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What if the RNG crit was replaced with a Damage Amp?

Mira Arya Enthe··24 votes·2,473 views

I was thinking, a lot of people dislike crit, dislike losing/winning on only luck, and dislike playing champions who feel like shit until they get enough crit to get reliable procs. What if instead, Crit Chance was replaced with Damage Amp(or some other name) and essentially it functioned like Ashe's passive, champions who bought it would see their attacks boosted by a %. Since it still is an amplifier like Crit/Ashe's passive, it would still be a late game scaling stat that only works well if you already have AD/AS to make use of it. But it wouldn't feel as bad early game and would be more reliable/predictable for both parties. Only bad news is, any crit related items, masteries, runes or abilities would need to be reworked. Ashe would need a new passive. But I think this would be a lot more balance stable, and feel a lot more fair.

Overall this would basically function like crit, have the same overall DPS of crit, but remove the RNG element of crit and make it more stable in early-mid game.

50 Comments

Sahn Uzal8 votes

A big thing you're ignoring here is that Crit would no longer need multiple items to be reliable. Well, you mentioned it, but you're ignoring the consequences it would have. Infinity Edge would probably become a stat stick of flat AD + % Damage on AA's/abilities that interact with crit. Phantomdancer would: Make your AA's deal 130% damage. Give you AS, ignore unit collision and movementspeed AND damage reduction.

Now tell me, what stops any champion like Kled, Shyvana, Vi, Hecarim, Nocturne etc from Picking up a PD, and build their regular item builds from there?

This build Gangplank item 3078 item 1001 item 3142 item 3147 item 3814 item 3031 Currently, the reason this build is not a thing is because it's damage is not exactly good when it doesn't crit, and it's crits are not reliable at all. Now if IE just became this huge %Crit damage + AD-Stick, what prevents this build from becoming meta?

I personally hate the RNG part of Crit Chance, especially as a GP main who feels even more like a gamble than ADC's because he does not 'attack' as often as ADC's do. But you really haven't thought the downsides of it through.

Not to speak of Marksman battles becomming the biggest stat check in history lol

Backup4now2 votes

That build has a 20% chance to crit for 250% damage, an average of 30% more damage on autoattacks (or in gangplank's case, his q/barrels). Which would you rather face, a barrel that deals 500 damage but deals 1250 damage at a 20% chance, or just barrels that deal 650 damage at all times? That build would be complete shit without the 20% chance to deal obnoxious damage.

Sahn Uzal2 votes

... Yes. That build is pretty shit because of how unreliable it is, but if we were to change crit to % damage amp, IE would be a huge stat stick. Which is what this thread is suggesting.

The point I was making is that if we changed Crit to % damage amp, GP wouldn't care for zeal items to increase his reliability.

Backup4now2 votes

Look at what I'm arguing. The build, as it is now, has a 20% chance to be really really strong. Not reliable, but it has its moments. However, as the OP would suggest, a crit->damage amp mod would mean IE's 20%+50%dmg would equal a 30% damage amp. That's even worse than 20% chance of 250%. He would still need more crit to make the damage amp be meaningful. 20% crit -> 20% dmg amp 20%crit+IE -> 30% dmg amp 100% crit-> 100% dmg amp 100%crit+IE-> 150% dmg amp (exactly as it is now)

Sahn Uzal1 votes

IE's damage amp does not scale with your current crit damage tho.

Yasuo gets reduced Crit damage, but IE still gives him that 50% damage amp His Q's have 20% reduced crit damage, so a Q crit without IE is 180% AD, and a crit with IE is 230% AD.

Backup4now1 votes

IE's damage amp does not scale with current crit damage- correct, but that doesn't have anything to do with my argument.

Normal crits add 100% of your AD to your auto attack, IE increases this amount to 150. If you have runes, it increases from 150 to 200. Either way, IE will, on average, increase the effects of a crit by an additional 50. So, on average, 50% crit will increase your dps by 50%; 50% + IE will increase your average dps by 75%. That is why I assumed the OP would want IE to increase the "damage amp" bonus that he wants from crit, rather than just adding an additional 50% crit (which, if we use Ashe's passive as an example, is NOT how it works. It works like I just described it.)

