) or is he territorial (teemo)?

Is he an auto attack right clicker (irelia)? or a spell slinger (ekko)?

This is not an "all of the above" question. Which power fantasies are appropriate for skarner?

EDIT:

Personally I do not see skarner as a diver. Mostly because I don't see any burst traversal skills that really fit his theme. Specifically I do not see burst tunneling as something that fits skarner thematically and also it's Reksai's skill now.

I do see skarner with a burrowing skill. But I feel it should be something more akin to teemo's passive: a stationary passive for ambushing and trapping.

PaffWasTaken2 votes

Skarner never had anything like a "core gameplay". Hell, he has/had Ad and Ap scaling, AoE, very Heavy CCs, movement speed buffs, disabling, clearing potential, boosted auto attacks, reduceable cooldowns, shields,light poke, and more.

He was a perfect mix of every roles, in the meta he once been a DIVER, a jungle roamer, a chaser, an hybrid, an assassin, an ambusher... He've been ANYWHERE he could've been in the game, if you don't think so: remember that presently he is more turret-defense than Heimerdinger HIMSELF.

So, among all the gameplay styles he could have, skarner really has his place into the most versatile one for any fighters: DIVER The proof, that sublass includes: Vi XinZhao Nocturne Pantheon JarvanIV MonkeyKing Warwick Renekton Elise Hecarim LeeSin Irelia Aatrox Evelynn Diana All of those have very very high versatility, like hybrid scalings added with tankiness predisposal. And, pretty much all over those champs, Skarner was pretty much the one who defined the genre before getting messed too often

50000000000000002 votes

I think it's fair to say his ultimate is a big part of his core gameplay.

PaffWasTaken1 votes

Today when his whole utility is to take dragon and ult ADCs, yes When he couldve stun the whole team just by proccing his q almost instantly and just AA people to death with mixed damage, no

Aptest1 votes

the way I see things is this: Reksai took your spot.

considering that you can't have the amalgamation of every diver in the game only more strong and more versatile, what do you leave out?

first question: all divers have "reach skills" that allow them to catch up to targets. usually we are talking about a dash of some sort, but some other divers have other skills like eve's camo.

what do you see Skarner using, and why?

PaffWasTaken1 votes

He has a speed boost on his w (now, he even has one procced by his passive either by stunning or being near beacon), a slow on E, and he was basically the Creator of the "dive the ADC and kill him" since his whole ult was SOLELY used on that in good ol'days. A diver needs to get in fast: Skarner can do so, the only difference is that classic divers gets in, does as much damage possible and then team comes support. For skarner, he rampaged everyone with his almost instant Q, tanked everything with his shield, ulted the marksmen, and bring it to it's unevitable death. Then, he would just proc his passive out off everyone

Skarner created the Diver gameplay style, even Warwick at this time was more considered as Something more comparable to a jungle Olaf of today. It's normal to see the Diver type more defined by Something in the lines of Rek'Sai or Irelia, but back at the day where skarner was considered "hard to master/high profits", what we considered a diver wasn't what we expect presently

So, to be short: Skarner was THE diver back in his viability days but today, and i agree with you, he is very far from that same image of the role, so what he needs is an actualisation to either break once again the Diver Meta, or to be exclusively part of it*[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]*

Predatorator8 votes

It's a very good read, and i find myself comfortable to relate to what you said, but sadly there won't a be a full vgu to address all of that for a long time (he's low on the vgu list). 9 months ago there was the intention to lessen the dependence between him and his spires, but then nothing. silence. which is rather unfair.

I'm so into this because as i always managed to make skarner work through all of his iteration, from late s4 (now i got 356k mastery points) till the start of this season. What makes me keep playing him is the fact that i have to work to chase and stick on my targets, and it satisfies me so much when i manage to do so. but now i'm actually struggling, the spires are so unconfortable to play around, but also are so important in order to achieve your full potential. Also there is very little mastery bound to his kit, as to me the only major mastery you have to achieve with skarner is to know your matchups, and positioning comes as a byproduct of that.

don't get me wrong, i appreciate that repertoir wanted to add depht to skarner gameplay, but the way it was handled is actually really poor.

