Are you trolling us Riot?

GenoXx·Sep 30, 2015·79 votes·3,599 views

Vayne

*Base attack damage lowered to 50.46 from 53.46

*Attack damage growth increased to 3.5 from 3.25

Is this considered a nerf?....Or just nothing at all

72 Comments

Karn BishopSep 30, 201547 votes

this is vaynes silver bolt passive

Passive: Vayne's basic attacks and abilities mark her target with Silver Bolts for 3 seconds, stacking up to 3 times. The third stack consumes all Silver Bolts on the target to deal them true damage.

This is how it should read instead

Passive: Vayne's basic attacks and abilities mark her target with Silver Bolts for 3 seconds, stacking up to 5 times. The fifth stack consumes all Silver Bolts on the target to deal them true damage. Stacks required decrease to 4 at level 9 and 3 at level 16.

Bam Vayne now has a harder early game while still having a godly late game without just instant winning once bork is finished.

note the total damage scaling does not change, so she doesn't get extra damage for those 2 extra stacks, it just takes her more auto's to get off early game.

Old Man TeetoSep 30, 201511 votes

That wouldn't just nerf Vayne,

It would remove her from the game, which seems to be what people want based on the boards feedback.

TysminSep 30, 201512 votes

it would hardly remove her from the game it would just make her a high risk high reward champion as intended. Though if they do that they would have to buff the damage on her early game silver bolts.

WarlockLawSep 30, 20154 votes

Late game champions are not equivalent to high risk high reward champions. High risk high reward champions are those with risks inherently in their kit, a squishy diving an enemy team for example. Late game champs instead play passive and wait until they outscale.

Sir FuzziSep 30, 20153 votes

Two extra autos is removing a champ from the game?

xFrostKnightxOct 1, 20151 votes

Vayne main logic Meanwhile Zed mains refuse to pick up Hexdrinker or mercs against ap champions who counter him.

Logic on forums is nonexistent.

Karn BishopSep 30, 20154 votes

Is there something wrong with riot randomly removing your favorite champion from the game? I main eve and it happens all the time are you saying this isn't standard riot procedure?

so confused :(

HighH1Oct 1, 20151 votes

Kha'zix and Elise mains feel your pain

Old Man TeetoOct 1, 20151 votes

Yea, Riot isn't the greatest at gentle nerfs to things that aren't ADC's.

I knew my comment would be greatly downvoted, but changing from 3 hits without swapping to 5 for laning means unless you're all-in your silver bolts will do nothing, five auto-attacks in a row onto a champion early game IS pretty much an all-in. It won't help her CS, since 5 AA's on anything but an uncontested tank minion will never trigger.

At level 9, laning phase is pretty much over (particularly for ADC), when Vayne gets it reduced to 4 hits. Games typically don't last to level 16 ADC's when she gets it to 3 hits.

Vaynes Purpose is a tank shredder/anti-bruiser dueler.

If anything, they could do a rework for Vayne making True-silver bolts her passive, toning down early damage and making it scale better late game, while giving her a different W that is NOT a steroid, toning down her ability to "charge" after squishies and force her into the role as good vs tanks/bruisers and bad vs squishies (possibly reducing Condemn's range to what it used to be - but making it knock back farther the shorter range she uses it)

JustMyBassCannonSep 30, 20153 votes

Yeah, let's gut her only laning DPS tool, which is already limited to one target at a time, not that she has any AoE in the first place. I'm sure that won't make her incapable of dueling enemy champs in the lane.

xFrostKnightxOct 1, 20151 votes

Vayne "main" I presume?

I don't mean an actual Vayne main, Vayne mains are cool.

I mean someone who only plays certain champions because their strong "main"

JustMyBassCannonOct 1, 20152 votes

Nope, I'm not an FotM "mainer"

Just so you know, I despise those players as well.

I hardly even play Vayne, mostly did it a few times to get a feel for her kit's cadence, so I have a relative idea of how to play against one.

Just because I want to defend an aspect of a champion's kit, it doesn't mean I consistently play that champion.

Nerfing Silver Bolts is killing her laning DPS. Tumble has a long base cooldown until level 9 and only adds a very small chunk of burst damage--less than half an attack's worth of damage and one attack reset. Condemn is out of the question for many obvious reasons.

