Lucian: the Ryze of ADCs

Dunderflump·Oct 21, 2014·4 votes·539 views

No clear weaknesses.

Lane bully.

Scales hard into lategame.

Very low skill required; mash all buttons to victory.

Can't push against him; R is instant waveclear.

Can't dodge either of their Qs.

12 Comments

JustMyBassCannonOct 21, 20144 votes

No clear weaknesses.

Lacks innate CC, relies heavily on mid-length cooldown spells to deal damage, short range, limited mobility when not in constant combat, mediocre scalars

Lane bully.

And what do you do against a lane bully? You let them push the lane and get too aggressive, call for ganks, win the lane. If you didn't get a ward sweeper, not my fault.

Scales hard into lategame.

Not as hard as some marksmen. He's about middle ground.

Very low skill required; mash all buttons to victory.

Because changing spell rotations is sooo much easier than right click, win game.

He's actually one of the most complex marksmen.

Can't push against him; R is instant waveclear.

He spent his ultimate pushing the lane and you didn't try, I dunno, CCing him to cancel the channel?

Can't dodge either of their Qs.

Actually, Lucian's is dodge-able if you use a dash properly. They specifically programmed it to be difficult, but not impossible, like Blue Shells.

Knight SoIaire Oct 21, 20142 votes

-varus has innate cc he is the most picked adc in lcs .... oh wait adcs are supposed to deal damage and they are picked for damagge only

-i wouldnt call lucian a lane bully because he is quite good at teamfights, he is just op in this way cause he has no weak phase of the game

-oh he scales hard he has double crit and burst dmg capable of dropping many foes fast with mobility to kite them on top of it

-skill is indeed required but lucian sometimes can be dominant to the point where it doesnt matter how he plays because nobody can survive him even when he makes mistakes

-with the valeclear i have no opinion , luciian does it to showe lane away from tower so ccing him means a towerdive and feeding the lucian, unless support is a caster but then lucian can burts him quite hard if he thinks hard

-about q dodging itd weird case, q i dodgeable but tweaked in a way that makes it dodgeable only for wayne anf graves(ez channels too long) so i would call it more of an undodgeable skill

basicaly all of lucians weaknesses are just theoretical because he always has something that works

JustMyBassCannonOct 21, 20141 votes

-varus has innate cc he is the most picked adc in lcs .... oh wait adcs are supposed to deal damage and they are picked for damagge only

I didn't compare him to Varus, I pointed out that Lucian has no innate CC, not even a slow. That's a weakness; it means his self-peel is entirely based on his one dash.

-i wouldnt call lucian a lane bully because he is quite good at teamfights, he is just op in this way cause he has no weak phase of the game

He is a lane bully. His laning phase does well enough that he can afford to be aggressive, even if his support is not a hard-engage type. And if his support does have a hard engage, then they go for a level 2 KO with their burst combos. Some marksmen are capable of following up with a hard-engage support, but Lucian is built to do it.

-oh he scales hard he has double crit and burst dmg capable of dropping many foes fast with mobility to kite them on top of it

Fun fact: Lucian's passive deals 150% of his AD. 100% on the main shot, 50% on the second. So a crit would be worth 300%, or 375% with IE. Yes, he can get a couple rapid crits. It's not quite as powerful as you think until the very end-game, and other marksmen still scale harder.

-skill is indeed required but lucian sometimes can be dominant to the point where it doesnt matter how he plays because nobody can survive him even when he makes mistakes

If he has gotten a lead to the point where mistakes don't matter, someone screwed up very hard in the laning phase, and it's a very high chance that it was the laning opponent.

-with the waveclear i have no opinion , lucian does it to shove lane away from tower so ccing him means a towerdive and feeding the lucian, unless support is a caster but then lucian can burst him quite hard if he thinks hard

If you CC him and run away from the tower, at worst you take maybe one hit. Unless your only form of hard CC is melee range, it's not hard. Hell, have you seen what happens when he tries to ult near Soraka?

-about q dodging it's weird case, q is dodgeable but tweaked in a way that makes it dodgeable only for vayne and graves (ez channels too long) so i would call it more of an undodgeable skill

I was just pointing out that they were wrong, and it is avoidable. It's not easy, but then again, neither are Blue Shells.

basically all of lucians weaknesses are just theoretical because he always has something that works

And basically all of Lucian's strengths are theoretical, because there's a way to outplay them.