Edited for clarifications

Variks the Loyal6 votes

I agree mostly, but I disagree in that he should be a Diver. I feel Juggernaut is the perfect identity for Skarner. He's not just a Crystal Scorpion barreling down towards you; he's a giant crystal scorpion barreling down towards you.

Juggernauts seem to come in two types. The extremely slow, durable, and high damage colossi - Darius DrMundo Mordekaiser Nasus Trundle

And then there's 'run down' Juggernauts. They have high movement speed and are made solely to run down an enemy and kill them when they reach them Udyr Volibear Olaf Garen

Skarner should fall into that later category. I love Skarner's playstyle; even now, the Spires don't bother me, they just don't play much into how I play. I don't necessarily try to bait enemies into them, but I always fight in them when possible. If you hit the enemy with E, you proceed to run them down and rip them to pieces with Triforce, or drag them back into your team with Impale.

He's always been this tanky duelist that few people could fight 1v1, because his damage was so high. That's what a Juggernaut is. I think the 'Diver' fantasy you're referencing fits much better for Rek'Sai than Skarner. As Skarner, I want to harden my skin, charge forward, and reach my selected enemy and drag them down into hell.

majulito4 votes

Honestly I think the spires are dumb and has a jungler all it does is either give your position if you take one or goes unused when you need it most ganking lanes interacting with the enemy.I liked the version of him prior where he could stun you with an aa if he hit you with 3 abilities it was useful for clearing and fighting champs. He was rewarded for sticking to you one of his biggest weaknesses.

Glitzeregenbogen2 votes

The Skarner topic is a little difficult imo.

I agree the spires are pretty meh, even Riot agreed on that sometime ago. They don't really bring that much to a match. So there is something that could be improved.

But, Skarner is doing fine. His winrates are good. So he has the same problem as Eve has, not all that tricky to play, but effective, at least in soloq. That means while he may be on Riot's radar, he is not high priority.

That being said, I like the abduction thing he has going on. Seems pretty scorpiony(scorpionesc? scorpionic?). I also think he is satisfying to play, ghosting out of a bush snagging that slippery champion your team struggles to pin down? Me gusta.

So over all I don't really know, the spires are pretty meh but the rest seems okay to me.

Forhonor3212 votes

My main issue with him at the moment is that he just doesn't feel satisfying to play, mostly in how he has to play around his spires. Yes someone below pointed out that it solves some of his issues or either being too powerful or too damn weak, but the thing is I don't like the concept of fighting around these things like a damn mini-game in an actual game. On top of that, outside of the jungle they're worthless, other than trying to keep control over the ones at Baron and Drag.

But my biggest issue with him at the moment is that it just feels like he lacks clarity. He was updated in the Juggernaut rework, but now Riot is clarifying him as a Vanguard (no idea when this happened), feels like a fighter but plays more like a tank, I just don't know what to make of him. He almost seems like one of the very few champs in the game that are either in the state of ball-busting broken or down the gutter worthless, but as he is right now he just feels forgotten because no one wants to play him as he is now.

SociopathFriend2 votes

I kinda like Skarner's current kit. Maybe people don't like the spires as is but I think the idea holds potential. The rest of his abilities work fine for their purpose. Q- AoE damage on a short cooldown to give him teamfight presence W- Shield plus a movement speed buff E- Slow that allows him to stun an opponent if he catches them R- Good old Skarner, stab em and haul em kicking and screaming towards your team

Skarner has never struck me as a "Fast" champion. Instead he sounds like a Juggernaut, this never-ending chaser who will pursue his opponent to the ends of the Earth to get at them. He also has quite a bit of a protector in him- withstanding blows meant for his allies and being able to pull literally anyone away from something he cares about.

Personally, I think a good fix would be to give Skarner a item 3599 . Obviously not the same item- but a one-time consumable that allows him to place a spire wherever he wants and get the appropriate bonuses when he's near it.

You can have enemies turn it off by standing on it, same as normal, or perhaps they have to inflict a certain amount of damage on it within a short timeframe to turn it off for a period of time. But it presents interesting options to Skarner himself.

Does he place it in his jungle immediately to assist in clearing? Does he pop it in a lane to make ganking easier for that specific lane? Or maybe even to psyche his opponents out? Does he keep it near a key objective like Dragon or Baron? Losing out on his kill-pressure in lanes and his jungle clear to have an easier time securing the big boys?

