Lulu, A Disscussion

Hoi Im Temmo··4 votes·1,059 views

This thread was originally a QQ about Lulu, and my defense of it.

Instead, I feel I should be more beneficial to discussion on these threads, so - I have a serious problem with Lulu, specificically her current playstyle; she is NOT op, not in the usual since - she just creates a one sided lane with low counter play, and is simply not fun (to be against or to play as, in my own opinion).

I am going to present my opinion, and why, and then ask that you vote on agree/disagree, and in EITHER choice, explain why below for future readers.

Thanks for reading!

Lulu:

To start, I will go over each ability.

Passive: Pix - Basically, her attacks do more damage than yours. Almost period. And she is ranged. The maximum damage her ranged from 9-105 based on level plus an additional 15% of her ap. Every basic attack. So her harass is VERY strong, and generally will out trade you. But, that simply makes her strong, and she is certainly not the first annoying harass champ.

Q: Glitterlance - So we have minion penetrating, high base damage (level 1 = 80 + 50% AP) and an 80% slow, also at level 1. Remeber how she already trades better than you? Now its worse, plus she has good CC, that is fast and cannot be blocked (unless you happen to have a braum handy). At this point, a ranged champ MIGHT be able to still trade....but a melee champion without high mobility in the early game is basically going to be bullied out of lane without touching her, or die trying. Further, a bolt is fired by Pix as well, towards the cursor...more on this later.

W: Whimsy - Currently, a ranged champions would have a hard time trading well, and melee champs only hope is to get in close combat via high mobility engage. In both cases, any kind of suppression effect will end any hope of either of these succeeding. So her w is a targeted ability which prevents summoners, abilities, and attacks, as well as serves to be an additional slow. Or, if there is more than one attacker, a large speed boost and shield.

I have gone through the kit section i have the biggest problem with already, so a quick review. -Great harass. -Strong CC, and early damage -Free damage and more cc or free damage and an escape.

So, the rest of her kit:

E: Help, Pix! - I don't really have a problem with this ability, at all almost. Vision of enemy and some magic damage or damage buff and shield for an ally. Very supporting in feel, and play style, usually. But this ability matches her q for early damage, is not a skill shot, and one other thing....remember how Lulu's Q fires two bolts, one from her and one from pix? Pix follows you for the duration of this ability, meaning you CANNOT dodge a properly fired q.

R: I LOVE her ulti, and by far is one thing on her kit I would be sad to see go. That said: its a knickup that hits melee range, so its one more disengage against melee champions, who she ALREADY hoses. Its also a massive heal AND another slow, this one is AoE.

TL;DR

1)Lulu has better trading power than most other champions, and has it at range. 2)She has two slows, a knock up, and basically a suppress. 3)She creates a lane that is orientated toward avoiding and harassing the opponent, with no befit to actually engaging, and has the kit to maintain this without help. 4) All her damage amounts start high and get bigger. 5) The way riot tried to 'gate' her ability use, is not through high mana cost - but a low mana pool. Because tear of the godess cost lots of money.

9 Comments

NovemberrRose2 votes

i love when people com plain about a champ, only list their positives, and can't believe people dont agree with them.

Hoi Im Temmo1 votes

I apologize, but I don't really play Lulu. It would be a great help, probably not just to me, if you LISTED the negatives I missed, rather than passive aggressively use sarcasm to state you don't agree :/

Cu Sidhe2 votes

So this post will have no clear direction, just talking about Lulu from my time playing her.

As a Lulu support main I can agree her laneing is a bit out of hand. The issue is if they just straight up nerf her we run into the issue of making her a bad support. The last nerf that hit her W duration hit support Lulu slightly and Top Lulu hard imo. We see the effect though now that in a fight Polymorph will always be better than whimsy. I really only use Whimsy when roaming/returning to lane. Of course the occasional Hecarim gets a whimsy but aside from that the polymorph is much more useful.

The damage nerf on her E was also fine as I feel that ability is more for re-positioning Pix than damage, at least from a support perspective. I feel as though the E+Q combo is rewarding and shouldn't be changed as when you succeed you get a decent amount of poke but if you miss you just wasted a lot of mana on the E+Q and no longer have the shield component for the duration of the CD.

I'm not sure how to nerf Lulu in her current form without crippling her support. We're in a stage where poke loses to all in and poke loses to sustain and so Lulu in the support lane is mostly just keeping them off of you until team fights begin.

Speaking of which team fights is where I feel Lulu really shines. Her slows, polymorphs, and HUGIFIES! can really turn the outcome of a fight. She's very VERY strong there. As such, a polymorph to the Zed ulting your ADC (Of whom would have pix on him for the bonus damage/shield), a Wild Growth on the tank/initaitor and then Q-ing people trying to escape and Lulu can very easily turn a fight around if played correctly.

I feel a big issue is Chalice. It turns her high mana costs into not so much of an issue. Sure she will run out of mana if you spam but if you use your abilities correctly then you'll have enough mana for any situation.

Her kiting potential is too much. Granted as a support I'll never kill anyone but I can kite for days with the enemy having no hope unless they have a gap closer. Even then a Glitterlance and a Whimsy and I'm away. Maybe nerf the slow unless you hit both glitterlances on the target?

Anyway, I'd be perfectly fine for nerfs to her for her top lane but I would expect buffs for her supporting as she's received repeated nerfs so far with no compensation and is near the breaking point. Well, I'm over-exaggerating but we're certainly approaching it.

Hoi Im Temmo1 votes

I definitely agree with most of your comment! She is emphasized, I think as an aggressive support with good cc and interesting, fun abilities.

And you are right about the difficulty in nerfing her lane without nerfing support. Lowering her cc hurts her utility in bot, but lowering her damage makes her just a lot of cc.

TBones1 votes

Disagree.

She has a long base CD for her skills. And fairly high mana cost.

You don't always have to win your lane. Sometimes you gotta take Teleport instead of Ignite.

Hoi Im Temmo1 votes

Personally, I always take tele top. Makes for better lane dominance.

Ghiefelstein1 votes

I appreciate the time you took to make a constructive thread. I agree that Lulu in the top lane combines strong harass with safety, which is not a very healthy combination. However, I feel like that is less of a problem in the support role. CC is pretty common on supports and mana constraints do work in bot lane.

Riot originally allowed Lulu top to reward player creativity. That argument has become outdated. I wonder what justifies keeping solo Lulu viable. What unique thing does she offer that other mages can't? If there is no good reason, I rather see that Lulu returns to her support role.

Hoi Im Temmo1 votes

Personally, I like her as a support: she is interesting and aggressive, making for better laning. I just feel like she is a negative experience when you play against her top. Thanks for the reply!

Cu Sidhe1 votes

Some nerfs I'm coming up with are to make her slow only be 80% if both Glitterlances hit (maybe 40-60% if only one hits) and to transfer damage from her Q to her passive. This way she'll have to maneuver around minions and possibly open herself up for a gank to get maximum poke. Maybe both of these at the same time could wreck her Q but they could lower the mana cost to compensate.

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