With your Yasuo example, I don't think you could have picked a worse example. I believe Yasuo's Q is one of the few things that DOES influence IE's bonus, and I do believe Yasuo's is 25% less total; so a crit is 150%, and IE makes it 185%.

Sahn Uzal1 votes

I'm pretty damn sure IE just gives Yasuo that 50% total AD bonus.

But alright, let's say you're right.

That GP build would still be shit, but the rest of what I'm saying still stands. Why would Bruisers not just pick up a PD in their item build?

Backup4now1 votes

The same exact reason they don't buy it now. 30% crit is just the "lucky" method of saying 30% increased melee damage; over a large amount of hits, on average it's the same amount of damage. Increasing reliability as the OP states is to remove edge cases where people don't crit at all or crit more often than they should, winning or losing based on that alone. With bruisers, this doesn't matter nearly as much because they take longer to kill or be killed.

More hits-to-die means crit can average out to be very close to what one would expect from damage amp. Changing crit to be reliable is really only for squishy characters, so that someone who started Zeal doesn't get 3 lucky crits and completely annihilate their opponent; that doesn't happen with bruisers as of now, since they wouldn't have died in those lucky crits, or their base damages+scaling would easily outdo the damage that they gain from crit. So more reliability doesn't really matter.

Sahn Uzal1 votes

I think you are underrating the value of reliability here. I am well aware that, over an extended fight, you'll reach the same overall DPS.

You probably won't be attacking an ADC 10+ times as a bruiser. Either they die or you die before that happens.

Backup4now1 votes

Fine. Fine. Ask yourself this: If crit was not only reliable, but also slightly buffed (zeal items give 35% amp, etc), would you take it? I fear not, for if it were worth taking on a bruiser then, it would almost be worth taking now.

Any character that does not normally want crit, will not want crit once it is more reliable. Hecarim kills squishies instantly without it. Darius would have already killed you by the time it matters. Shyvana doesn't build enough AD or pen to make it worth buying over another special-effect item, if she's going for damage. Nocturne already builds crit (at least, he did until Lethality made its debut). Kled is the only one that might actually appreciate the choice, and even then it's boiling down to a big issue:

Relying on autos as a melee character. Most bruisers can deal lots of damage quickly through abilities before relying on autos, and crit does not help that at all. Even Infinity edge isn't appealing for them, since there are better items that give defense in combination with AD, such as Maw and Steraks (although the latter kinda sucks due to nerfs) so that they do not have to invest an entire item towards offense.

In fact, this change would ONLY hurt crit users that rely on low crit amounts, like the GP build you mentioned, because instead of being good at a low chance, it's just always mediocre. Characters that actually rely on constant auto attacks for damage, such as tryndamere and most traditional crit carries, will benefit massively from a gameplay and health standard.

Ahristocats2 votes

Except that unless you stack a lot of crit you won't abuse it as a bruiser, crit should not be an AD AMP, it should be an AA AMP so unless you AA a lot as a bruiser you WONT buy crit

stop spreading bullshit, 20% more damage on your AA won't make you suddenly instakill a squishy as darius, even if you have 500 AD that's only 100 more damage on an AA

Backup4now1 votes

I'm not sure why you're arguing against me. The entire post I made was agreeing with what you just said; Darius wouldn't buy crit because it's an AA mod that wouldn't matter by the time he would have killed you with a normal bruiser/tank item. The damage amp on autos doesn't add up enough, which is why he doesn't buy crit now.

MuffledGarbage6 votes

Riot. I know I've said this in the past but please...

Give this man a job

AND GIVE HIM A RAISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mira Arya Enthe14 votes

Riot wouldn't want me, I leave stuff in the lunchroom fridge for weeks and spend way too long on bathroom breaks.

Legacy Hydralpha10 votes

spend way too long on bathroom breaks.

What's the difference between bathroom breaks and working on the game anyways? Both end up making shit.

50000000000000008 votes

Bathroom breaks don't always end up making shit.

SEKAI3 votes

{quoted}

Bathroom breaks don't always end up making shit.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/753/998/5d8.gif

Ding ding ding ding ding!!!!!

Sraeg20131 votes

Well... long bathroom breaks sure do.

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

Riot. I know I've said this in the past but please...

Give this man a job

AND GIVE HIM A RAISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Except the problem with just making them damage amps is as follows. You build item 3031. You now get 20% bonus damage + 50% bonus damage. Now imagine that with a full lethality build.

