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Balancing Zed

allthemuslims··5 votes·797 views

It seems like a lot of people want Zed to be severely nerfed, but no one wants to post any good ideas on how to do it. So, I'll post what I think needs to be done and you guys should do the same :) Passive: Remains the same Q: Same base damages, cut AD scaling in half and add a 60% AP scaling for first target hit, and 40% for everything hit afterwards W: Increase energy regen, longer cooldown at earlier levels, keeps AD buff E: Remains the same, but with an AP scaling instead of AD (I have no idea what ratio to put on it TBH) R: Put a range on the TP back, make him targetable while dashing but unstoppable (except maybe by knockbacks, which wouldn't remove the mark, would need to test to see if it would work out), and make the pop 50% AD 40% AP (Maybe more) + current damage from damage dealt

At least then he will be either an auto attacking sustained damage monster or an instagib GG no RE assassin, not both. Shifting him to AP builds I feel would make him more healthy. (Obviously I would have to play around with the ratios but I feel like this is a decent place to start) Please post your thoughts or your own rework ideas below, and thanks for reading :)

23 Comments

Voluug134 votes

Waveclear nerf, just like Garen.

Make his Ult only allow TP back in the case the target dies. Reduce the base to 0, up the damage scaling to compensate. Now cant be used as a safe last hit.

TomA3X1 votes

Are you suggesting it allows him to TP back if the Ult thinks it can kill someone? It's something like 6 seconds until that mark pops, thats a long time he can't TP to it.

Removing the base sounds pretty on point, i'd go for that.

Voluug131 votes

Then reduce the time has to TP back. That way any CC'ed time is actually worth instead of just making him eat a couple of tower shots **if ** the tower targeting doesnt go idiot.

Also, eliminate the Mark taking into account item/ignite damage.

TomA3X1 votes

Sounds good to me, it's only magic damage and physical it accounts for by the way. So Ignite isn't counted I don't believe.

Godhri4 votes

Make no change. He's fine as is. The people complaining are probably the ones who allow him to free farm and when they walk up to cs, zed throws a shadow in front of them and then Qs. Thus resulting in them running back into the back lines without cs. smh.

Juicyman7 votes

{quoted}

Make no change. He's fine as is. The people complaining are probably the ones who allow him to free farm and when they walk up to cs, zed throws a shadow in front of them and then Qs. Thus resulting in them running back into the back lines without cs. smh.

'allow him to free farm'

Energy based, builds AD, has an in-built execute passive that works on minions, safe Q farming and W+Q for even safer farming.

Riot are letting him free farm.

Godhri3 votes

Buddy. I'm not just theory crafting here. I have played against Zeds at the Silver, Gold and Plat level. it's all about lane mechanics. Lane mechanics is something that is unfortunately very foreign to lower ranked players which is why they feel so helpless against champions like Zed.

Juicyman2 votes

{quoted}

Buddy. I'm not just theory crafting here. I have played against Zeds at the Silver, Gold and Plat level. it's all about lane mechanics. Lane mechanics is something that is unfortunately very foreign to lower ranked players which is why they feel so helpless against champions like Zed.

I wasn't talking about lane interaction, I was talking about how to stop a Zed from free farming. Not only does he have the tools to severally outplay and secure solo kills in the lane but even if his opponent manages to get around that they won't be able to stop him from efficiently farming.

Godhri2 votes

What you are talking about IS lane interaction. Laning mechanics are all about what you do during laning phase. This includes denying/allowing farm. As I've said, you can make it so that all he can do is throw Qs and even then, he won't be able to farm efficiently. Grabbing Exhaust is something of a must if you aren't a Master at laning mechanics, but that's kinda standard to have against AD assassins mid.

I could go over all the specifics on how to do it, but that would just be a waste of time unless you learn it yourself. For example, you just saw him use his W and Q skill. You wait for the shadow to disappear or you go around the shadow and harass him because now he no longer has anything to use against you. etc. etc. I could go on, but I think you get the point from here.

Other aspects of lane mechanics include wave control and positioning. You always want to make sure you are constantly moving and do not limit yourself to one side of the lane. Limiting yourself to one side of the lane makes it easy to setup ganks against you and easy to control the general area where you move your champion.

What is wave control? Exactly what it sounds like. You control how far the wave is. You're both at full health and the wave is near the middle of the lane. This is where you decide if you want to push the lane by autoing constantly or just last hitting at the very last second to allow the lane to be pushed. In Zed's case, you want to let it be pushed while still denying him farm whenever possible and yes that is possible. Allowing the wave to be pushed up to near your tower has many advantages but I will only name a few; setting up ganks, free farming (for you), increasing lane pressure (this occurs because he is likely well aware of the risk he is posing on himself by extending beyond the middle section of the lane) thus allowing you to harass him easier and deny farm.

I'm not saying you will be able to avoid all harass, but with wave control and positioning, you can bait him into a risky dive which would more than likely result in your favor.

Juicyman2 votes

{quoted}

What you are talking about IS lane interaction. Laning mechanics are all about what you do during laning phase. This includes denying/allowing farm. As I've said, you can make it so that all he can do is throw Qs and even then, he won't be able to farm efficiently. Grabbing Exhaust is something of a must if you aren't a Master at laning mechanics, but that's kinda standard to have against AD assassins mid.

I could go over all the specifics on how to do it, but that would just be a waste of time unless you learn it yourself. For example, you just saw him use his W and Q skill. You wait for the shadow to disappear or you go around the shadow and harass him because now he no longer has anything to use against you. etc. etc. I could go on, but I think you get the point from here.