Yes, at level 18, she has solid base AS and AD. For the first five or so levels, pretty much all of her laning threat is in extended dueling strength. This is why she already, naturally does poorly laning against skirmishers and dealing with assassin junglers. This is also why her favorite supports are the ones that can hold down a target for a second or two.

Making her W take 5 stacks is nearly halving the damage output of Silver Bolts--which, by the way, despite being most of her laning power, is ranked up second because of how important Tumble is--which significantly reduces her threat.

She already can't apply it to multiple targets without it resetting. She doesn't have an AoE attack, so even if her stacks didn't reset when she changed targets, she doesn't have a way to apply this threat consistently to multiple targets. The stacks disappear within a few seconds too.

I'm not saying Vayne doesn't need nerfs; I'm saying this isn't a good direction to take the nerfs.

WolfBVSep 30, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Karn Bishop,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1nVFf2MF,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-09-30T09:43:52.787+0000)

this is vaynes silver bolt passive

Passive: Vayne's basic attacks and abilities mark her target with Silver Bolts for 3 seconds, stacking up to 3 times. The third stack consumes all Silver Bolts on the target to deal them true damage.

This is how it should read instead

Passive: Vayne's basic attacks and abilities mark her target with Silver Bolts for 3 seconds, stacking up to 5 times. The fifth stack consumes all Silver Bolts on the target to deal them true damage. Stacks required decrease to 4 at level 9 and 3 at level 16.

Bam Vayne now has a harder early game while still having a godly late game without just instant winning once bork is finished.

note the total damage scaling does not change, so she doesn't get extra damage for those 2 extra stacks, it just takes her more auto's to get off early game.

This seems k. Gonna have to level up silver bolts as the 3rd or final skill.

windwolf777Oct 1, 20151 votes

Oh......Wait, am I odd for currently going 9-1-9? Like, I just don't see the use in leveling condemn? I honestly think that unless you have a champ like Anivia , JarvanIV ( Azir ??) to reliably make a wall I don't see the use in leveling it passed level 1.

WolfBVOct 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Oh......Wait, am I odd for currently going 9-1-9? Like, I just don't see the use in leveling condemn? I honestly think that unless you have a champ like , ( ??) to reliably make a wall I don't see the use in leveling it passed level 1.

No, you're not odd. :P Just with the changes the guy that I replied to proposed that her silver bolts take 5 hits to proc, then 4 hits at level 11, then 3 hits at 16. So with silver bolts taking 5 hits to proc, which I doubt you'll be able to do in lane without a gank, it'd be more beneficial to level q or e first instead.

windwolf777Oct 2, 20151 votes

facepalm Now I feel dumb lol. Thanks mate :)

LaoBushidoOct 1, 20151 votes

are you suggesting they move the passive to here ult right ? what would the new w be?

Karn BishopOct 1, 20151 votes

no im just suggesting it should take more then 3 stacks to use it early game, then scale back down to 3 stacks late game.

DrCyanideOct 1, 20151 votes

The number of barrels Gangplank can store scales with the level of his ultimate, this would be the same idea.

AeterlightOct 1, 20151 votes

Grats you found the worst way to balance a champ you'll be the next Meddler.

Karn BishopOct 1, 20151 votes

I could have just flat out removed 200 starting hp or 30 ad or something, the changes above give her late game while making her early game hard as it should be.

Alternative changes include Condemn not applying a stack of silver bolt and Silverbolts being changed to either physical damage so one could build armor vs it or change it to % hp true damage based off of bonus HP from items thus allowing her to still tank shred but making assassins a valid counter to her.

EnnoraetilOct 2, 20151 votes

^ This Perfect

KONO RUBICK DASep 30, 201521 votes

you have twitch base ad nerf by 6 to make him really weak in early game

and then you have vayne base AD nerf by 3 with AD per lvl increased

wow.

IceKingChernobogSep 30, 20153 votes

twitch's base AD nerf made him pathetic early game

Vayne has not 1 but 2 AD steroids, this nerf won't hurt her much

Rew711Sep 30, 20156 votes

This also buffs her late game... 17x3.25+53.46=108.71 vs 17x3.5+50.46=109.96.... and it does nothing to stop her early anyway. This is a compensated buff. (Just like what they did to Jinx when they changed her Q passive.)

MimySep 30, 201519 votes

that's 3 damage.. it stacks up especially for early game..

It's not a buff nor a nerf..

it's men't to weaken her during laning phase but still come full power later on.. but with how easily vayne bounces... yea.. they still might play with the numbers.. it's in PBE.

