Items, Preseason 5 - Season 5

Hoi Im Temmo·Aug 1, 2014·3 votes·993 views

Disclaimer: I hope I put this in the right spot, as a Gameplay thread.

This is not to theory craft items, or suggest changes to current ones. This is your opinions on what items are missing. No need to right out stats/build orders/etc. I'm looking for opinions on what Riot should look into making. A few threads have said things like more spell vamp; better top lane items and diversity, especially vs AP; and looked into items that are just out dated.

Post thoughts, and maybe name some items that need some love.

24 Comments

Phoenix Kotori Aug 1, 20143 votes

item 3035 item 3135 need changes to be somehow less "this item lets me do more damage vs everyone" and more "I want to buy this item because the enemy is tanky and/or stacking resistances."

Hoi Im TemmoAug 2, 20144 votes

Yeah. It's to the point that not building them is wrong, almost by default.

LunermistAug 1, 20142 votes

Cough, Cough, Leviathan, Cough, Cough,

Hoi Im TemmoAug 1, 20141 votes

lol, yes please. Heart of Gold too

CISTERNNov 17, 20142 votes

We need defensive multipliers on items like 30% more armor or mr

FlyntlochAug 1, 20141 votes

I could seriously go for a AP version of Quicksilver Sash.

Hoi Im TemmoAug 2, 20141 votes

I have always felt that NO item should have exactly one item it can build into. Forget jsut an AP version, we need more things built from Sash in general (though an AP would be nice)

MrBuffingtonAug 1, 20141 votes

Doran's Cloak would be nice.

Hoi Im TemmoAug 2, 20141 votes

I don't know...the doran items in generally provide great early game, with diverse stats - but it kinda irks me that I can't build anything with them. Further, thinking that one starting directly counters another isn't quite their purpose. Doran's Shield, for example, isn't a counter to Doran's blade: You have AP, AD, and Tank - each of these has an item. Doran's cloak isn't just "Tank"....its "Anti-AP Tank"

MrBuffingtonAug 2, 20141 votes

I don't think the point is to have counters, the point is to have decent starting items for different situations. The thing about Doran's shield is that it only works (or works best) against champions that will auto attack you a lot (which is why top lane usually goes cloth 5 vs champions that use more abilities against you, like Renekton or Garen). In that way, Doran's shield isn't "tank", it's more "anti-auto-attack tank". If you want to build tank against any other type of damage (AD spells or AP spells), you're going to have to go for something else. AD spells are usually melee, which means you usually won't get as much harass, but AP spells are often ranged, meaning you're probably going to take a lot more harass, especially if you're a melee champion.

Hoi Im TemmoAug 2, 20141 votes

Well, which champions might build it and against who?

I tend to play non-meta champs (though I do main top) with the ones I play most being Mundo, Teemo, Sion, and Garen, in that order.

For Mundo, I build ruby and 2; Sion, Sword and 3; Garen, doran and 1; and for teemo, it varies, but usually either ring and 2 or tome and 1.

So, with that said, I don't have a good handle on where this would be useful. Could you add some context of when and why?

MrBuffingtonAug 2, 20141 votes

A few of the dominant champions in top lane right now are Gragas, Lulu, Nidalee, and Maokai (not sure about solo Q, but he has been seeing LCS play). All of these champions deal a lot of magic damage (even AD Nidalee, since all her spells deal magic damage) If you're playing an melee champion top, unless you have some way of harassing at range and trading, you're going to get poked down. Null magic mantle is the only MR item you can afford lvl 1, and you're probably not going to build it into anything early (if at all), also buying a negatron cloak early really slows down your build (unless you're Mundo or something, in which case you can probably just go for Spirit Visage).

Really the only reason I bring it up is because Doran's shield isn't a universal tank item, it's only efficient against champions that auto attack a lot and where you don't need the extra potions. Against AD champions you do have the option of going cloth 5, but vs AP champions, you can go null magic 2, but you're going to take more harass from these ranged AP champions and you only have two potions to deal with it. The only other options are going for like, Dorans blade 1 pot and hoping you can chunk them early so they're scared to go in on you, or go for something super defensive like flask 3 pots, and just hope you don't take a lot of harass and can freeze lane in front of your turret, probably have to rely on jungle help too.

Hoi Im TemmoAug 2, 20141 votes

Well, my break down for those mentioned goes as follows:

Gragas: Can be very annoying, but well-scaling tank or heavy dps can beat him (at least in my experience) Nidalee can be very difficult. The main thing is hide behind minions, and farm till your jungle gets nearby. Lulu: VERY annoying. Best option is to see if your mid can switch you i think XD other than that, counter play depends on the champion. Teemo can trade, and Mundo/garen can tank it. Sion shields and farms. (thats my situation, not sure about other champs) Maokai: havent played against it, but i have heard about it. Hard to tell. If he is just tossing saplings at you, try to stay on the move, and anticipate what he will do. Hide behind minions, and attack him when ever possible to try and bully him away from farm, giving you levels, and therefore, health advantage.

Thats all I got. I really feel like the only good MR items come from negatron, so that is one thing - we need better early MR!!!

MrBuffingtonAug 3, 20141 votes

that's exactly the problem, there aren't any good early MR items. I suppose there is some breathing room where most champions have some base MR, but still, an early negatron cloak really puts you behind in your build, if that item isn't part of a core item for you.

Hoi Im TemmoAug 3, 20141 votes

Depending on the champion, I suppose you could rush a hexdrinker... item 3155 but its not the best item ever or anything.

MrBuffingtonAug 3, 20141 votes

if anything i would go for merc treads for the tenacity, but I probably wouldn't complete it for a while. I just don't like how I get 5 pots with cloth armor and only 2 with null magic mantle, where I probably need more with the amount of harass I'll be taking from AP champions.

MrBuffingtonAug 13, 20141 votes

I was thinking that non-APC squishies lack an armor item. For example, if an ADC wants to build armor (for a defensive/sixth item), they really only have GA as an option, which, against an all AD team, seems inefficient since you're spending gold on MR that you don't need. Really, there's no Banshee's Veil equivalent, where it's just a solid defensive item that anyone can pick up; most armor items are there for you to sit in the middle of a team fight and soak damage/utilize the item's effects, like sunfire cape or randuins.

Hoi Im TemmoAug 14, 20141 votes

is a good point, though Thornmail is pretty efficient.

MrBuffingtonAug 14, 20141 votes

right, but thornmail works best if you're tanking the other ADC, that way the passive does damage to them; ADC typically doesn't tank enough damage to make thornmail that good, I think.

Hoi Im TemmoAug 14, 20141 votes

not about the damage. its about the 100 armor

MrBuffingtonAug 14, 20141 votes

Right, but I feel like at that point, you might as well save another 400 gold for a Frozen Heart; the extra stats may be more useful than the thornmail passive. Also, neither really give HP that allows you to use the resistances effectively, like Banshee's Veil gives you.

Hoi Im TemmoAug 14, 20141 votes

True....but even if it isn't a LOT of damage, Thornmail does still reflect damage.

MrBuffingtonAug 14, 20141 votes

haha, yea, I agree that thornmail or frozen heart are probably the best pure armor items for squishies, but that's sort of the problem; those items are built for tanks, squishies only get them since they have no other options (i mean, you can get a warmogs or something, but it doesn't help with resistances)

Hoi Im TemmoAug 14, 20141 votes

fair enough.