Other aspects of lane mechanics include wave control and positioning. You always want to make sure you are constantly moving and do not limit yourself to one side of the lane. Limiting yourself to one side of the lane makes it easy to setup ganks against you and easy to control the general area where you move your champion.

What is wave control? Exactly what it sounds like. You control how far the wave is. You're both at full health and the wave is near the middle of the lane. This is where you decide if you want to push the lane by autoing constantly or just last hitting at the very last second to allow the lane to be pushed. In Zed's case, you want to let it be pushed while still denying him farm whenever possible and yes that is possible. Allowing the wave to be pushed up to near your tower has many advantages but I will only name a few; setting up ganks, free farming (for you), increasing lane pressure (this occurs because he is likely well aware of the risk he is posing on himself by extending beyond the middle section of the lane) thus allowing you to harass him easier and deny farm.

I'm not saying you will be able to avoid all harass, but with wave control and positioning, you can bait him into a risky dive which would more than likely result in your favor.

I'll assume you're talking about pre 6 because in most scenario's you can't do much against him. As long as the shadow remains he can switch to it for better positioning to dodge any of your abilities then ult you. Even pre 6 the switch will dodge your abilities quite easily.

He can also farm efficiently with everything I said in my previous previous post.

Godhri1 votes

This is why you bait out his abilities. Obviously, he has the advantage with his kit, but by baiting it out, you can use his cool downs against him.

Also, it applies to more than just pre-6, but it is definitely easier to do pre-6. Post-6, it is very advisable to keep the lane pushed near your tower, but what I said still applies here. Laning phase usually only goes up till level 11-14 at the latest anyway. After that, you're stupid if you go in alone against a champion who's kit is designed for eliminating a single target.

Juicyman1 votes

{quoted}

This is why you bait out his abilities. Obviously, he has the advantage with his kit, but by baiting it out, you can use his cool downs against him.

Also, it applies to more than just pre-6, but it is definitely easier to do pre-6. Post-6, it is very advisable to keep the lane pushed near your tower, but what I said still applies here. Laning phase usually only goes up till level 11-14 at the latest anyway. After that, you're stupid if you go in alone against a champion who's kit is designed for eliminating a single target.

You do there ar eother champions in the game who have kits design to eliminate single targets and the majority are not as oppressive as Zed right? You're counter-argument for Zed have counter-play is that 'he can miss sometimes', that's not really counter-play.

I agree with baiting out abilities but with infinite sustain that means jack.

Godhri1 votes

It's clear that you aren't doing it right if you still feel that baiting out abilities so that you can harass doesn't mean jack. I would do the math for you but I don't like math and I don't feel like it. Anyway, I'll just leave it at what I've said because it is clear that you are dead set on your viewpoint that Zed is oppressive.

Juicyman2 votes

{quoted}

No it really doesn't mean jack. It's clear that you aren't doing it right if you still feel that baiting out abilities so that you can harass doesn't mean jack. I would do the math for you but I don't like math and I don't feel like it. Anyway, I'll just leave it at what I've said because it is clear that you are dead set on your viewpoint that Zed is oppressive.

Zed misses abilities Walks backwards to dodge your abilities Rewarded with easy farming passive Q and E come back up

You either farm with him or die, good.

TomA3X1 votes

Yep, that's your only option, farm with him or die. I guess it's impossible to play against Zed, that'll be why he has that 100% winrate.

Voluug131 votes

Bad players always exist.

Like Zed players that instapick him against a Katarina and QQ about how cant they beat Katarina when they dive her.

SmknWdl1 votes

Finally someone else who agrees.

Divewing3 votes

no, just nerf his waveclear pre 6.............. zed is an assasin, they should have weaknesses pre 6, then a huge burst spike at 6, zed doesnt have that, nerf his waveclear and it will make a sufficient difference

XeroKimo2 votes

You wanna know the easiest way to nerf zed if your complaining that much? Revert his ult change where his ult shadow appears on the far end of the targeted enemy. Sure it'll make bursting easier, but it'll make escaping harder. Done.

TomA3X1 votes

I think that will cause a much bigger buff than is intended. Currently it is actually rather difficult to hit with both or even 3 Q's after ulting if the enemy moves around well, with that change you're basically lining it up for him.

XeroKimo1 votes

I know that very well, but have you ever considered when in team fights, a fed zed or good zeds are able to just ult high target enemies, basic attack bortk ult away q e, and dead. Now what will you do about zed then? He's back in the middle of his teammates in a 4 v 5 situation, you had very little time to react to protect your adc or anyone that's a high priority target, If reverting his ult shadow changes allows easier burst, like I said, it'll reduce his chance of escaping after he does it since he can't return back to ridiculous ranges like a leblanc w. Which in turn puts him in a dangerous spot, I mean look at talon or fizz, when they go assassinate someone, they'll have to be in a tight spot where they can be easily focused

TomA3X1 votes

Yeah I do understand that's an issue, I just dunno if that's the solution. I wasn't around before they changed it, so I can't really say more, but did they change it as a nerf?

XeroKimo1 votes

They did do that as a nerf, and to open more play potential as zed is what I recall, at first it was like that, but people's opinions changes over time. During that time, zed was either ridiculously ahead, or so behind and useless, if reverting the ult means higher burst, then nerf his early game damage and have it scale back to the same amount as it is now so he can't get that far ahead that easily going something like this

Q: 75/115/155/195/235 ----> 55/100/145/190/235 If q hits someone beforehand the damage will be unchanged If more than 1 q hits the same target it'll still be 50% less damage W: Unchanged E: Base damages are already pretty low it'd be hard to nerf this without having it be useless in early game R: Changed back to shadow will be at the far end of zed's position against opponent.

That could probably satisfy as nerfs now over buffs

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