Velzard of Koz2 votes

we're not balancing Sion as the "Undead Juggernaut" but I'm digressing.

To be honest shouldn't he have his ult and Q-knockup, Sion IS Juggernaut by kit.

50000000000000002 votes

That's 2/4 spells, though. His passive makes him into a juggernaut, but while he's alive he's a full on Vanguard, imo.

Velzard of Koz1 votes

I'd count spells as 5 since Passive can have huge impact on one's role and class.

However I am intrigued by fact you mark him as Vanguard? If I would have to mark him as Tank, I'd consider him Warden more, since his slow and knock-up can be very disrupting towards enemy attempts to dive backline. He is way too engaging for that, but to be honest, so is Poppy and she is Vanguard. And Vanguards must have tools to get in, which Sion only has as ult. True, Malph also has his ult as only effective engager, however Malph is at least connected to Armor within his kit pointing him to Tank.

The reason why Sion smells Juggernautish to me is because I see quite a lot similarities to Morde in him. Poppy, Shen, Sejuani, Amumu - all these cause me much fear because they can easily end up at my ass. Sion doesn't scare me that much since he seems much more kiteable.

I'd close this up with it being really just how I feel about him and that there seems to me be lack of things that would fully distinguish certain classes and subclasses from one another. however official version is on your side as he's stated as Tank Vanguard.

50000000000000001 votes

I think his kit has too much CC for a fighter. I would definitely consider him a tank. Maybe he's a vanguard/warden hybrid? His low cooldown AoE knockup/slow would make him a decent peel tank.

It is true that he's very slow though. But even if he gets close, he can't really kill people easily, so I don't think he's a fighter.

SinofAtlas2 votes

To be perfectly honest, please don't judge. A rework on him that would have fit his playstyle would have been great.

Get rid of the spires go back to his old passive. Or maybe a Point Runner passive type thing. Q hitting them with a ranged ability then hitting them aplies the 3 hit stun. W should totally have been a shield that acts like Karma's. It would scale off ap and allow for him to not really need to be a tank, he could walk in with shield and increased MS grab the back line with r, call it good. E empowered autos that also increase AS. R more or less stays the same.

That is more or less just just the bare minimum. It'd make his kit more useable and seemless instead of clunky and having not much work together.

metalhydra2732 votes

Unpopular opinion but as a skarner main I actually like they way his kit is right now. He finally has reliable cc outside of ult rather than having to build it up. I honestly like the juggernaut approach as it makes playing him feel like you're playing as an giant unstoppable scorpion like it should. He is also rather speedy allowing you to use his tankiness to try and dive the opponents. Though you kinda have to rely on flash to make plays with your ult and e or try to flank the enemy. The spires make his clears a lot easier and deter counter jungling from the enemy which is nice since he used to always struggle so hard against it. But I'm welcome to changes as I'm sure there can be a better way to make him have more depth and still be the unstoppable menace he is.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=223Ec2zd,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-01-21T11:43:28.052+0000)

It's been a while since Riot talked about Skarner but I feel I have to bring him up once more seeing that he still is one of my absolute favorite champions despite me no longer being able to play him in the current Jungle.

I guess you're in EUW so I can see how you feel that way, but look at this (op.gg since Riot confirms their stats are fairly accurate): http://euw.op.gg/champion/skarner/statistics/jungle vs http://na.op.gg/champion/skarner/statistics/jungle

So Skarner has nearly a 50% win rate in EUW. That's not great but it's AVERAGE. That should mean he's fine - he's not in an awful spot like you're implying. Maybe his playstyle is boring, but that's your preference - there are clearly people who enjoy playing him.

Now in NA? He's the 3rd highest win rate jungler. Seriously.

He works somewhere. Either NA laners don't play as well against him, or NA junglers are better at Skarner. Either way - I think the champion is in a successful spot - I see no reason for changes to him right now (and nerfs if anything).

And with his ultimate, he's clearly got to be a tank. That ability on a Diver would be bonkers. If Skarner dealt real damage he'd be as broken as Poppy.

Stendeval3 votes

Why does a 50% win rate imply enjoyment while playing?

