I found the amount of shirtless guys in league offensive

GenoXx··188 votes·14,515 views

Ahem!

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/kxW_X.cdAO7qMjfjFQ1Crg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3NfbGVnbztpbD1wbGFuZTtxPTc1O3c9NjAw/http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/sports/2015-04-13/0dcaee10-e233-11e4-b2b5-21f03bb56267_willy-wonka-gene-wilder.jpg

I as a non- muscle bound guy found the fact that 80% of leagues do not wear shirts offensive . Why would a guy go to battle with no shirt on? That doesn't fit appropriately for people who are fighting battles and putting they lives on the line. I feel that Riot is doing this on purpose as a fan service to appeal to the _female fans of league. _

Braum should be wearing a ironclad armor that shows no skin at all. Same goes for Tryndramere. They are all from the Freljord, they should be wearing more appropriate attire that fits the north. Why does Jayce have a Bachelor suit on in his debonair skin? Is that used to show more appeal to female fans? I just don't think it's fair.

Riot shouldn't be producing these male champions. I feel Every single male that is shirtless should cover that up. The champions Riot produces _promotes an unrealistic expectation of how men's bodies should look. _

Seriously this needs to stop. Appealing to the females is totally unfair to to the male fans.

341 Comments

PDE5 Inhibitors125 votes

Post is regarded as a joke or trolling thread.

Replace male with female and suddenly it's a real problem? Silly feminists xD

GenoXx46 votes

Exactly

T RexHasTinyArms25 votes

While I'm actually pretty in agreement w/ the fact that it's not a huge issue (in large part bc I think the way females are portrayed in games like this is more embarrassing for the guys than the girls, ie there's a reason the nerdy gamer who can't get an actually attractive girl irl stereotype exists), I do think that you could totally make an argument the other way.

I like the post and think it's funny, but anyone who goes "OMG clearly there's no issue w/ the representation of women in games and the media" is an idiot who doesn't understand basic math. Let's look at the statistics- Women w/out skimpy outfits and traditional idealized body types (for at least the upper half of their body): Annie, Illaoi, Rek Sai (who most people call "him" and isn't human) Guys who don't have skimpy outfits or idealized body type: Mundo, Ekko, GP, Gragas, Jax, Karthus, Kassadin, Swain, and this isn't even counting the non human champs that are male, so if we count Rek Sai there's a ton more guys we count.

2 girls, like at least a half dozen guys. If I hired 1 guy for every 3 girls I hired to do something like accounting or care sales people would flip out (or if I hired 3 guys for every 1 girl). So yeah, it's something that gets blown way the fuck out of proportion, but mostly that happens bc if it's not out of proportion then guys like the one you responded to don't think it exists bc they're too stupid to count.

/end rant /begin down votes from angry mob

Edit: Holy shit I was way too tired when I wrote this. Definitely shit job of pulling comparison bc the number of guys is way bigger in league than girls (so the % of sexualized champs of that gender is lower), Kass has a skin that rules him out, and Gragas is a shirtless bear in his base skin for fucks sake. :D Still point is that the issue is way more complex than simple and while the post is pretty funny, comments that demean the discussion out side of this post are pretty ignorant. I mean if for no other reason than that I could make a decent argument this isn't a troll post the highest up voted comment is one that reflects poorly on the community. (Argument goes that the rate of body dysmorphia in men in the US has skyrocketed in the past decade, and the vast majority of behavior from men that falls in the self harming due to body image issues category in the US is in the realm of men who believe they aren't buff enough and become obsessed with always wanting more muscle no matter how big they get.)

Sharjo9 votes

You're speaking the truth, and believe me when I say there are many people who totally get where you're coming from and understand, I mean hell I'm one of them. It's not like anyone here doesn't recognize that female representation in games and media in general could use a swift kick up the arse sometimes, and tons of people agree! Sometimes it just gets a bit tiring hearing people complain about the lack of proper representation though, simply because there's SO MUCH OF IT sometimes.

Folks understand and many of us care too, but some of us also don't find it so substantially egregious when the representation isn't the best. I mean I've been hoping for a champ like Illaoi for ages, but that doesn't mean I look at the other female champions and say "ugh, look at this, clearly designed for the sex appeal. DISGUSTING", because that's dumb.

