Congrats Riot, you've completely nulled out Lore

GenoXx·Jan 17, 2015·76 votes·7,794 views

I dont even see any type of post about lore anymore here. It's only Art threads here. And Not to mention that No Body From the Narrative team Even Stops by and discuss things Like IronStylus does with the people here for Art.

No more lore updates, no more lore discussion. All focused on Gameplay. Great Job completely destroying and ruining something your fans really cared about. Hope it satisfy gameplay is now the only thing that League of Legends actually have to it's name now.

R.I.P. Lore

70 Comments

Light Master 97Jan 17, 201531 votes

League used to have quite a deep lore back in seasons 1 and 2. Even had a form of "magazine" or "news article" that would tell us about the happenings in Runeterra, sadly a lot of people don't give two damns about that and are only trying to increase their position in ranked. I loved reading the journal when waiting for matches at 3 AM in the morning, and i loved reading character lore when i was dead during a match ( it was very relaxing). I really think Riot should return the Summoner Journal and "revive" the lore, so to speak, or just continue where they left off. P.S. The last journal entry was after Katarina had returned from Demacia, to meet up with Talon, to see Swain become Supreme General after her fathers "untimely" death.

CupcakeTrapJan 17, 201516 votes

When I first read the JoJ, I thought it was pretty hokey, but on reflection, it had some fun material. I like the idea of a newspaper that Summoners and Champions might pick up from a newsstand at the Institute. It was nice having a large body of reading material to fill in some details of the universe. That's the primary purpose of the Summoner's Herald in Factions. People seem to like it. In another reality, that might lead me to hope that it could eventually inspire Riot to take another shot at a JoJ.

However, I really don't expect Riot to make a new JoJ anytime soon, for two main reasons. First, they've spoken quite negatively about "walls of text". (And hey, when you have an enormous multimedia budget, why not just make everything a movie? Even if it means a few embarrassing SHE…BETRAYS!…SIVIR! incidents where we listen to Nasus read the descriptions off a storyboard in the voice of Olmec from Legends of the Hidden Temple.) Second, the Leagueless League lore that Narrative is creating is a dark, fragmented universe in which the various factions are isolated from each other. That's the opposite of the sort of universe that creates a JoJ or Herald: a universe where people read about the goings-on abroad and have fairly regular contact with each other, and a universe not so bleak that people don't enjoy reading articles about pet poros and such. Right now, I get the impression that Narrative's new Runeterra is all about people huddling in their dark corners, too preoccupied with some disaster or another to care about what happens next door. Honestly, I suspect that if you asked Narrative what the average Demacian thinks about Ionia, they'd say something like, "They might have once heard an old legend about a place called 'Ionia', but nobody knows if it really exists or not." I can't help but view that as a cop-out which saves them the trouble of working out how Demacia and Ionia might interact, or view one another's very different societies. Still, that's the view that predominates, and it's not a view that's conducive to a new JoJ.

In addition to those two thematic reasons why I wouldn't expect a new JoJ, there's also the matter of the erasure of the Institute itself. The League is ("was", I suppose) a meeting-place for people of all nations. Its primary purpose was to resolve disputes among them and enforce the laws of war, but it was also a forum where Champions and Summoners from distant lands could meet one another. A place of commerce and diplomacy, for a quarter million humans and ali—

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AXz_-Swp8Y

Or, you know, something like that. The sort of place that would publish a JoJ or a Herald.

GenoXxJan 17, 20157 votes

It would be nice If they just Start doing their job actually, Idk what they are getting paid for....

CupcakeTrapJan 17, 201512 votes

{quoted}

It would be nice If they just Start doing their job actually, Idk what they are getting paid for....

I actually do believe they're working on stuff right now. Probably a lot of stuff. I'm just not sure we'll be happy to see it.

I take a "be careful what you wish for" approach when it comes to Narrative. It's just too much of a roulette wheel. That Shurima story about the Noxian dude was pretty solid—good universe detail, some classy allusions to Roman literary conventions about "mysterious lands", even an interesting and nuanced POV character. But then you have the "Summoners were all-powerful puppetmasters" people. And the agonizingly bad first round of Shurima lore.

I'd feel a whole lot better about Narrative if they'd start actually talking ideas over with us before they finalized them. That might help them avoid the really cringey stuff, by giving an outsider perspective from people who aren't anxious about upsetting colleagues, and haven't bought into the "master plan". Any purely internal review process is going to have some echo chamber problems.

Rew711Jan 17, 20157 votes

As one who likes a good story, the Lore of LoL was something I barely got to get into before it went away. Now, all I know is what people just happen to tell in posts.

DotintheparadoxJan 17, 20155 votes

Here you go http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/The_Journal_of_Justice:_Volume_1,_Issue_01

XonraJan 17, 20154 votes

{quoted}

It would be nice If they just Start doing their job actually, Idk what they are getting paid for....

