What if Crit was removed as a stat but ADC items just increased your BONUS ad?

Malicious Metal·Oct 14, 2017·42 votes·2,371 views

Retuning a lot of their items to DPS and tank-busting needs without having to rely on the current RNG aspect of critical strikes.

71 Comments

Warlord ScrapOct 14, 201720 votes

Its not rng when you have 100% crit

Malicious MetalOct 14, 201716 votes

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/022/138/reece.JPG

Tails9016Oct 15, 20171 votes

But that's the only way to play AD marksmen

~~This is why I don't play carry positions in ranked~~

Warlord ScrapOct 15, 20172 votes

tbh i dont even play adc i just wanted people to think im funny

ArkenStormOct 15, 20171 votes

Tryndamere agrees with you.

AFilthyCaitMainOct 14, 201719 votes

This would be awesome in theory. But then youd have AD Assassins and such abusing the hell out of it.

Velzard of KozOct 14, 20174 votes

And it is questionable If it would solve something even for ADCs. Jhin has the mechanic of increased AD and while he has it for total AD and gets it from lvl and AS just as well as crit, he still can reach rather scary amounts of AD. It would reduce the burst but ADC would still burst lategame with it.

In other words, Jhin should be able to reach 600 AD with 4 items, it's not hard to imagine that in order for the items to be wroth buying, you'd reach 300 physical damage per attack. It might create the line of killing fast enough for ADC to be viable while not too much, but people would still complain.

LordGeovanniOct 15, 20172 votes

Crit and massive ad in every other game is an assassins stat. and for good reason

HaIlMonitorOct 15, 20171 votes

Wow, someone other then ADC's abusing items like they do for Fighter and Assassin items sense forever????

Spank the FoxOct 15, 20171 votes

Because Riot overtunes them or your name is Ezreal.

HaIlMonitorOct 15, 20171 votes

Ezreal is basically the new Lee sin lol. So even him could be considered over turned.

abca98Oct 15, 20171 votes

You simply don't let assasins buy them and balance according to that.

AlteredOct 14, 201711 votes

First off, champs that rely on crit for their kit ( Ashe , Jhin , Tryndamere , Yasuo from the top off my head) would need a major rework, to counterweigh these changes, which would be a pain in the ass for Riot.

item 3143 would need some changes too.

It would indeed counteract the RNG, but on the other hand it would give ADC's a lot of power, because their damage is more consistent. Because they arent bound by crit, they can just build an extreme amount of damage, 1 AS item, 1 antitank item (either LW or BOTRK, prob botrk because it also gives the attack speed) and berserker grieves, take the new AS rune (lethal tempo?) and just have an insane consistent amount of damage. It would make the marksmen with enchanter meta a must, because if you can keep your adc alive late, you will always win fights.

AD assassins, not needing any of this attack speed, would build a metric fuckton of AD (and a duskblade for good measure) and would blow up squishies even harder.

All in all, it's a good idea to take rng out of the game, but I don't think crit will be going anywhere soon. It's just a lot of work to just replace one of the base stats the game has worked with for so long.

ninjaroxasOct 15, 20171 votes

I mean Ashe,Jhin,and tryn would only need some small changes. Maybe with jhin on the higher end.

PennsOct 14, 20173 votes

what if crit was removed

take my upvote hehe

If prefer something with armor pen tho, why can adcs assassinate you with 2-3 aas?

RebonackOct 15, 20173 votes

{quoted}

take my upvote hehe

If prefer something with armor pen tho, why can adcs assassinate you with 2-3 aas?

I'm still in favor of Crits ignoring a (large) percentage of the target's resistance rather than dealing any actual bonus damage.

MogarlOct 15, 20171 votes

I think this is the right direction. Marksman are disintegrating casters right now, but just reducing their crit damage would leave us all fucked by tanks.

This kind of change would leave item 3035 in a weird spot though since it would basically be identical to item 3031 .

RebonackOct 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I think this is the right direction. Marksman are disintegrating casters right now, but just reducing their crit damage would leave us all fucked by tanks.

This kind of change would leave in a weird spot though since it would basically be identical to .

That's why you remove Whisper from the game. The various anti-tank options would then combine with crit components as well as other AD components so Assassins and Divers aren't completely without answer to Tanks.