I suppose the tl;dr is: everyone likes being represented, but a lack of it doesn't lessen what women are showcased. Some are blatantly created for sex appeal, but a character, or anyone having sex appeal isn't a bad thing.

Blegh. Feels so sanitizing talking about this stuff since it feels like the fence I'm dashing over to try and talk to both sides is gradually wearing down my balls. WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO PROPERLY CONVEY AND NOT MAKE PEOPLE MAD GAH

Spizzle900025 votes

I personally think you're forgetting Lissandra, Quinn, Diana, Jinx, Kalista, Kayle, Leona, and Orianna. Not to say they're unattractive (although I do find Jinx very creepy, same with Orianna), but they're not shirtless or with huge breasts. They are not hyper-sexualized or anything. That's 13 humanoid women and 8 humanoid men. There are also a lot more men in LoL than there are women.

So, there's roughly 85 male champions in LoL and 43 women.

For men, it's an 8:78 ratio of non-idealized body types to idealized. For women, that's 13:30. I didn't count any Yordles or non-humanoids, such as Rek'Sai or other voidborn, for non-idealized body types. They just went in with the others. I'm pretty sure 13:30 is a higher ratio than 8:78.

But, you have a valid point, so up-vote.

HighH13 votes

{quoted}

I personally think you're forgetting Lissandra, Quinn, Diana, Jinx, Kalista, Kayle, Leona, and Orianna.

Vi,Irelia,Ilaoi,Vayne

EDIT: Not Vayne item 3070 Vayne item 3070 EDIT 2: Or Vi apparently item 3070 Vi item 3070

Spizzle90001 votes

I think they mentioned Illaoi in their post, but, Irelia, Vayne, and Vi are pretty good additions. Although Vi does have a nice butt, I really hate unnatural hair colors and facial piercings.

T RexHasTinyArms1 votes

Wait are you really adding vayne when heart seeker vayne exists?

Baron of Bread5 votes

Her regular look is wearing a skin tight leather body suit. I don't think you need to mention her skins to take her off the list.

T RexHasTinyArms6 votes

Damn, you're right I totally forgot to account for ratio discrepancy in the genders. You make a really good point, I was just trying to say that it was a more complex issue and it gets missed a lot of the time when people over simplify.

For the record though I didn't miss some of those, I just counted skins as well. IE pool party leona knocks her out, and while I think Kalista is actually a really good point bc she's "human" but a really different concept, I'd argue that most of the others have a traditionally "attractive" body type albeit w/out large breasts (Jinx is creepy, but body type wise actually somewhat similar to a bdsm model I dated once). That's way too much consideration and actual exploration of the topic which I'm not terribly interested in bc it's league forums not gender issues :D

PS it tickles me that I was right about getting a bunch of down votes and the most up voted comment is one that isn't inherently raging at what I said. :P

Spizzle90007 votes

Yup. Remember, any time you see feminist articles or whatever, just replace the word 'men' with 'women' and that's how you know if what they're saying is sexist or not. If they're talking about just general common decency, that's cool. Whatever. But if I said femininity was so damn fragile and pathetic like many feminists (the ones who really don't care about equality at all) will say about masculinity, people would riot.

Not to mention all of the body positive stuff a lot of feminists talk about and the plus-size models they have in photo shoots supporting body positivity, well, how many overweight men do you see there? And how come feminists don't also protest the violent crimes committed against men when men are more likely to be a victim of a violent crime than women?

I don't support discrimination in the slightest. That's why I'm pointing this out.

PandemoniumHeart16 votes

The issue with trying to treat "men" and "women" as if they're interchangeable in discussions of gender is that it fundamentally misunderstands how different the two are in society.

We live in a society that, in many ways, favours men over women. Historically, this has been true; looks at issues like the vote, women's workers rights, sexism an discrimination in the workplace. And it remains true; America has still never had a female president, the vast majority of the government in most countries is male, men tend to make up the wealthiest of the world and run the biggest businesses as well. If you want power and wealth, it's a lot easier to get it as a male than it is a woman, who tend to face a lot more obstacles to obtain those things.

This reflects itself across media too, with most mainstream films, television, and video games often running with more male protagonists or male -centred narratives than female. The bechdel test is really good gauge for this, as really basic standard of female representation a lot of pieces of media fail to meet.