You'd be surprised how many hours they straight up waste creating something, scrapping it, starting from scratch, scrapping it, going back to what they started with only giving small weeks, then just coming out with a paragraph, then sit back "Job well done" with high fives as a week of work produces less than what was there BEFORE they started.

At least with the champion design team when they "start from scratch" they reuse ideas for other champions so it isn't just thrown away completely, and you don't see the champion design team coming in and deleting 20 champions and giving us one new one names " New Champion Generic Man " because they feel giving new champions names really limits the ideas and themes they can come up with.

DotintheparadoxJan 17, 201512 votes

New narrative seems more interested in clichéd characters, instead of well-thought out political exploits.

NO TALKING, FIGHT AND THEN WALK AROUND ALL ANGRY!! ANGST!!!!!!!!!!

AuryielJan 17, 20155 votes

I'll be perfectly honest, I completely lost my shit when you said SHE... BETRAYS! ... SIVIR!

This is a serious subject and one I care about deeply but omg that was perfect

CupcakeTrapJan 17, 20155 votes

{quoted}

I'll be perfectly honest, I completely lost my shit when you said SHE... BETRAYS! ... SIVIR!

This is a serious subject and one I care about deeply but omg that was perfect

THE ANCIENT WEAPON IS A KEY!

The SoulforgedJan 18, 20152 votes

For me, it was kinda the opposite. I thought the simple sentences Nasus used sounded so stupid xD. Just imo.

MotajoJan 18, 20153 votes

{quoted}I thought the simple sentences Nasus used sounded so stupid xD.

That's the point

EverTokkiJan 17, 20156 votes

The JoJ and the League Judgement too. It helped players understand the champions in depth, along with the Runeterra world and the things that were going inside of the world so much. Now that they removed everything since it 'became unrelated to the game content itself', it feels like I'm disconnected from the world of Runeterra, and I'm just seeing a bunch of champions with different skill sets fight.

I wish they'd not dig up the whole story base and dump it in trash and base it on a new idea (apparently being more depth into the champions themselves and something outside their political/twisted fights and everything). I'm not saying that it's bad to do that, but they should also remake everything based on the old 'League, summoners, champions with some goal' idea to just add some more reality and meaning to the world. At least leave their reasons to join league separately or something.

SilverthaneJan 18, 20153 votes

wait katarina's dad is dead? i thought he dissapeared and the reason why talon joined the league was to look for him.

Vellich0rJan 18, 20152 votes

yeah, it would be great to read it these days when you get hit by a morg binding. I mean just imagine, go grab a hot cup of cocoa, get into your favorite winter clothes, sit down at the computer reading lore and sipping cocoa: heaven on earth.

SalzigorimandoJan 18, 20159 votes

I recently realized something.

None of the champions in the game who haven't been updated since the retconn have a confirmed back story, personality, or even appearance anymore.

Riot can literally rewrite every character in the game, from motives to eye and hair color, into sombody else entirely and it would all be cannon.

MotajoJan 18, 20154 votes

{quoted}Riot can literally rewrite every character in the game, from motives to eye and hair color, into sombody else entirely and it would all be cannon.

Auugghghh, don't remind me

LANWhaleJan 19, 20154 votes

Lets not talk about....the accident

Trundle

Good champion, but isn't Trundle....

GreenLoreJan 17, 20158 votes

The amount of lore and art-threads varies from time to time We are about to get a complete VU,some Texture rebalances and got a new ahri splash art(and because its ahri,thats a big deal),so it makes sense that currently there are a lot of discussions about the art here.

Then there are times when a lot of people seem to feel the need to make a new "riot ur new lore sucks" thread over and over again.

And then there are times when the lore gets discussed,usually when some new piece of lore gets released(usually a new champion),but sometimes the interest in lore spikes again even when nothing got released.

I agree though,that the lore team has been far too silent again,they wanted to be more active,which they were.....for a few months. I mean i can understand them to some extent,there is no point in answering to the "can we have the IoW back" or"when is the problem with the full-lores solved" threads over and over again and they aren't allowed to spoil stuff they want to do in the future either,so there is a very limited amount of stuff they can actually talk about,but it still feels awkward.

Sneak DogJan 17, 20158 votes

I mean i can understand them to some extent,there is no point in answering to the "can we have the IoW back" or"when is the problem with the full-lores solved" threads over and over again and they aren't allowed to spoil stuff they want to do in the future either,so there is a very limited amount of stuff they can actually talk about,but it still feels awkward.

It'd be neat if they answered them once. If they went over the arguments for the IoW and why they don't weigh up against the arguments against the IoW, instead of giving just a dev blog with one good argument against the IoW and at least one false argument (puppetmasters).