LordGeovanniOct 15, 20173 votes

you mean the rng of the 20% chance that i wont crit

Teridax68Oct 15, 20173 votes

I would be interested in removing crit, but bonus AD I don't think is the stat to buff for marksmen. Part of the problem behind this is that assassins tend to make even better use of bonus AD, so they might end up cannibalizing raw AD items if they're good enough, and the other problem is that when marksmen autoattacks are individually heavy-hitting, they tend to both be and feel more bursty. I think buffing attack speed instead could be a way of giving marksman premium DPS without having those items be too great on other classes, since marksmen tend to make by far the best use of AS, and without making them deal massive damage right from the first attack.

As for tank-busting, I feel there are two ways this could be approached: the more short-term solution could be to simply give marksmen better access to bonus armor pen, e.g. by making bonus armor pen a stat available on multiple items much like Lethality. This could allow them to deal more damage to tanks without having to make them deal much more damage to squishies on the side. I personally kind of dislike this solution, because it simply relies on an arms race, and works by devaluing tanks and their items. The more long-term solution could be to phase out anti-tank mechanics like percentage health damage, armor pen/reduction, true damage, etc., and accompany this with nerfs to tanky itemization, mainly armor here: ultimately, marksmen and fighters should be good against tanks because DPS beats static health pools, not because they get access to target-agnostic damage in order to burst tanks down (which is sometimes the case right now).

StoryDuckOct 14, 20172 votes

This would also have the delightful effect of stopping on hit crits which is a big part of the reason why ADCs are so brokenly overpowered at this time.

Hayaishi2Oct 14, 20172 votes

Then Assassins build ADC items.

PoskeOct 14, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1h8ywAQd,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-10-14T19:58:50.679+0000)

Retuning a lot of their items to DPS and tank-busting needs without having to rely on the current RNG aspect of critical strikes.

%dmg increase is kinda dull so riot never decided to went with it

There are way better suggestions

I had many multiple times

Like every Third/ Fourth/ second auto crits- depending on items/combination of items (but critdmg would be reduced to compensate the fact that it can be controlled)

If you had certain items you could start fights with a crit etc.. c,a,a,c,a,a,c,a,a formula while some items would have a,c,a,a,c,a,a,c,a,a formula some would have a,a,c,a,a,c,a,a,c,a,a,c And IE + combinations of those would change it to a,c,a,c,a,c,a / c,a,c,a,c,c,a

Crit dmg reduced to 175% with ie at 200%

Daddy AntsOct 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Crit dmg reduced to 175% with ie at 200%

Then IE would need a huge price reduction.

3400g for +25% crit damage = no one would ever build it.

PoskeOct 14, 20171 votes

its to cheap anyway

and you would be able to control crits essentially and since knowledge is power it needs to be weaker

Chembaron YamadaOct 15, 20171 votes

On the other hand, right now a marksman is able to crit with every hit if he has 100% crit chance. Meanwhile with the new system, you won't crit every attack. Which means that you should buff these items for the late game.

And Jhin would kinda be in a weird spot in my opinion.

PhDs NutsOct 14, 20171 votes

Zed and Talon would abuse the shit out of this.

LongHair FoxOct 15, 20171 votes

Anything that removes crit needs to reintroduce some kind of new thing that keeps adc from becoming stat check lanes. This can either be done by mini reworks to all roles or more likely by giving a new stat you potentially use poorly. Even just having extra effects instead of damage from crits could be a thing.

Champion SkinOct 15, 20171 votes

Anything that removes crit needs to reintroduce some kind of new thing that keeps adc from becoming stat check lanes.

Not all ADC's currently build crit you know like Kog'maw (on-hit) or MF (lethality) so not like it is entirely necessary

And instead of having it on a stat why not put into their kits like making ADC steroids less reliable by giving them requirements like Ashe Q

LongHair FoxOct 15, 20171 votes

Mf has one of the better kits considering her q has counterplay and can be optimized very heavily along with a good reward for getting it right. Kog is probably one of the most stat checky adc's which is decent since he does not have a great lane but in all I do think kog needs a small scale rework.

We could ofcourse just give small scale reworks to all adc but that would require a pre season worth of changes, which is a lot of work.

bleufromageOct 15, 20171 votes

I think they need to make crit chance a stat that is exclusively tied to a key stone rune. Give x crit chance per level. This means someone has to make an actual tradeoff to use the absurd dmg you get from crit. Remove crit chance from items and add either armor pen or other unique passive. Add more crit dmg modifier items other than IE. This makes crit a meaningful choice rather than a stupid stat that is always good on any ad based carry.

