I know people say Garen is weak in lane but like..

Penns·Dec 26, 2016·8 votes·1,680 views

https://i.gyazo.com/3daf0533dc1582e2824e7685cafb6116.gif Ouch lol

26 Comments

Sahn UzalDec 26, 201614 votes

Poppy gets her big boy bonus resistances when she unlocks W. Her ''I'm gonna run you over because I can'' phase doesn't really start untill level 7. Garen stacked his Grasp of the Undying before that Trade happened, restoring some of that Poppy Q's damage, and Reset his AA.

The way that went really didn't surprise me.

EDIT: I initially misread the title, I thought you said ''weak in line''. I don't think anyone says Garen is weak in lane. But he used to have a stronger laningphase than he does now.

PennsDec 26, 20161 votes

I dunno I dont play top often but him chunking me for over half hp in 1s at level 1 definitely did surprise me lol.

Sahn UzalDec 26, 20167 votes

Toplane is a cruel world for those dumb/unkowing enough to take dumb trades when they shouldn't :P

RalanrDec 26, 20161 votes

I am terrible at reading when I should trade. So I just trade when people fuck up theirs.

Honestly in my elo it's pretty much the easiest thing.

Sahn UzalDec 26, 20162 votes

Does the enemy have a lot of minions on his side? Is the enemy hugging his minions or is he standing near my wave? Did the enemy just use an ability to farm? Do I have a level advantage (First one to hit level 2 or 3)

Those are some things you can consider when asking yourself if you can go for a trade :P

But hey, don't fix what ain't broken!

RalanrDec 26, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tidal Tyrant,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1r1Pp8NR,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-26T18:11:07.144+0000)

Does the enemy have a lot of minions on his side? Is the enemy hugging his minions or is he standing near my wave? Did the enemy just use an ability to farm? Do I have a level advantage (First one to hit level 2 or 3)

Those are some things you can consider when asking yourself if you can go for a trade :P

But hey, don't fix what ain't broken!

Holy shit so much aggression makes sense now.

Sahn UzalDec 26, 20162 votes

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/10/tim-and-eric-mind-blown.gif

AcidTheWarlockDec 26, 20161 votes

Trading is like all I'm good at lol

StephenizgodDec 26, 20161 votes

Yea, Garen's Q is like his best ability, his laning phase is a lot weaker than it use to be. Poppy can't do much about him until she gets some resistances. Also not to sound insulting but he just played to his strengths better than you did. At level 1 Garen's Q can do something like 130 damage, he AA'd you proccing Grasp then Q'd that is easily about 200-230 damage. Since most champs start at around 600, its a large chunk of damage, plus it looks like 3 minions were attacking you and only 1 was attacking him. You would have done a similar amount of damage but he healed from Grasp, he knew he could win that trade though and went for it.

Asayake 5150glowDec 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I dunno I dont play top often but him chunking me for over half hp in 1s at level 1 definitely did surprise me lol.

His level 1 is pretty tough, he has a super high base damage Q. As with most people who have an auto attack reset/empower.

CatastropDec 26, 20164 votes

Considering it's Poppy, Garen can have this against her. He'll get run over the moment she gets so much as a Bami's. Yes I'm salty, Poppy is just annoying. I'd rather face a team of 2 Zeds, 2 Yasuos and a Riven alone than deal with her.

EedatDec 26, 20164 votes

Doesnt even need a item 3751 . A item 1031 will suffice.

Zero Skill TankDec 26, 20161 votes

This post makes no sense. If he does this much damage, he does it against anyone, not "against Poppy".

LegenDariusGarenDec 26, 20164 votes

Garen has always had a good level 1. Pre-rework and post, his level 1 is exactly the same. He landed an AA with grasp, then Q. Now some math.

Garen has 616.28 base HP. Dorans gives 80 HP. Vet Scars gives 50 HP. That is 746.28 HP. Grasp deals 3% max HP, so 22.39 magic damage.

Garen's base AD is 57.88. With 15 AD runes, that is 72.88 AD.

Garen's Q, at level 1, deals 30+140% AD. So that is 30 + 1.4 x 72.88 = 132.032. That is a total of 72.88+22.39+132.032=227.302 potential damage.

Now to include resistances. Looking at Poppy's health bar, she started corrupting potion. Poppy has 29 base armor and 32.1 base MR. With scaling armor yellows and scaling MR blues, unyielding and fearless(which only applies to Garen's Q) mastery, we get:

29(base)+1.44(runes)+0.072(unyielding)=30.512 armor for the AA 29+1.44+2(fearless)+0.516(unyielding+fearless)=32.956 armor for the Q

32.1+1.44+0.072=33.612 MR for the Grasp.

Now for damage reduction. 100/(100+30.512)=76.62% for the AA 100/(100+32.956)=75.21% for the Q 100/(100+33.612)=74.84% for the grasp.

So in total, we have 0.7662 x 72.88 + 0.7521 x 132.032 + 0.7484 x 22.39 = 55.841 + 99.3 + 16.76 = 171.901 damage

Poppy has 540 base HP + 50 from vet scars = 590 HP. So Garen did 31.8% of her HP from that combo. Having said that, she did start corrupting potion, and thus looking at just the above, it is as if she started longsword, or even no items.

Having said that, Garen is weak in lane because his spin is trash, not his Q.

RalanrDec 26, 20161 votes

It isn't his laning that's the issue with Garen imo. It's how useless he is after it.

PennsDec 26, 20161 votes

Well later he just shred my armor, I did no damage and he rekt me. I think the last buff was enough, 49.5% win rate seems good for a "only strong in low elo" champ.

RalanrDec 26, 20161 votes

"But you were Poppy! You should have been able to out damage and out tank him cause Poppy is OP!"

Darth StepVaderDec 26, 20161 votes

What setup did you have in this matchup? I mean, Garen's damage, even with his buffed E, is pretty bad right now. A guy even counterpicked my Nasus with Garen recently and couldn't even scratch me in lane.

He used to be powerful early and a big menace. Now he's nonexistent in every point of the game and gets heavily outclassed by most other picks.

PennsDec 26, 20161 votes

Both of us had standard stuff just that he started DBlade.

DanjengDec 26, 20161 votes

Garen's q hits as hard as it did back then. Garen's level 1 is still pretty good, q gives a aa reset, bonus damage, MS boost, and a silence. Pretty good shit for 1 ability. Combine that with an offensive DBlade start, he's going to hit really hard.

I sometimes cheese with 15 AD runes, and longsword 3 pots, and hide in bush for the first hit. Garen-teed to win the first trade with this strat (no promise on other trades afterwards).

bbQsauçeDec 26, 20161 votes

[deleted]

PennsDec 26, 20161 votes

Flat but only 6 of them, I had 35 armor there.

l Helios lDec 26, 20161 votes

You never really want to fight someone who has an AA reset ability at level one, especially one with Grasp. Abilities aren't meaningful at level one, since the cooldowns are so long, and it typically devolves into an AA fight after the first attack. Darius, Garen, Jax, Camille, Renekton, GP, etc have pretty solid level one trades if they take the AA reset. GP does well just because his Q is a low CD, ranged, and deals pretty solid damage.