DeusVult1 votes

Only mandatory item in his build

item 3800 HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHA

summoner 6 HAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH

Gotta go fast

Make a red skarner skin

DeusVult2 votes

But his passive needs to be changed, out of all the jungle type passives, (Rengar Kindred Ivern etc) Skarner is the most useless, because the enemy team has too much counter-play, if skarner falls behind he is done, and outside of the jungle, he has no passive. And it really doesn't even apply to the whole jg (you can get it for doing gromp, but not krugs)

Spires show where skarner is in the jg even if you have no vision of him, unlike kindred passive. They need to be changed

PaffWasTaken1 votes

I miss the time when skarner was reputed as the holder of "the longest time being the best winrate ever" record. Now noboddy even remember what was his kit pre-juggernaut. I always wanted to see skarner as a full Hybrid between AD and AP. He always had both scalings but those were never focused on pure damage. I would like Something like giving back his original Crystal Venom, but tweaking some things with it and his w:

Passive: Crystal core

Passive1: Every time Skarner damages an enemy with PHYSICAL DAMAGE, he applies 1 stack of "Crystal corruption" to the enemy, up to 5. When he auto-attacks an enemy with at least 3 of those stacks, the target is stunned for 2 to 4 seconds (depending on how much stacks were applied) and gains the debuff Crystalizedfor 5 seconds. Crystalized enemies takes bonus MAGIC DAMAGE from Skarner.

Passive2: Every time Skarner damages an enemy with MAGIC DAMAGE, he applies Crystal Venom for 5 seconds (doubled if the venom is applied on a crystalized target). Envenomed enemies takes lingering damage, scaling from both Ad and Ap. They also received increased damage from Skarner's basic attacks

W: Earth-bond predator

Active: Skarner becomes camouflaged and gains bonus movement speed. After receiving any source of damage, the original buff disapears and Skar-Skar-SKARNER gains a shield based on what type of damage he received. After his shield is dispelled, he gains the buff exposed origins, which replaces the debuff effects from either Passive1 or 2 (Passive 1 if a physical shield was used, or passive 2 if it was a magic one) to armor/magic resist stealing

That would add a lot of depth into his gameplay, like stratégies, combos or priorities, while making him feel like an adaptable diver. Adding some other tweaks to his Q, E and R would be awesome too, but my fingers are sleepy ¯_(ツ)_/¯

To get an overrall idea on how I would like his kit and gameplay to look like, please look at this vietnam flashbacks good ol' boss from The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vL54j1gEkw0

zorlox771 votes

Hehe. I got that skar-skar-SKARNER reference.

I like the idea of the passive to make having different damage types have interesting effects, but I don't know if I like the idea of camouflage. To me Skarner seems like if he were chasing you he wouldn't be very sneaky about it. Maybe if he unburrowed from the ground I could see stealth work out for him, but otherwise I don't think it fits him all that well. I like the idea of stealing resistances though.

PaffWasTaken1 votes

The whole idea of the camouflage is to go with the shield idea: if a skarner just comes into your lane, you just either wait for his W to wear out while ccing him, or just safely flee, making his whole shield capacity unviable. Now, if he is stealthed or comes out of nowhere, the enemy dosen't know what to do and défends themselves, thus giving him his buff. The whole idea of this is to be, like OP mentioned, more in the lines of an actual scorpion with the surprise effect.

For the camouflage idea, you are right, burrowing Under the earth and then coming out would be cool for him, but too similar to Rek'Sai...

But you gave me that idea, that I consider as an even cooler compromise: Instead of gaining camouflage, he gains heavily increased movement speed while heading towards walls and ignores them, digging and finally bursting through them like nothing?! When he heads out of his newly dug tunnel in a lane, he yells "skar skar SKARNEEEERRRR (obviously). For every meters of tunnels dug, he gains (1-...) stack of Crystal minerals, which he can uses while double casting his E to BUILD WALLS

Now thats some Skarner action I ABSOLUTELY want to see someday: http://i.giphy.com/1sFjMT8bk61by.gif http://i.giphy.com/HP5dest4oOHf2.gif

N Komaeda1 votes

Wowowwowowowowowowow.

First of all: MM not making a Morde post? Is the end approaching? (I know why you don't)

Second: Skarner ain't all that bad. Sure, in the current meta, you wouldn't prefer him over any other jungler that's meta right now, e.g. Lee Sin, Vi, Hecarim etc. His problem solely relies on that his dueling potential is only present in his Shrines, thus you'd rather farm than gank... But that's exactly the opposite of the current meta's strenght. You want to be able to gank often and hard, so your lanes get snowballin'.