KaìjuOct 15, 20171 votes

You would find that ADCs only go that rune though which Riot doesn't want since that removes all options in rune path. Not saying you don't raise a point, just that Riots ideals would never allow it.

FishlordOct 15, 20171 votes

No way. Assassins like Zed having 800 ad and one shotting everyone is not gonna happen.

Linna ExcelOct 15, 20171 votes

So basically you want all ADCs to work like Ashe?

The TrentOct 15, 20171 votes

I think the better solution here is making all adcs have a crit mechanics like Ashe.

TeCoolMageOct 15, 20171 votes

Crit exists for RNG. It's because ADCs are point and click, without it there's no risk for the higher number player. E.g. player 1 can die in one auto and has 50% crit, while player 2 can die in two autos, player 1 has larger range and therefore gets to attack first. There is a 50-50 split between these two situations:

P1 attacks, crits, P2 dies P1 attacks, P2 attacks, P1 dies

This is an extremely simplified situation but if you really wanted you can get similar results by running some maths through Desmos or wolfram or something.

Now let's say crit just gave some straight up damage. Now one of them wins in all situations. One player just engages on the other constantly and bot lane is now even More snowbally than it already is. (Before anyone brings up supports: think of it this way, a single CS lead can snowball bot lane with a level two powerspike. You can't rely on being the better support, or having a better support all the time).

This isn't a problem for others because mages can dodge skillshots, assassins have their burst delayed, etc.

I don't like crit but they have to fix ADCs to have variation based on skill as opposed to pure RNG. But no variation is worse than both.

PrinceOfStormsOct 15, 20171 votes

Crit is a problem yes, but what's arguably a bigger problem is attack speed. Because there's just so much of it, especially on items that ADCs like to buy (because they have crit), it makes it so that ADCs that aren't named Jhin don't have actual periods of weakness like every other champion type in the game. Mages have periods where their spells are on CD and thus can't trade very well. ADCs obviously don't have periods of time where their AAs are on CD and are thus incapable of trading very well.

If Crit is here to stay, players should have to choose between crit and attack speed. Building crit should reduce your bonus AS and building AS should reduce your crit.

Chembaron YamadaOct 15, 20171 votes

They would have to completely rework ADC itemization, since they have to seperate AS and crit for items then. That would mean the introduction of alot of new items.

Champion SkinOct 15, 20171 votes

Well crit and AS isn't so bad.... the problem is when both are stacked

AD X AS = Max 250% AD as DPS AD X Crit = Max 250% AD as DPS (champions usually don't have over 1.0 attack speed without buy AS) AD X AS X Crit = Max 625% AD as DPS

DengedenOct 15, 20171 votes

They tried that. They gave us Fervor. They gave us lethality. They reworked Triforce. They reworked Cleaver. They buffed BorK. They will give us press the attack. Can you guess what you did? It starts with c and ends omplain.

RavenMagusOct 15, 20171 votes

You know what, that's a good idea.

But to avoid stacking issues, let's make it so that Infinity Edge is the only source of this new bonus.

And make it cost more gold too. But leave the build path the same, just make the pieces have an insanely high combine cost.

Chembaron YamadaOct 15, 20171 votes

Just Infinity Edge having this effect is against the purpose. OP wants to replace the crit stat in the game, what are you going to do with all the other crit items if just Infinity Edge has this effect?

RavenMagusOct 15, 20171 votes

I'm actually not being serious. That suggestion is really awful.

But it's what AP has to deal with, because I just described Rabadon's Deathcap.

Mister SupportOct 15, 20171 votes

Maybe not flat out increasing bonus AD, but increasing damage dealt from auto attacks by a percentage. Or even having auto attacks only ignoring % bonus armor.

FaustavianOct 15, 20171 votes

Jhin Yeah, what this guy said. ^

McsquzzyOct 15, 20171 votes

Because Yasuo would have an identity crisis

NymzoOct 15, 20171 votes

Here's the problem tho: we currently have 3 champions that interact with crit in their passif Tryndamere Yasuo Jhin

If we remove crit, we would have to change a few things for them which is not an issue for Jhin I imagine and Tryn needs a rework but... considaring the rework and balance team already have theit hands full... working on Yasuo and Jhin is some extra work that will delay future VGU.

RouwhorstOct 15, 20171 votes

Increasing bonus ad by a percentage seems a dull concept to me It could be suited for an item passive like rabadons, but not a generic stat. Altough I am a big advocate of removing the RNG part and the crit system receiving chances, I think this is not the way to go.