Knight SoIaire Oct 21, 20141 votes

i just pointed out that adcs are not the masters of cc, they are damage focused and its the main thing they compete (those who lose some dmg because they do have cc or good utility are usualy just cast off because adc is needed to do the dmg) lucian has youmu and his w steroids to help him run awaay along with his e which is just the same thing as a slow (he speeds himself up instead of slowinng others) just from the other side

2)now we dont understand eachother for me a lane bully is a guy who 100% rocks the lane phase but is weak in teamfights, lucian is indeed realy strogn laner but he doesnt lack anything in teamfights (draven is a lane bully, he wins the lane but if he wont get fed ennough he won be able to teamfight propertly, lucian can farm and just transition into the other phases of the game smoothly) sso he is not the lane bully category, he is just dominant

3)but his crit chance is calculated twice meaning that he gets much more dmg early when his crit chance is low
and you calculated incorrectly first crit without ie will deal 200% of your ad second crit without ie will deal 100% of your ad together its 300% dmg with one autoatack be aware that both shots can crit

with ie first shot deals 250% dmg with ie second shot deals something like 112,5% dmg together its 362.5 % of your ad with one autoatack (imagine it at lvl8 when lucian just bought ie, he can dish out like 500 dmg with 1 aa assuming he is lucky, and i was on the recieving end once)

it depends on how fast he snowballs or if he zones good if he is ahead he can show you away from the farm freely if he wards he can run away fast enough so in the end he can get loads of lead and just outstat you it all depends on how the game goes but lucian is not required to always be alrert like vayne for instance (vayne is 100% offense so if she engages bad she cant realy run)

5)he still has his e to dodge stuff so your theory might give mixed results in game (in one case he gets cc'ed in othe other he dodges stops the ult and punishes your supp while you have no cc to stop him and he still has his supp)

6)the word its not easy is totaly unfit here man ... riot already changed the delays on this skill so that its dodgeable by tumble or flash, nothing can just walk out of it

7)if by outplaying you mean flashing away once every 5 min every champion is made to be somehow outplayable, but riot fked the case with lucian by giving him quite reliable tools to counter his weaknesses (i just think that these tools are too reliable and allow lucian to be blindly first picked because he has no matchup that is more than medicore for him besides draven, but i dont think draven will catch him)

oh and just in case i went through some guides fast to check if im indeed right on those matchups and i was right only draven lucian and annie were marked as problem the rest of the matchups had writen that it fawours lucian next to it (solo mid) or tha they are easy or medicore (lolking) which proves the point that no type of botlane champion has a clear advantage over lucian

JustMyBassCannonOct 21, 20141 votes

No, they are not usually the ones meant to have Tank-tier CC. That does not mean that entirely lacking CC is not a weakness. He can't interrupt an assassin's burst without an ally. He can't cut off a bruiser's dive without an ally. He can't disable a mage without an ally. All he can do is deal damage, and hope he kills things before they see him and kill him. Also, no, a +40 MS speed boost is not the same thing as a slow. On top of that, the only way he can actually use that to stay out of range is if he tags someone with W and hits them with his R, because the rest of his spells put him in range of every gap closer except Udyr.
Except Marksmen, as a rule, scale into the late game. Even their lane bullies still have late-game strength. Caitlyn and Jinx are also late bully marksmen. Caitlyn is the one that follows your definition the closest, but she still scales into late game because that is the rule of Marksmen.
...you really can't be that stupid. I said 300%, you said 300%, we both said 300% for a crit without Infinity Edge. And then, with Infinity Edge, it goes to 375%. 100x2.5=250%, 50x2.5=125%, 250+125=375. Don't try to correct my math. It will end poorly 99% of the time.
That's a matter of your opinion. If a Lucian is able to play without being careful, I'm pretty sure a Vayne player could go with reckless abandon and succeed just as easily, whether it's because their opponents are incompetent or their support is a god. Also, why are you implying that Lucian's one dash and not-very-powerful MS steroid is better at escaping combat than Vayne's lower-cooldown dash, stealth and knockback?
You're assuming too many things in a theory that are not a part of said theory.
The words "It's not easy" are actually a perfect description. It's not easy, because you need to use a dash and have fast reactions. You can't just walk out of it, not like avoiding the piercing shot from Twitch's ultimate steroid; you actually have to use an ability to sidestep it. Add the fact that several Marksmen don't have free-roam dashes (and no supports, iirc), and it's considered unavoidable by those players. I was nitpicking, pointing out that Lucian's Q is avoidable. It just might not be avoidable for your marksman/support.
By "outplaying", I mean outplaying him. Read his reactions to the situation, and know whether or not you can win in a duel if you do everything properly. Learn to be fully aware of all elements in play, and know whether to fight or flee. By outplaying, I am referring to what you're supposed to do in the laning phase as anyone vs. anyone. Also, side note; I almost don't use Flash. I prefer Exhaust.