#At least they're looking at her.. at least appreciate that fact...

SleepyLionCubSep 30, 20156 votes

{quoted}

that's 3 damage.. it stacks up especially for early game..

It's not a buff nor a nerf..

it's men't to weaken her during laning phase but still come full power later on.. but with how easily vayne bounces... yea.. they still might play with the numbers.. it's in PBE.

#At least they're looking at her.. at least appreciate that fact...

I would bold the dumbest part of your post. if you hadnt done it already.

MimySep 30, 20159 votes

I would bold the dumbest part of your post. if you hadn't done it already.

That's cool! I'll return that favor! :D

CHOPSTICKUHHSep 30, 20159 votes

{quoted}

#At least they're looking at her.. at least appreciate that fact...

Damn, real talk

DecritSep 30, 20151 votes

Honestly is more of a nerf: AD is valued less later on, with items and her ultimate. However it is sorta fine since this makes her early less good and the late better.

MimySep 30, 20151 votes

That's what I'm sorta saying and I like that too. people say she wasent much of a problem till recently and she never got buff.. as some people say.. so maybe vayne is balanced and the rest of the ADCs just need a bit of a buff with everything new...

hence.. this upcomming marksman update.? Maybe? no? I'm not sure either..

BluePolarizerOct 1, 20151 votes

uh yes she did get multiple direct buffs lol. check patch history.

MimyOct 1, 20151 votes

Oh? hmmm... guess that person who said that was lying.. o-o

BluePolarizerOct 1, 20151 votes

http://lol.gamepedia.com/Vayne_-_The_Night_Hunter#Patch_History

HUGE direct buff in 5.14. HUGE direct buff in 4.13.

MimyOct 1, 20151 votes

HOLY COW! No wonder she's a monster!

WhiskerWowOct 1, 20151 votes

It's a nerf. She only gets 1 extra AD at level 18.

1 AD at level one is better than 1 AD at level eighteen.

Silents429Sep 30, 201510 votes

Maybe if you had read the text next to it, where they give you context behind it.

You know, the parts where they don't want to do anything major due to the upcoming marksmen overhaul.

Red RyuOct 1, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Maybe if you had read the text next to it, where they give you context behind it.

You know, the parts where they don't want to do anything major due to the upcoming marksmen overhaul.

The smartest post in the whole thread.

Axis the DragonSep 30, 20156 votes

She has overall less AD from levels 1-11 (3 less at Level 1), they're evened out at 12, and from then on it increases until 18 where her AD is higher by a whopping 1.5

I mean... I guess it's technically an overall nerf? xD

MCBiggah99Sep 30, 20155 votes

She needs nerfs without compensation, screw compensating her already borderline broken late-game.

There were champs who needed compensation for their nerfs, like Kassadin, they didn't get it and were gutted.

But as soon as we start talking Vayne, 3 AD reduction in the early game is compensated by 1-2 extra AD at level 18. Just stop giving her stuff and nerf her plain and straight.

JonesybonesSep 30, 20153 votes

[deleted]

KONO RUBICK DASep 30, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Riot tolls us by pretending they care about every elo. When in reality, they only care about diamond+

vayne is stupidly overpowered in diamond, nothing is viable except vayne and jinx

Baseball3bSep 30, 20153 votes

do you not get that they're waiting for the marksmen update before changing her more if needed?

Why change something when the entire class is getting updated soon and making radical adjustments could create a ton more work?

Emperor AntaresSep 30, 20152 votes

This actually means Vayne will be stronger post lvl 12; but weaker pre-12

Cenobite AzazielSep 30, 20152 votes

Kayle up her ad scaling?

AkesgerothOct 1, 20152 votes

Reminds me of when they went "WE'RE FINALLY NERFING ZED" and they very slightly nerfed his base attack speed.

Because that was the problem. His attack speed was just slightly too high.

Handin Out NapsOct 1, 20151 votes

And now he isn't a problem, looks like it worked out in the end. Fuck the last nerf wasn't even needed, just the low elos needed something to qq about.

AkesgerothOct 1, 20151 votes

And now he isn't a problem

Yeah, it's almost like he got other nerfs afterwards.

Handin Out NapsOct 1, 20151 votes

Those nerfs were given to him after he wasn't even being played anymore. Riot just went full retard, not like they mess with him too much anyway, just takes away some outplay potential.