The real solution is making crits a charge up system, but no everyone so addicted to just recycling Ashe passive.

ChaosThief4 votes

Personally I just want crit damage to be lowered a bit. It forces an entire class to rely on it.

morris15 votes

Then what will they build? Lethality? Oh.

ChaosThief1 votes

One step at a time my friend... one step at a time.

MunchCrunchLunch4 votes

that would be great right. however at that point it has to be reduced. from a maximum of say 200% damage. to like. 175% because damage amp is just more consistent than crit

Papa Andrei2 votes

I remember seeing a post like this before bout a month ago... It crops up like bi monthly..

Irelia Bot1 votes

If it only applies to attack damage on auto attacks it will not break the game.

Leaf on Bush2 votes

Then Ashe would no longer be unique and its boring, i like big numbers.

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

I have complained about RNG Crit for a long time in this game. However, your post doesn't address one of the biggest excuses Riot has for keeping crit RNG dependent.

Upsets

They posted something on this a season or two ago, so forgive me for not quoting. But the basically, Crit chance means that an ADC that is behind still has the potential to out-trade an ADC that is ahead. Ensuring that right-clicker fights aren't 100% decided by stat-checking.

RainXBlade2 votes

If you change RNG in crit with Damage Amp from it, then imagine Yasuo's passive but his Double Crit Chance scaling much harder with his damage. That's something I'd rather not imagine and this is coming from a Yasuo main.

404 Terror1 votes

On that train of thought, why not allow it for mages, too (or, rather, every champion/role)? Unless you're talking strictly about auto-attacks; in which case, I'll see my way out of this convo...

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

This would specifically be a replacement for critical strike to make it less frustrating for both the player and their enemy. For mages amplifiers come in the form of items that add scaling to their kit or amplify their total AP value. These would be items like Abyssal, Deathcap, Gunblade/GLP/Protobelt, Ludens and so forth. The problem mages have right now is that AP scaling and AP items are shit to compensate how high their base damage is. This is why some mages have resorted to playing support as their items have hardly any value for them but their base damage is high. As a former Malzahar and Brand player I would prefer for mage itemization and scalings to be buffed in exchange for soft nerfs to early game base damage and hard nerfs to late game base damage. So mages can return to being scaling carries for mid to late game rather than alternative supports.

404 Terror1 votes

Oh, okay. Well, I'm on board. That definitely would help for more consistent damage output for AD carries, instead of relying on the chance to land a critical strike (especially for those who only build a single item with crit).

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

It would also be less frustrating to feel like Draven just got lucky and got that one single crit with his 10% early game crit chance and because of luck you died :^)

Seraphize1 votes

I do like this idea. But think of all the champs that would need whole abilities reworked if this were to happen. This wouldn't be a one patch slip it in kinda thing. This would almost need to be a MYMU/Assassin update (though not quite as big) ordeal.

Irelia Bot1 votes

Champs who have something directly related to crit chance or crit damage in their kits:Pantheon Tryndamere Yasuo

Tell me if I am missing someone.

It is not going to be that drastic of a rework with the game in it's current state.

50000000000000002 votes

Gangplank is a big one. Garen MasterYi Rengar Shaco XinZhao, then pretty much all the marksmen.

Irelia Bot1 votes

They are all fundamentally minor changes regardless.

The only one that would have been challenging would have been Draven's old passive due to the extra damage begin dependent on criting.

Ashe's passive could be modified to have a slightly stronger slow with higher damage amp

Sahn Uzal1 votes

Gangplank

Irelia Bot1 votes

That would not be effected any differently. The damage that can currently crit on Parrrley would be increased by damage amp.

Lord Malpercio1 votes

D-Do you really want Kayle to become a thing again? Because Kayle will become a thing again with 'Damage Amp'.

JustMonika131 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Malpercio,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1kUvhFIH,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-03-11T05:11:45.037+0000)

D-Do you really want Kayle to become a thing again? Because Kayle will become a thing again with 'Damage Amp'.

Kayle + Morg twin reworks soon(tm)

inb4 reworked Kayle still breaks this Damage amp idea

Irelia Bot1 votes

Every time I say make all crit damage effectively like Ashe's passive where it is a flat % damage increase that can be farther increased by a stat that replaces crit damage people seem to think it is a bad idea.