Which is not to say that men don't have problems, or that men don't have unique gender issues. But feminism, and women, are coming from a reasonable understanding of the world as a place where they are unfavoured compared to men. And they would best know that; many of them have experienced it.

Which is why they are well within their right to focus on issues pertaining to women. It annoys me when anti-feminists want to make the argument, "but what about men? Why aren't you talking about male issues, or male representation?"

The issues of male and female representation are not so tied that you can't talk about one without the other. And with how different societal ideals are of men and women, it's perfectly reasonable to focus on one at the exclusion of another.

Feminists aren't generally stopping you, or anyone, if you want to discuss male representation, male violence and the like and advocate for those issues.

The issue comes when men want to only advocate for those things as a response to feminism - a reaction - rather than trying to be proactive on the issue, making your own discussions on these issues separate from feminism.

If you're fine with how men are represented in games, it's cool - but that has little to do with whether or not women should be fine with how they're being represented.

Similarly, if you want advocate for change in how men are represented in games, you can do that without questioning why feminists aren't.

Spizzle90003 votes

You have a good, long, wall of text that has many valid points. I like those. :D

The main reason that men and women aren't completely 100% equal in every single way is because men have ruled for thousands of years, and only recently have women been given equal rights and the access to education and stuff they weren't allowed to have before. Of course they're not going to have equality after a handful of decades. It's unfortunate that that is how the world is, but that's how it is.

And, a bit of a tangent, if women are so eager to get into male-dominated roles, why aren't they talking about having more women involved in manual labor such as construction work, mechanics, factory work, etc., and getting more men into typically female-dominated roles, such as secretarial positions? Mostly because (most) women choose to be the primary care-taker of kids. That's okay. That's how biology works.

And, you have a point. It's perfectly reasonable to focus on one side of the issue as long as you don't hurt the other side. But why I point it out is because there are some god damn hypocrites out there who only focus on women's rights but call everyone who focuses on the rights of men a misogynistic swine. I fucking hate hypocrites. I'm sick of every single person alive except the highest few getting fucked over before we're even conceived.

Okay /end rant. But, yes, you have completely valid points. +1.

PandemoniumHeart5 votes

Thanks for the nice reply.

Yes, it's true that the long history of male rule is the reason why equality has not been reached - but that's why feminism and women's advocacy remains important.

There are women out there trying to promote women into more skilled trades - but there are a lot of hurdles for women in these fields, which are often rife with sexism (something my sister went through a bit trying to be an electrician). Trying to deal with sexist attitudes in society, promoted in part through media, will hopefully help lead to better equality in these fields in the future, or open up the door a bit more.

Advocating on men's issues is not much a focus for feminism as a whole, for clear reasons. But destabilizing gender roles will also hopefully lead to more opportunites for men in traditionally-female dominated fields as well.

Mostly because (most) women choose to be the primary care-taker of kids. That's okay. That's how biology works.

Let's not underrate the social aspect that comes with women are care-giver. Women are constantly bombarded with the idea that they have to/should be mothers and should live for their kids, at the cost of any other pursuit - including career advancements.

Men are also hurt on the other side of the coin. One of the biggest things men's rights advocates tend to bring up is not receiving custody as often as women in divorce cases. But that has to do with societal ideas of women being caregiver, and men not be; society can often encourage men away from more caregiving, nurturing roles.

Both genders could benefit from the destabilizing of gendered ideas of caregiving, so as to keep options and opportunities open for both genders.

But why I point it out is because there are some god damn hypocrites out there who only focus on women's rights but call everyone who focuses on the rights of men a misogynistic swine. I fucking hate hypocrites. I'm sick of every single person alive except the highest few getting fucked over before we're even conceived.

Certainly, there are extremists in every faction and feminists who would attack advocacy on men's issues without instigation are likely in the wrong.

Though I think the issue a lot of feminists tend to get into with those focusing on men's rights issues is this: A lot of men's rights advocates tend to try to argue with feminists, or pin their problems on women/feminists, when that's really not a good group to pin it on given the power structure of society.

Amen to the last sentence though.

T RexHasTinyArms4 votes

It's actually really funny that the OP brings up the body image issue stuff. I didn't post about it in my other post bc I mostly just wanted to point out that people over simplify, but there is a lot of emerging research saying that OP is actually complaining about a really legitimate issue. In the past decade the gap in gender regarding body dysmorphic issues has dropped by a huge amount. It's still more common for women to have eating disorders over body image issues, but the rate of men harming their health because of body image issues has gone up astronomically in the past 10 years when it was actually pretty rare.