CupcakeTrapJan 17, 201515 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sneak Dog,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=sEF8iP8P,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-01-17T16:12:42.583+0000)

It'd be neat if they answered them once. If they went over the arguments for the IoW and why they don't weigh up against the arguments against the IoW, instead of giving just of a dev blog with one good argument against the IoW and at least one false argument (puppetmasters).

http://i.imgur.com/BUkplUO.png "Summoners were all-powerful puppetmasters controlling every Champion. They had so much power that nothing could ever happen without their agreement." http://i.imgur.com/c720zkW.png "Yeah, I wish." http://i.imgur.com/bJMtpSw.png "Bitch, I'm still waiting on those potions." http://i.imgur.com/c720zkW.png "Yes ma'am."

GenoXxJan 17, 20154 votes

Yeah, i dont even pay attention to the same spammed requests. But they really arent doing anything. Nonetheless, even Communicating. As it looks to me, they don't have one and i was going to take this discussion to GD because more Rioters communicate more there. Hopefully since Narrative dont even look at the section of boards, they can at least deliver the message.

5thYLJan 17, 20157 votes

RIP

Dankplank420Jan 17, 20157 votes

As I see it, there is absolutely no point in having a deep lore in the game unless you are also reflecting it through the actual game as well. Dota does it right, while the lore is kinda meh to read, you actually "see" it in games with all of the heroes interacting with each other. I don't care in League that Garen and Lux are siblings, because they never do anything with it in-game. In Dota I know that Lina and CM are sisters because they constantly bicker/talk to each other. I would love to have that kind of interaction in League, and while they are partially doing it, there is no reason to think they'd ever go back and give all the champions that need interactions with each other those interactions.

EverTokkiJan 17, 20156 votes

The new lores would be good if it actually was based on meaningful stuff to the champions. Before, we liked to know about their background and why they joined League. Now, since the goal was to get out of that whole 'League' thing, there needs to be a new reason why these champions came to the league, or at least of their background. The lores nowadays seemed like they tell little/nothing about the champion but only their appearances, or a lifetime story they had once in their life.

Their splash arts seem to be based off all this one pose and many of them has gloomy/blueish lighting. This is what I'm disappointed about. I like Riot's though abut changing up the game a bit. I don't like it when it changes up the feelings that the character had before.

Just to clarify, did the 'summoners are gone from game' thingy in action? I hated that idea. Also, I've heard last year that they were removing the whole "League" idea. Is that still in place as well?

MotajoJan 17, 20154 votes

{quoted}Just to clarify, did the 'summoners are gone from game' thingy in action? I hated that idea. Also, I've heard last year that they were removing the whole "League" idea. Is that still in place as well?

Both were wiped out with at once. While some reds apparently deny that summoners were retconned, the Summoners we are actually talking about were. I can only assume that those who deny it mean wizards that pull beings from elsewhere, instead of the "radio support" Summoners we meant.

EverTokkiJan 18, 20156 votes

While some reds apparently deny that summoners were retconned,

I hope they clean out their sh*t. Every Red has like, a different view/fact on this topic. I don't even know what's left of the whole LoL story. They should stick to one story and tell it in detail. They just keep denying stuff that they have done and just cover'em up. :(

Summoners we are actually talking about were. I can only assume that those who deny it mean wizards that pull beings from elsewhere, instead of the "radio support" Summoners we meant.

:'( :'( RIP Summoners :'( Summoners were unique to this game, and that's why people liked it as well. ~~Seriously then why does nexuses even exist since there are no summoners that are controlling the champions jeez~~ The League was a unique factor as well. Apparently, since League doesn't exist anymore, why the fuck are champions fighting? Every aspect of the game is being contradicted if they remove these backgrounds. srsly I hate their idea of having to remove these.

NarasimhaJan 19, 20151 votes

Apparently, since League doesn't exist anymore, why the fuck are champions fighting? Every aspect of the game is being contradicted if they remove these backgrounds. srsly I hate their idea of having to remove these.

They've actually outright said it before, the lore and the gameplay are now two entirely separate things. What happens in the lore may impact the game, but the game has (currently) no influence on the lore.

EverTokkiJan 19, 20152 votes

If they're separate now, I don't see why they're keeping it. What's the purpose of lores anymore if it has no connection to each other??

NarasimhaJan 19, 20151 votes

Same reason why Skyrim has all those books filled with random tales. Same reason why Planescape: Torment is often touted as the best RPG ever. Same reason why people wander around a virtual world.

Because it doesn't have to be the best, or the most relevant, or the most interesting story. It just has to expand the breadth and depth of the world that much more. I can play the game to kick people's asses, and read the story to see who I'm kicking ass with.

Grand ViperJan 19, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Same reason why Skyrim has all those books filled with random tales. Same reason why Planescape: Torment is often touted as the best RPG ever. Same reason why people wander around a virtual world.