But this would clearly mark Infinity edge as a much more reliable power spike.

Yasuo would get this "damage amp" increase by 80% and tryna's passive increases his auto attack damage up to 35%.

Panth's 15% or lower passive will still do double damage and perhaps be effected by the replacement of Crit damage.

And it wouldn't even apply to on hit abilities like Ezreal or Irelia Q which currently can not crit.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/live-gameplay/hbEj1jWi-can-we-finally-phase-crits-rngesus-out-of-the-game

that had been 3years ago

but no, Riot apparently never will do the right thing, especially not if it´s an idea of the Community and they could grab it with zero investment.

Tattersall1 votes

I've always kind of thought that Fallout 4 did it in a cool way. We could make it so that crit is a stacking system. You start at one stack and every time you auto you gain one stack per crit chance, and at 100 stacks your next basic attack crits. Or you could start at zero stacks and gain stacks on-attack instead of on-hit, but that would be weird to code, right?

The difficult thin is making your auto crit on the 100th attack and not the 101st attack (1% crit chance).

TheLazyOne1 votes

This idea might have been posted before, if not here then in threads of the past, but I would try making crit a bonus damage to attacks, with the frequency affected by your crit chance. So at 0 crit you wouldn't get the bonus. At 10 you'd get the bonus at every 10th attack. At 50 you'd get the bonus every 3 attacks. At 70 every 2 attacks.

This would likely require changing the crit "chance" on items to make the math easier. But in the end it would remove the RNG but still retain crit as a factor in marksmen's damage output.

TheSandQrator1 votes

There are two reasons crit chance feels... Egh. There's actually a considerable amount of items (roughly 10) that give it as a stat. Only one class of champions can really use this stat at all reasonably (with a few outliers), and that's Marksmen. Most every other stat can be used reasonably by at least two other classes of champion. Defensive stats are mainly used on tanks and bruisers. Raw attack damage is used well by assassins, bruisers and marksmen. Ability power is loved by a bunch of mages, and some supports, or "enchanters". And pretty much everybody loves CDR. Resistance penetration is really a multiplier to your damage, but Marksmen are unique in that they have resistance penetration, as well as a whole other stat to multiply their damage. Crit chance.

Because it essentially acts as a multiplier to their overall damage, which gets a little more efficient the more raw damage you have, it's almost able to be formulaic.

There are a couple ways I really liked how others handled it, but they aren't really applicable to League.

DotA 2 has three items that critical chance. Six people have it as part of their kit. As passives. But, stacking critical hit has diminishing returns, since they're all independent modifiers, with different chances that provide different multipliers. It's not really good to buy more than one. Or any, if you have it innately.

In Dawngate (RIP), you actually couldn't purchase crit chance directly. There was also no such thing as ability power and attack damage. There were two unified stats instead: Power and Mastery. One point of Power increased a right-clickers' auto attack damage more than it would a mage's. But overall mages had higher Power scaling on their abilities. One point of Mastery both increased critical strike chance by 1%, but also increased your ability damage by 0.5%. It was a stat that multiple classes could use. Dawngate had an incredible stat system and I loved it. There was no such thing as dead items on people (a la AP Riven), instead, certain things just didn't work as well, but they still worked. In League, well, certain things are just stupid but you go for it, AP-Tear Zed. Don't let anyone dull your sparkle. Just don't expect to be in good terms with your team.

League has Randuin's Omen and Ninja Tabi, to keep crit right-clickers somewhat in check. They hurt, but there are ways to hurt their damage output. It's not perfect but at least it's something.

If it changed to your suggested Damage Amp, at least we wouldn't have right-clickers fishing for a lucky crit to put them at an advantage before even considering committing! :V

LordGeovanni1 votes

you add reliability you ultimately have to drop off damage the damage out put cant be the same not to mention rng crit is hardly rng when the crit chance basicly ramps up every time you dont get a crit.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Yep

Sraeg20131 votes

Except... how is it any different from simply getting more AD?

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

It gives no scalings, it is an amplifier and thus functions off of existing AD, this means it is still functionally like crit, which just amplifies the value of your AD, but instead of being random it does it on every hit just to a smaller amount. So, Ashe's passive.

Ruin Lance1 votes

do this and Yasuo is suddenly 2 times more broken than people claim him to be.

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