Also, they should kinda remove the "oh you just claimed your shrine at your blue buff so we're gonna 3 man catch you and ascend bestiality into oblivion hurr durr" Really bugs me.

Tychusfindlay9194 votes

[{quoted}](name=N Komaeda,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=223Ec2zd,comment-id=001b,timestamp=2017-01-22T01:35:01.856+0000)

Wowowwowowowowowowow.

First of all: MM not making a Morde post? Is the end approaching? (I know why you don't)

Second: Skarner ain't all that bad. Sure, in the current meta, you wouldn't prefer him over any other jungler that's meta right now, e.g. Lee Sin, Vi, Hecarim etc. His problem solely relies on that his dueling potential is only present in his Shrines, thus you'd rather farm than gank... But that's exactly the opposite of the current meta's strenght. You want to be able to gank often and hard, so your lanes get snowballin'.

Also, they should kinda remove the "oh you just claimed your shrine at your blue buff so we're gonna 3 man catch you and ascend bestiality into oblivion hurr durr" Really bugs me.

This is hardly the first time MM has made a non huekaiser post.

He usually makes posts about "forgotten" champs like Karthus, Vladimir (before vladimir blew up with the rework and even after), and I'm pretty sure this isn't his first skarner thread. He has a thing for older champions that Riot forgets about I think. I don't blame him, a lot of them still hold some of the most unique and yet non-complicated kits in the game, and rarely is an older champion ever found with an overloaded ass kit. Mordekaiser is one of the few champs who has a ton of extra in his kit, but it's in the form of passives that you almost never notice like his W experience thing. His actual kit itself isn't too complicated at all.

N Komaeda1 votes

Yeah, I know that he doesn't only make Mordekaiser posts. Hence the "I know why you don't."

Overall, I enjoy his posts. Not (specifically) because of the person who made it, but they're generally well formed. They're broken up not to be a wall of text, the information and motives are clear and they're enjoyable to read.

PROJECT Katarìna1 votes

I loved old skarner so much because of how tanky I could be and grab an oppenent for my teamates to focus down a carry, but right now atm I dont like how he is so spire reliant to win fights or be useful and how his stun is on his E that is a slow narrow skillshot that does less dmg and slower speed per enemy hit.

Silven1 votes

I didn't like the spire change mainly because it felt like it gated Skarner's fighting ability to the zones. You used to be able to pick a brawl with anyone no matter where but after the changes it felt like you could only really 1v1 people if you were in your own cozy spot of the jungle. Which tended to make him weaker in lane.

Variks the Loyal1 votes

I have to deviate from most people for a second; I've never felt confined to the spires. I've never felt like I was at a disadvantage because I was fighting elsewhere, outside of them. That doesn't mean Skarner can lane (Not by a long shot), but it's just my opinion.

That doesn't make the spires better, though. They're a flawed concept. Probably cool on paper, but flawed. He's either only useful in the spires, which makes him much weaker overall, or he's perfectly fine outside of the spires, and if so, then what's the point of them?

I like the way he plays currently, if it's any consolation. They could keep his current kit and remove the spires, replacing them with a different passive, and I would hardly notice.

Apollogy1 votes

I tried him in lane one time...

I was winning for a while because I was a better laner... But then my enemy released I do negative damage...

That was a bad game, :(

hotarse1 votes

How about this for a passive. I like the idea of defending territory, but not the idea that someone can just walk up and stand for a couple seconds and undo your work, forcing you to stand around again. It feels so inefficient, and indeed, boring to stand around at spires.

Lets break up the map into 6 quadrants (bot mid and top for each team) , covering the whole map. Each quadrant gives you a bonus based on what you've done inside that quadrant, giving you more reason to make one section of the map your "home" and work around that. Jungle monster kills give small bonuses, minion kills small to medium bonuses, and champion kills give pretty big bonuses. Once a quadrant reaches a certain threshold, the quadrant grows and spills over into adjacent quadrants, extending your bonuses further on the map. I'd like bonuses to include move speed and bonuses to abilities (one really cool one would be to add mini blinks pulsing throughout his movespeed ability to give him that skittish feel).