Because it doesn't have to be the best, or the most relevant, or the most interesting story. It just has to expand the breadth and depth of the world that much more. I can play the game to kick people's asses, and read the story to see who I'm kicking ass with.

Same reason why Planescape: Torment is often touted as the best RPG ever.

Same reason why Planescape: Torment

Planescape: Torment

UPDATED MY JOURNAL. UPDATED MY JOURNAL. UPDATED MY JOURNAL. UPDATED MY JOURNAL. UPDATED MY JOURNAL. UPDATED MY JOURNAL.

Seriously though, I grew up with the game.

** Vhailor: When the injustice is great enough, Justice will lend me the strength needed to correct it. None may stand against it. It will shatter every barrier, sunder any shield, tear through any enchantment and lend its servant the power to pass sentence. Know this: there is nothing on all the Planes that can stay the hand of justice when it is brought against them. It may unmake armies. It may sunder the thrones of gods. Know that for ALL who betray Justice, I am their fate... and fate carries an Executioner's Axe. ** The Nameless One: I see. Vhailor: No, you do NOT see. Pray you NEVER will.

NarasimhaJan 20, 20151 votes

Pretty sure Morte is still the best sidekick anyone could ever have.

Though my favorite saying has to be the simplest one of all: What can change the nature of a man?

Grand ViperJan 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Pretty sure Morte is still the best sidekick anyone could ever have.

Though my favorite saying has to be the simplest one of all: What can change the nature of a man?

Just a minor deviation, are you looking forward to Torment: Tides of Numenterra as much as I am? Because honestly, I'm stoked as all hell about it. Morte is a classic, absolutely solid character, but that's a testament to good writing. The entire premise of the game runs on that one, singular question and is the underlying theme which is shown through every character you speak to, every NPC recruit, every facet of the game runs around this singular question and weaves an amazing narrative because of it. The characters have stuck with me to this day because of how much of an impact that game made on me when I was young.

For those who don't know what we are blabbering on about, Morte is the first NPC you meet in the game, and is one of the funniest, dialogue heavy NPC's with a fairly complex character, and he's a floating skull. That's it. No shiny shoulder plates, no super rad hair, he's just a skull, and he's absolutely fantastic. The premise is fairly simple, but because he's constantly developed, he was constantly looked after by the narrative, weaved into the world, you can have something as simple as a talking skull be the best friend you could ever have and have you believe it.

NarasimhaJan 20, 20151 votes

In all honesty, I'm a little apprehensive. ANYTHING with the name Planescape has a lot to live up to. While I'm definitely interested in the continuation, I sincerely hope its taken so long because they've done it RIGHT.

And to elaborate, Planescape: Torment was huge because of how incredibly character and dialogue driven it was. You actually got more XP and bonuses from dialogue than combat. The world itself was very interactive and adaptive, with even equipping an item leading to some scenarios. If you haven't played, I heartily recommend doing so.

Grand ViperJan 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

In all honesty, I'm a little apprehensive. ANYTHING with the name Planescape has a lot to live up to. While I'm definitely interested in the continuation, I sincerely hope its taken so long because they've done it RIGHT.

And to elaborate, Planescape: Torment was huge because of how incredibly character and dialogue driven it was. You actually got more XP and bonuses from dialogue than combat. The world itself was very interactive and adaptive, with even equipping an item leading to some scenarios. If you haven't played, I heartily recommend doing so.

Absolutely makes sense, makes sense to be apprehensive about any game really these days. But, I do own Wasteland 2, and it's not Fallout, it's a proper sequel to Wasteland 1, and it is really quite fantastic. I know for a fact that it won't be a bad game by any measure, but as you said, it has quite the torch to carry.

Also as a fun fact, I found out the other day: Xypherous designed Riven's sword after Dak'kon's Karach blade, down to how it forms and how she uses it via willpower.

ModCaptainMårvelousJan 17, 20156 votes

I wouldn't say that, to be honest. I mean as of late we've gotten:

1.) Lore videos and events that haven't been previously attempted in scope. 2.) Short stories that, while available only on the boards right now, are actively being released. 3.) Actual releases that bring lots of content along with new champion/stories. (See: Sion's rebirth, Shurima, Kalista's pre-release, etc)

While I think it's odd that we're losing the lore paragraphs, let's try to compare the lore events (NOT player made) that happened before the retcon...

1.) Ionia vs. Noxus 2.) The Crystal Scar release

And...that's it. The journal of justice did some neat things but by-and-large it was mostly small, day-to-day jokes as opposed to canonical lore developments. Are there exceptions, of course. But most of the time it was more so "Yeah some stuff happened...now let's talk about TF farting in a bar"

I'm going to get really hated, but I prefer the direction it went even if it means losing the institute. As of now, we're getting more information about champions and more world-building that can be both silly and serious. And best of all (At least IMO) the quality has only been improving. Freljord was meh, Shurima was better but still working on it, Rebirth was god damn amazing and Rek'sai's logs were pretty damn fascinating.