I'll take what works in practice over what a guide or LoLking tells me about statistics. A smart support and proper play will still beat Lucian pretty easily.

Plus, he is getting nerfed anyway.

NarasimhaOct 21, 20143 votes

No clear weaknesses.

Lane bully.

Scales hard into lategame.

Very low skill required; mash all buttons to victory.

Can't push against him; R is instant waveclear.

Can't dodge either of their Qs.

No specific strengths either.

Does not scale as well as any hyper carry.

There will always be low skill champions.

If he uses R to waveclear, just engage on him then.

You seriously can't dodge his Q if he uses it on a minion? I've got nothing then.

DunderflumpOct 21, 20142 votes

No clear weaknesses.

Lane bully.

Scales hard into lategame.

Very low skill required; mash all buttons to victory.

Can't push against him; R is instant waveclear.

Can't dodge either of their Qs.

No specific strengths either.

Does not scale as well as any hyper carry.

There will always be low skill champions.

If he uses R to waveclear, just engage on him then.

You seriously can't dodge his Q if he uses it on a minion? I've got nothing then.

The absence of weaknesses is itself a strength.

Doesn't matter; hypercarries can't hypercarry when they're bullied away from farm and killed.

Neither champ needs their R to fight.

If Lucian misses his Q it's because he didn't aim it. It's instant; it can't be dodged.

NarasimhaOct 21, 20142 votes

A jack of all trades has the strength of being able to do a bit of everything. His weakness is that he can only do a bit of everything.

You can't stop them from farming forever. If you're denying that much farm, you're pushing the lane. If you're pushing the lane, you're either going to get ganked, or take the tower early which lets them farm safely.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'either champion'.

Lucian's Q states, in the ability, it has a .35 sec delay. That is not instant.

TeemoHunter1337Oct 21, 20143 votes

No clear weaknesses.

Lane bully.

Scales hard into lategame.

Very low skill required; mash all buttons to victory.

Can't push against him; R is instant waveclear.

Can't dodge either of their Qs.

No specific strengths either.

Does not scale as well as any hyper carry.

There will always be low skill champions.

If he uses R to waveclear, just engage on him then.

You seriously can't dodge his Q if he uses it on a minion? I've got nothing then.

"if he uses R to wave clear, just engage on him then."

lol wtf.

you do realize lucian doesnt need his ult to duel or team fight.

his Q hits more than his ult.

HayaishiOct 21, 20142 votes

No clear weaknesses.

Lane bully.

Scales hard into lategame.

Very low skill required; mash all buttons to victory.

Can't push against him; R is instant waveclear.

Can't dodge either of their Qs.

No specific strengths either.

Does not scale as well as any hyper carry.

There will always be low skill champions.

If he uses R to waveclear, just engage on him then.

You seriously can't dodge his Q if he uses it on a minion? I've got nothing then.

You don't need to scale as a hyper carry to carry as ADC, every good ADC player knows this.

No specific strengths? He does it all, that's his strength he has everything, except for CC.

NarasimhaOct 21, 20142 votes

You don't need to, but being a hypercarry certainly makes it easier.

And thats EXACTLY what I mean by no specific strengths. He has a lot of general strengths. But Lucian will never be #1 in any category.

ZenithEeveeOct 21, 20141 votes

Easilly is countered by anyone with Hard CC

Cant face Garen in YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRS

Amumu counters him easily

Any tank smart enough to build armor, health, and Thornmail pretty much kills him

so.....