Also while, yeah, maybe we need more stuff to address violence w/ men you're kind of skewing stats when it comes to violence as a gender issue there. It would be really interesting to see how much of the violence men are exposed to is influenced by the way men are cultured in the states to "be tough" and "not back down" and shit, but when it comes to gender issues in violence it's really easy to see why there is a heavy focus on women. Women are significantly more likely to be the victims of opposite gender violence than men are (although iirc men are significantly less likely to report the violence or seek any help regarding the issue, which is a pretty big thing that should be addressed and really isn't), and have ridiculously higher rates of being the victims of sexual assault compared to men (again the sub section of research that addresses both gender and sexual orientation isn't something I'm as familiar with, but I think it's even more of a difference when you adjust for sexual orientation bc the rate of sexual violence against gay men is higher than against men in the general population).

I think there's a lot of issues that guys don't get shit for representation which is kind of why I tend to not be much of an advocate for women's issues, but the argument "treat the issue the same for both genders" is sort of like saying you should treat a basketball player who is 5 ft 5 in the same as one who is 7 ft 2 in. The circumstances and options for both players are totally different and what might be a great thing for one would be shitty for the other (IE if you can't dunk, but have great ball handling that's fine for a player who is 5 ft 5 in, but if you're 7 ft 2 in an can't dunk you probably don't have the athleticism to move fast enough to punish the defense when they fall for your cross over)

Aunuxa4 votes

It not silly feminism. It is our take on it. Although the intent of the OP might be a joke I do agree with it. It's stupid to have a double standard. I think way to many champions splash arts are too sexually explicit for a game with an E rating. An example is Irelia frost skin compared to Leona pool party skin. No one bends the way Irelia does in that splash art while Leona is a fairly realistic. In terms of the male champions yes some of them simply do not make sense especially Tryndamere and Braum. That being said, this is still a game so all forms of a character will be exaggerated. Just hopefully not with the intent of being sexist.

Ebonmaw Dragon45 votes

I find the lack of Male Dragon Champions in league offensive

Skelenth18 votes

If this is a call for more dragon champions...

You have my Axe!

Ebonmaw Dragon18 votes

{quoted}

If this is a call for mor dragon champions...

You have my Axe!

"More" dragon champions? i dont see any Dragon Champ.

a half is nothing

Skelenth18 votes

Well... One Half is still more than Zero... slowly goes backwards

Blade of Justic16 votes

{quoted}

If this is a call for more dragon champions...

You have my Axe!

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1ub5u22aJ1r2xijoo1_250.png

kaltenashes1 votes

there is ao shin, as soon as riot upgrade the technology to allow flying controllable dragon main characters on the rift, if i'm not mistaken they were having tech issues with ao shin

Delioth13 votes

I think a large part of it was that they wanted him to be full-on asian dragon, which means very long and not too wide, which means he either has a long, rectangular hitbox that twitches sideways when he changes direction (awkward for both players since it's awkward for dodging skillshots and such, and also not pretty to look at) OR they need tech that makes him more like playing snake with a trailing hitbox... Or a wrapped up thing that kinda writhes through the air- either way needs significantly more tech than they're using now with relatively static hitboxes and few changes (elixir, Nunu's nomnom, Braum's shield, and Zac's hp passive are about the only things that change hitbox size right now, and none change shape).

Spizzle90004 votes

i fnd teh lakc of ptoatoes in leugue ohfenceif

Nahui33 votes

Triggered.

Gwellaouen31 votes

As a woman, I find it okay.

For the females champions who are praticaly shirtless, I do not care a lot. Ok, maybe candy MF: those could hurt her back. XD Janna is one of my main and she praticaly naked. XD I am here to play and not judging on what the champions are wearing. Normaly, it goes with their personality. A big muscle guy like Braum wouldn't be able to find a shirt that fit his body anyway. XD Take another champion : Varus. I don't think he can wears something since something is transforming him bit by bit.

P.S.: Sorry about mistakes in English.

GenoXx22 votes

I don't care either, but alot of other people do. That's the point of this thread.