Say what you will, but you can't just simply say "OH WELL NOTHING CHANGED AND NOTHING IS BEING DONE" because that's just wrong.

A Superb VillainJan 17, 20151 votes

It would be more appropriate to say things did change and something is being done, just not at a rate many are enthusiastic about.

ModCaptainMårvelousJan 17, 20152 votes

A completely fair statement and something I agree with. I wish they were doing more but I don't know the internal situation of the lore team right now. They could be trying to get more people together and such or it may be completely fine and they're dragging their heels.

GenoXxJan 18, 20153 votes

If that was the case they can at least Tell us whats going on.

XonraJan 18, 20153 votes

{quoted}

I wouldn't say that, to be honest. I mean as of late we've gotten:

1.) Lore videos and events that haven't been previously attempted in scope. 2.) Short stories that, while available only on the boards right now, are actively being released. 3.) Actual releases that bring lots of content along with new champion/stories. (See: Sion's rebirth, Shurima, Kalista's pre-release, etc)

While I think it's odd that we're losing the lore paragraphs, let's try to compare the lore events (NOT player made) that happened before the retcon...

1.) Ionia vs. Noxus 2.) The Crystal Scar release

And...that's it. The journal of justice did some neat things but by-and-large it was mostly small, day-to-day jokes as opposed to canonical lore developments. Are there exceptions, of course. But most of the time it was more so "Yeah some stuff happened...now let's talk about TF farting in a bar"

I'm going to get really hated, but I prefer the direction it went even if it means losing the institute. As of now, we're getting more information about champions and more world-building that can be both silly and serious. And best of all (At least IMO) the quality has only been improving. Freljord was meh, Shurima was better but still working on it, Rebirth was god damn amazing and Rek'sai's logs were pretty damn fascinating.

Say what you will, but you can't just simply say "OH WELL NOTHING CHANGED AND NOTHING IS BEING DONE" because that's just wrong.

We didn't have lore videos before because of budget or lack of teams to do them - issues, not because they didn't want to. We had more fleshed out stories with much more content to go with the stories outside of the ADHD shiny video for 30 seconds to a minute. Not sure how far back you are talking as far as there never being events before or what events exactly you are referring to so can't fully comment on that in this comment directly.
We have had short stories, long stories, details back stories, art with stories, stories on stories on stories. the stories they are releasing now are far from being "actively released". The lore team is currently about as active as my mother's 14 year old cat, which is to say....it does nothing all day then randomly runs by to remind you it isn't dead before it goes back to sleep.
The content coming out has nothing to do with the stories most of the time. No one really liked the start of the Shurima event as a whole (lore wise specifically) and while some people played the game mode it was actually not as popular or played as much (Riot even announced that the "big" icon for it is the current most rare summoner icon as less than 10% of the LoL community player wise owns it). There has been NO other content lore wise with any releases outside of short videos every now and then but that isn't new to the new lore, that was done before, people just seem to forget that. Regardless, Kalista, Sion, and Shurima were far from "lots of content". Sion had some lore and yes the rework was good, the Shurima lore was bad and there really wasn't much as there as massive gaps of "and then what?" still there, the Freljord event and even the Harrowing with the release of Elise was far more impressive, and Kalista....yeah no. There really wasn't much of an event or tons of content there. Jinx had more content than that.

We've lost more than quadruple the amount of lore compared to what has been presented.

Also there were plenty of events that happened before the ACTUAL retcon, riot is just suddenly going "uh...yeah that happened with the retcon...yep" even though some of it was a year or more before this garbage retcon ACTUALLY happened.

Elise being released and the re-envisioning of Twisted Treeline and all of the Harrowing Event, yes that was all lore related

Jinx - She got an entire music video - Lore related - still have all the stuff about her and Vi, are they sisters, etc. That was pretty cool with those two.

Spirit Guard Udyr - Had a comic and it was quite an event if you remember as well as a very popular skin for a (at the time) very unpopular champion (has changed a bit since) - Lore related

What about the Twist of Fate video...which was pre retcon (was in 2013) and even says it was created to "get players up close and personal with champions" ...so they could eventually completely do the opposite and get us as far and impersonal with the champions as possible the with retcon (they've added nothing so far since to get me invested with any of the new lore except sort of Rek'Sai but not really)

While they have conveniently added in Howling Abyss stuff to the new lore, at the time that event happened it actually wasn't part of the Recton since there was no mention of changing the lore or removing parts of it by any means. It added a new champion, changed quite a few, gave us a re-imagining of the ..what was at the time tutorial map that turned into the ARAM map.