But visibility? How will people figure out which quadrant is providing what bonuses? Easy. Skarner grows in size as his bonuses grow. See a big skarner? Well, he must be getting some bonuses. Also, just pay attention to his actions. Did he get a kill in bot lane? Well, that quadrant now is giving him significant bonuses.

But counterplay? The obvious counterplay would be to stay away from dangerous quadrants. The not as obvious counterplay would be to focus on the dangerous quadrant, warding it well, and taking teleport to counter potential hasty engages by the scorpion. Obviously, we can also do something where Skarner loses some of his bonuses if he dies, or bonuses to a quadrant he dies in.

TwitchInMyPants1 votes

I don't like labeling Skarner as a diver given he's as much of a diver as someone like Olaf. He's destructive, tanky, and super short range. Diving is something you can itemize for but I find the fantasy of Skarner is tearing through people while hunting your enemies down, dragging them to your doom. I think the live E is a great version of it, a piddly heal on smack wasn't very high impact follow up and it rewards divey play. His R has stayed the same since its his defining skill and is balanced around running at your opponent and scales on your speed.

His Q and W are apt for change, but W should always be movement with durability and Q should always be a damage skill. They could do something like Rengar's Q instead of a spam button and I'd be happy, but his cc defines the impact he has on a fight. Finding opportunites to flash, pull, and tear a squishy apart is what makes me love Skarner when hes good.

Edit: To clarify a bit, when I think Diver I think someone meant to run straight into your team really efficiently with disregard. Think Vi, Zac, Hecarim, Rammus. I think of gameplay like Singed's as Diving though I don't think that's his primary role as much as he is a disruptor. Skarner is more about the chase and the impact you have once you are given a chance to dive.

Dominick Destine1 votes

New hyper-specialized subcategory titles are unnecessary at best.... and hyper pretentious at worst.

Nightmist Dark1 votes

As a loyal Skarner only main, since late S2, I'm looking forward for the upcoming changes that repertoir and folks said they had planned for Skarner. Possibly for the divers update or even sooner than that.

Rune Keg1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nightmist Dark,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=223Ec2zd,comment-id=0023,timestamp=2017-01-22T08:53:32.445+0000)

As a loyal Skarner only main, since late S2, I'm looking forward for the upcoming changes that repertoir and folks said they had planned for Skarner. Possibly for the divers update or even sooner than that.

Oh? I didn't know they said they had updates planned for him. Are they supposed to be like the rek'sai changes they're working on atm?

Nightmist Dark1 votes

There's a thread from a few months ago where repertoir and meddler were experimenting some changes, where they say they will share with us, but so far they haven't said a single word.

But in that post they said spires wont go away and that they were trying to:

-- reduce spire player interaction. -- possibly less spire dependency. -- spires no longer showing on the mini-map. -- possibly other unmentioned changes.

MorganFreemanBot1 votes

I've liked all of your posts about Morde, MM, but I heavily disagree with this.

I played Skarner extensively back in s2, and also a fair bit in s3 (but slowly stopped due to him being unbearably weak). I do not agree with literally anything you've said.

I don't want Skarner to be some lean diver, I love him as a big and beefy tank. I personally really loved the idea of him being inescapable 8 limbed death. A thrashing ball of impenetrable crystals and slicing claws which was menacing not because of obscene burst, but because of being a massive disruption. A disruption which, if left unchecked / allowed to reach a carry, would drag them kicking and screaming to an untimely demise.

Cyber HeroXL1 votes

he seems to have alot of the same problems as Sona. been kinda unhealthy her whole life, overeliance on sheen, her ult is effective but very meh, her base kit is just mindless key spam especially with crescendo's new passive. I've decided to post a WIP rework for her because i know she has so much potential for coolness and I want for people to realize this.

L Rayquaza1 votes

Literally my only problem is the Spires, I played him top lane and I can't do that any more without losing a nice chunk of my stats

AtheosisX1 votes

Just the thought that a scorpion shouldn't be a damage-heavy champ is weird to me. Skarner feels like a champ that Riot just doesn't have a clear vision on.

Hexs Fortune1 votes

Sion SHOULD be a juggernaut. His dialogue fits that theme better than a tank

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