Spizzle90004 votes

Precisely. If you switch the word "women" with "men" in a lot of faux feminist statements, you sound absolutely ridiculous and people will hate you for saying it. So why don't people hate these feminazis when they say ridiculous things?

Also I need to make this clear, I mean actual sexist things that some hardcore psychopathic feminists say, such as the ones who want to kill 90% of men or put men in concentration camps.

GenoXx6 votes

but i do hate feminazis with a passion

Enchanté3 votes

why the complain for male being shirtless but no complain for female showing side boob or under boob? Why are females going to battles with only her bra and underwear? Isn't this the same as your question up there, "Why would a guy go to battle with no shirt on?" Same thing. Different gender.

right, cuz majority of League players is probably men... and most men likes boobs.. okay make sense.

whatever. As a female I'm offended by your post. Female players deserve fanservice just like how male players do. I don't even find ANY of the shirtless champions here hot enough to scream at. They totally look really normal. Also, the ratio of shirtless male to boob-and-belly-showing female is around 1:2. And you're complaining shit about shirtless man and not about revealing woman.

GENDER EQUALITY.

well since majority here are men, come on and bring the downvotes

Dreamspitter9 votes

{quoted}

why the complain for male being shirtless but no complain for female showing side boob or under boob? Why are females going to battles with only her bra and underwear? Isn't this the same as your question up there, "Why would a guy go to battle with no shirt on?" Same thing. Different gender.

right, cuz majority of League players is probably men... and most men likes boobs.. okay make sense.

whatever. As a female I'm offended by your post. Female players deserve fanservice just like how male players do. I don't even find ANY of the shirtless champions here hot enough to scream at. They totally look really normal. Also, the ratio of shirtless male to boob-and-belly-showing female is around 1:2. And you're complaining shit about shirtless man and not about revealing woman.

GENDER EQUALITY.

well since majority here are men, come on and bring the downvotes

Just a note here, I think it is a bit different. I feel for example, a lack of clothes or armor (and even design of "armor") serve different purposes. So a bare chested male designed character can convey something very different than a female one also in less clothing.

Curious what you think about this -If you want to see the post that drove GenociderX to say

{quoted}

Inb4 my marvelous plan to fish you out as one of the primary feminist this thread is dedicated to.

http://images-cdn.moviepilot.com/images/c_fill,h_196,w_500/t_mp_quality_gif/efw9jzp3pf806adzxbny/the-real-reason-the-joker-wasn-t-in-the-dark-knight-rises-482743.gif

Well, here's how it started

{quoted}

Ftfy.

Majority of then just act like Riot known for making sexy champions and only want it to be that way. And feel like splash arts like Kayle's is sexual, and she has a breast plate boob armor.

#But what about....

That barbarian guy...one of Freljord's greatest warriors. That demon er Darkin, Aatrox led a rival clan against him and killed his people.

A man robbed of his home and his people, Tryndamere wandered across the Freljord for years, vowing to forge himself into a brutal instrument of revenge.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/al_Krlfp4aI/hqdefault.jpg

#Yeah, he's pretty badass, pretty fucking cool.

There's that warrior woman, from that Spartan inspired society. They had a coming of age ritual, where two teens had to fight to the DEATH for the right to claim a relic weapon. But she rebelled against her society and refused to fight, and was sentenced to be executed. That took a lot of courage to stand up to them. Yeah, she's pretty badass and-

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/img/champion/splash/Leona_0.jpg

#Oh....

http://i.imgur.com/0EMfHCR.jpg

You see nothing about Tryndamere interferes with the "hero fantasy" of playing that character. Yes, his still a fantasy warrior, but you can take the idea of him seriously within the setting and he's badass and cool all the way through. Leona though....she's a female warrior with sword, and shield, and...high heels. And that thin skin tight bodysuit too all the way up in the freezing heights of Mt. Targon.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/L6IuQOwKPAA/hqdefault.jpg

And the useless boob plates on her armor, just so you don't forget she has a bust. In fact, EVERY ASPECT of TRYNDAMERE emphasizes BADASS -even the parts that make less sense or would be potentially impractical (barechested, no armor). But all the parts of Leona that don't make sense, don't enhance the heroine fantasy she SHOULD embody...they just emphasize the attractiveness of her body, and fetishistic elements (combat heels).