Here is one you probably don't even know existed - The Great Hunt - I don't remember everything about it but didn't want to bother googling for every detail. this was partially a "sale" event but it was a LORE event talking about an event celebrated by yordles, etc.

So you are sort of way off base saying there were little to not events before the Recon because that is outright false. Some people would just prefer you believe that so all the half-ass things coming out or that have came out with this retcon are so cool and new and never before done when that is a complete lie.

ModCaptainMårvelousJan 18, 20157 votes

1.) We had cinematics before. In fact they had one for dominion. I'll give you a shocking fact though: None of these were lore related. The most "lore relation" to a cinematic we had was Swain and J4 being rivals. Outside of that, we got pitiful few cinematics. "But riot didn't ha-" Riot completely had the budget after season II. They just didn't choose to use it. Perhaps it wasn't popular, perhaps otherwise.

The cinematics we got back, however, are not just "ADHD" videos. Shurima had a huge story with very minimalistic art assets, mostly using the stained-glass style. Kalista's video was her pursuing someone. The harrowing itself had almost NO champions and was completely world building. If you're chalking up lore to strictly writing, you're going to be disappointed. You can only build a world through text up to a point. From there, you should welcome new media, not reject it.

2.) Not really. The most we got of champion stories were league judgements that most of the original cast didn't have. You think the lore team is slow now? Ahaha, man, I still remember only Ryze having the only judgement in the original 40 IIRC. Most champs weren't even touched and Riot stopped doing them. What we have now goes beyond just looking into a champion's mind. Now we see them interact with others, we see them live in the world and try to justify their actions as opposed to simply remove the third parties because "it's a flashback with summoners!". I vastly prefer seeing Xerath make his decisions on the fly as opposed to cutting out the tension mid-story with "hey why do you wanna be in the league?"

3.) Now you're just using secondary/tertiary statistics to try and justify the event being a flop. In that case, the Freljord event was even MORE popular because more people play ARAM. The icon isn't rare because nobody played the event, it's rare because it was legitimately hard to achieve. Let's go further: Not only do these events give us new stories and updated champions, we get new dialogue, new interactions, a new insight to the actual story from the perspective of the people in it.

As for the "and then what" argument, let me reference why people were mad about Freljord having no legitimate conclusion: Foremost, people got tired of it and people wanted to see new stuff. You can't spend an entire year-plus fleshing out a zone and leaving everyone else to rot. Secondly, if they had finished Freljord and given a huge story conclusion and gave 2-3 more patches devoted to that alone...well that's awesome but what about everyone else? The main problem here isn't that they can't finish a story, the problem is they can't freely focus on one area to completion so, instead, they set the groundwork and then try to update every other area to a good enough place.

But let's talk about the content you proposed. And here's the kicker:

How many of those reference the League? At all?

Jinx? Nope. Elise? Nope. SGU? Not one bit. Twist of Fate? Don't see it. Freljord? Not at all.

Ironically, these events which you praise so much have absolutely NO connection to the old lore! They don't talk about summoners, they don't talk about the Institute, they do nothing but expand upon a champion's personal story. Now the argument "Well we want the league back because you can tell amazing stories with it!" holds a little less weight because, well, they've done it. Is every event handled well? Of course not, Shurima was the second attempt at an enormous region-based patch and even then freljord was met with a lot of criticism (Some of it completely fair).

So, in the end, the lore team has been at work and making lore not related to the League for ages. "But then why are they slowing down now?" Simply put, they might be scared. After an absolutely poorly handled retcon announcement (Totally 100% Riot's fault), people got slammed with death threats, abusive remarks, etc. Thus, a lot of people probably jumped ship and didn't want to be part of it. Do I think they were right with the announcement? Nope. Do I think the backlash they received was worth it? Again, super nope. So the team is scared to come back, least another "Hey we thought about changing x" be met with throat-slitting. There are one or two exceptions but, otherwise, most people are afraid to approach.

At it's core, we haven't had the League for a while. I think the last champion who mentioned the League itself was....Darius or Draven? Almost two years ago IIRC. Since then, they've pushed content out, made some great character/stories and finally asked themselves "Should we leave the league in or not? We're doing well without it so far so..."

Again, the retcon announcement was handled poorly but to say that such content hasn't been made since the retcon announcement? An awful statement, honestly.

Grand ViperJan 19, 20154 votes

{quoted} Snip

Sorry for shortening it, but I have a lengthy reply.

1) I agree with you 100% that writing is not the only medium that can convey Lore or convey storytelling, especially in the world of League of Legends. What I will say is that they are inaccessible.They're not on the main League website and there's no way you can really go revisit them outside of youtube or the lolwiki page.

I wouldn't say that the Freljords event's success should be gauged on how often ARAM is played. The two are pretty independent of one another, after all, since you can't really pick Ashe vs Sejuani and there is no real "Queen" of the Freljords. There is no continuation, there is no plot, there is just people doing things. The ARAM map itself brings in some lore, of course it does, but people are not citing it to be an amazing, epic sweeping narrative because of what else the Freljords event had done.

In the case of many champions, they had been made into new characters. It can't be disputed that Current Trundle is not anything like his old iteration in terms of themes, appearance and character aside from him being a troll. Ashe was drastically changed as well, and I'll be using her as the key example here:

I'm going to cite an old post I made in the now archived Lore discussion forum:

Every single time I see the defense of these new characters, from Ashe to Udyr, it pains me because Riot yells at us that it's comic books, that it's interpretation, and to be quite frank that's bs. How can I prove it?

I'm glad you asked.

Anyone who is able to objectively look at the game's structure would be confused by the "lore", or the characters. Since there is no mention of the League, the Summoners or the Institute of War, and any "old" lore that Riot says we wish to cherry pick from is removed from not only the website but the client as well. I have brought it up before that the only way any information that can be coherently searched for is in the LoLwiki, which remains true. The fact that they harp about how it is like "superhero comics", or the recent examples of comparing Batman's iterations from the Dark Knight to Bruce Timm's Batman and whichever else, is not true, because the website is not structured for it.

As for the actual characters themselves, I will show anyone who reads this the glaring problem of saying it is like superhero comics. If we go with the idea that it is based on interpretation, which I define as:

Quote:

the action of explaining the meaning of something.

to bring out the meaning of (a dramatic work, music, etc.) by performance or execution.

to give or provide the meaning of; explain; explicate; elucidate then the characters are being misinterpreted.

The example I will use here is Ashe.

"Former" Ashe's Character Traits:

--> An archer of unmistakable reputation --> A leader and a descendant of one of the original 3 sister tribes --> Humility due to being a victim of hubris --> Idealistic

"Current" Ashe's Character Traits:

--> An archer of unmistakable reputation --> A leader and a descendant of one of the original 3 sister tribes --> Naive --> Idealistic

To clarify hubris, I use the following definition:

Quote:

(in Greek tragedy) excessive pride toward or defiance of the gods, leading to nemesis. Former Ashe thought herself to be awesome and great, so she went out on patrol with her people and they were ambushed. The ambush would have killed them if the Gelid Vortex didn't tear the lot of them to shreds. This was further expounded upon by the Freljord Ashe skin in which she had blonde hair, as this was her original hair color. When she became subject to the Vortex, the sacred storm of the Ursine, her hair turned white and I assume her sense of touch was numbed, but she did not die despite everyone else being slaughtered.

Her hubris killed everyone, but she was spared. This is why she became more refined, more reserved, this is the second layer to the reference of her being an "Ice Queen".

Now the argument can be made that the current Ashe is meant to be the previous incarnation of former Ashe, and that she will become that, but then why do you say it is an interpretation? This is not the intention of an interpretation.

So let's see what they have in common:

Great archer? Check. Leader of a people and a descendant of the former rulers? Check. Idealism? Check. Naivety? Maybe, it can be argued quite easily, so I will say check here too. The hubris? No check.

That is where you get an entirely new character. The removal of this core trait of Ashe is the equivalent of Bruce Wayne never losing his parents. That is not an interpretation of Batman, this is the removal of a core characteristic of Batman.

Without the hubris the rest of the traits can describe hundreds of characters if you don't narrow it down with anything else.

The hubris and Ashe's fall from grace are as defining to me to Ashe's character as Bruce Wayne's parents being murdered was to the character of Batman.

Strange isn't it? Do that same structure with Trundle, with Udyr, with Olaf even, Karma, Warwick, Soraka, and the list just rattles on.

This is my problem with Xerath's reimagining. He is not the same character. Trundle is not the same character. Even Olaf, if you go by the Lore.

And to me, the Judgements didn't cut the tension really. Not any more than these recent short stories do, because the argument can be made that we already know how they currently are, why does it matter what in the past happened to make them who we care about now?

Xerath's Judgement was not cut of tension because we already know he became the archmagus, but it helped punctuate the sad state of his ambitions and how he could have been swayed, he could have been convinced and he was going to step down from his path until he had killed his last chain to our limited world and its understanding by pure accident. He had not planned on harming anyone in his pursuit, anyone at all, but when he lost that last chain, we're reminded that Xerath lost himself in more ways than just his body, he still remembers and he still recalls what he felt and that he is, to a certain degree, despite being a pure being of magic, human at his core as much as he doesn't want to admit it.

The League Judgement cutting in and asking why do you want to join the League expresses his wish to be released from his confines and let him reach the goal that he had sacrificed everything for already.

Or if you want tension, Talon's Judgement did a good job showing he can pierce illusions. The League asking what he wants, and boom, knife to the throat. This could have alluded to him holding a card over LeBlanc, and could lead into an interesting interaction between the two.