#Tryndamere is a hero fantasy.

And he fulfills it well. I can see why guys would like to play him.

#Leona is a heroine fantasy.

Imagined by male developers. I can see why guys would like to play her.

The problem with the art and character design in this game, is the fact that female warriors cant be taken as seriously as the male ones. They have weird elements that don't fit the characters. Why would Leona wear combat heels? They don't fit the character, they don't enhance the fantasy of playing the character or the role. It's just....eye candy, it makes her look "hot". Now, some of that might be ok on a character like Leblanc , MissFortune , or whatever but it's just out of place elsewhere.

Now to be honest, there are a fair number of barechested men for contrast.

Braum Brand Kassadin LeeSin Ryze Tryndamere Udyr Varus Yasuo

And what does that emphasize?

#Power. Strength. Might.

Even mages like Ryze , Brand, and Kassadin are buff. You can argue these male characters are sexy, but their attractive attributes are tied in with their visible prowess -even if they're mages that rely on magic. Female characters outfits may be skin tight, or feature cut outs and windows in their clothing, and their splash art poses may (over) emphasize their physique but...they're soft, and supple with useless accouterments, design elements, and "shape language" that don't help the design fulfill the fantasy of who these characters are supposed to be in their lore. They don't even LOOK like they belong on a battlefield.

Eowyn vs The Witch King of Angmar (who couldn't be killed by "any man of woman born") -inspiration behind the new Azir skin.

http://i.imgur.com/w5JvIhD.jpg http://i.imgur.com/R1bzfE4.jpg http://i.imgur.com/EickO8Y.jpg

She doesn't need combat heels, or so many other things to be awesome.

:D

And that's why he went insane. And said something as loony as this.

{quoted}

Omg she has heels because shes a freaking female. The fact that a female having heels ads more to the fact thats shes a female. For her to have them in her concept art makes sense. It is a fantasy game. That would be given to the style of a female. FFS. Wth should leona wear where he chest is? You tell me because anything else would seem very uncomfortable to be wearing for a female.

And felt the need to make this thread (although foe yay trope aside, I don't think this is ALL and ONLY about me)

I think by the end of all these threads, everyone will be insane.

Lovecraftian Apocalypse?

LeeDark5 votes

Funny how you make so many more threads on the topic than anyone else, for someone who supposedly doesn't care.

Keevalroy25 votes

Oh boy here we go. [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Oh wait, most people are actually sane and understand that this a fantasy game and is in no way supposed to be realistic so they're able to laugh at posts like these. My bad.

NazZomLord21 votes

Braum Im sorry that we all cant be as perfect a this man...

Carpe Victoria19 votes

Stop trying to suppress male sexuality. #freethemuscles

Skelenth18 votes

The worst still is Varus. He doesn't even wear any kind of pants. You know what that is? It is his bow. He wears his weapon, he actually is completely naked. This is seriously disturbing if you start thinking about it.

GenoXx4 votes

You honestly ddnt get this thread at all

King Odin15 votes

I don't think you understand that he was being as sarcastic as you were in this thread lol.

Zhire17 votes

topless female champ or riot

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Vistha Kai17 votes

RekSai *annoyed creaks*

CheftoniFTW15 votes

Damn right, Rammus needs to put on a shirt or gtfo! This is a family game!

SeductiveGrandpa8 votes

This thread made me realize something: Gnar Gnar is wearing nothing but a loincloth, for a child Riot this is completely unexceptable, throw some clothes on him right now. This is nearly child porn. AND OH MY GOD. IN MEGA GNAR HE IS COMPLETELY NUDE. Rito please, this is a family game.

The Ecdysiast8 votes

Free the nipple. Urgot

Zyorhist6 votes

and then...there's gragas...

Tebarn51 votes

Urgot is shirtless too. Best fanservice of the game.

Bottom Laner11 votes

Velkoz someday my shirtlessness will be noticed o(

Hex Veiler5 votes

The true strength of a man is his ability to survive the winter without a shirt.

Neamean6 votes

My life has been a lie, I thought a true man strength comes from his beard or mustache.

Ironclad Dragon3 votes

Olaf THE WORTH OF A MAN CAN BE MEASURED BY THE LENGTH OF HIS BEARD AND THE GIRTH OF HIS BELT-BUCKLE.

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