Wukong also showed that he was more powerful than summoners by deceiving the illusionists.

Riven's lore makes absolutely no mention of the League, but she receives a League judgement that was powerful enough for me to really like her as a character because it punctuates and helps exemplify her in-game quotes and reasoning.

Saying the Judgements cut the tension I think is unfair to say, since it was the format they ran with at the time and it was a format they used to their advantage in order to tell the story at large. And you are right, it took months between judgements to be released. Granted, I started around the time of Renekton's release and the JoJ and Judgements were not coming out stupidly fast, but there was a schedule of sorts at the least. The JoJ would come out I think once every two weeks and it was a great way to foreshadow champions like Lee Sin.

3) This was not a spontaneous decision to remove the League. Far, far from "spontaneous". I've been harping on it for years, really, because everything post Draven removes any and all mention of the League of Legends. I'd have to dig through hundreds of old forum pages to find my quotes, but do a search on the archived Lore forums of my name and you'll probably find a few dozen threads where I kept bringing it up. It was founded by the fact that Kitae said in an interview that they were going to retcon the IoW and summoners years in advanced: Article in question.

In fact, you have hundreds of threads all clamoring not to do such an action. Saying we're doing perfectly fine without the League while you have everyone always ask every time an AMA comes up "Why does X join the League?" and the answer was silence. Silence, silence silence.

I have more to say about the matter, but a post from Gixia sums up my thoughts about the retcons and the majority of all this storytelling and the lore we've been receiving:

Ironic that all the lore changes keep being made in the name of making the story better, yet every single change makes it harder and harder to get invested in what's going on. Afterall, why bother getting invested in the lore, or even paying any attention to it at all, when everything you know is just gonna be erased and replaced with something completely different next week. Honestly, even if you turned around and released the best damn story in the world tomorrow, what reason would I have to care? Why should I get interested in something that won't just be ignored, but will be outright erased about a year later if a change in leadership decides they want to go down a different path, or hell, if the author just writes him/herself into a corner and isn't skilled enough to get out of it?

As for personal thoughts about how I feel about a lot of these retcons and the removal of the IoW and what it entails, please refer to this post: Hyperlink for post

Thoughts?

Tesla EffectJan 18, 20156 votes

IF there wasnt the Journal of Justice lore, Sions VU story wouldnt have that same impact. The stories are linked, even thought Riot said JoJ isnt canon (but some are, which makes me mad cause Riot cant make up their freaking minds with that series).

Chaotic ReksJan 17, 20154 votes

now the so called "lores" are just shitty and vague descriptions whatsoever. Xerath and Cassiopeia are the 2 biggest offenders IMO.

SukishooJan 17, 20152 votes

The longer lore will be found on the website. They've said this over and over. The lore in the client is but a small taste. Most people don't even look at them anyway.

XonraJan 18, 20156 votes

{quoted}

The longer lore will be found on the website. They've said this over and over. The lore in the client is but a small taste. Most people don't even look at them anyway.

The "longer lore" on champions on the website is the old lore, which doesn't exist anymore.

Person 1: "Where can I find the lore now, it is just a small comment on this champion in the client" Person 2: "Website durr" Person 1: checks website "You mean the lore they haven't bothered either removing or changing that is the old lore that has been sitting there a few years...the lore that was retconned?" Person 2 "uuuuuuuuuh.....Riot said it would be there...cause ya know...they said it..." Person 1: facepalms Person 2: "It's fine, I mean...most people don't look anyway, so it's fine that things are incorrect or half finished"

Tesla EffectJan 18, 20154 votes

They fired all the people that wrote proper lore. I wonder how long is this gonna keep up until people move on to something better? Gameplay is good and all, but without a story to hold it in place there really isnt a point to playing the game anymore. If I want the same LoL experience, Ill just play Flappy Birds or something.

HigeRJan 18, 20153 votes

I honestly think the lore team is between a rock and a hard place... they're actively working to satisfy everyone but since they cannot deliver it on the ideal format, like they said a while ago, then they're pretty much hand tied and saying the same thing over and over would probably wear thin on the fanbase, hence the silence...

I wonder if one of the tech dudes could come and talk about the hurdles that the lore team is fighting against so we could start talking about lore again around here.

GenoXxJan 18, 20152 votes

Yeah, something like that. I sadly think(if that happens) that Narrative is going to say the same thing and go back in their caves....

Killer of PorosJan 19, 20152 votes

If they planned to do this and stick with it. they should have at least prepared to present us with most of the ideas they planned on using. I can understand if the lore team wants to do a couple shock reveals every once in a while but if they keep doing it it will become more frustrating since the community has no way of giving feed back whether it be good or bad. We have no clue whats happening so we have nothing to say or do except wonder why the lore team didn't prepare most of their content before staging a huge upheaval.