@Riot Taric's situation and buffs.

Skias·Jan 10, 2017·4 votes·613 views

For the greater part of last season, I considered Taric in a great spot, even after his nerfs post launch. His ability to fight back was pretty good and against other supports, I feel he does well.

With the changes to bot, constant 5 man dives at 3-4m, AP carry supports running full on ap builds, he just can't keep up most times. His mana consumption is so insanely high for the very very little he does bot. Now that you basically get relegated for not rushing sightstone/redemption, his mana problems are even worse.

Can we PLEASE get some changes to Taric's early mana management? Give him a mana return on bastion, lower Q costs or a bump to his base mana/mana regen. (Not all of these, just one).

He's in great shape for the most part, but he needs to be able to use his Q more than twice without losing access to his entire kit early on.

59 Comments

Maximum MordeJan 10, 20172 votes

I hate almost everything about new taric other than the visual update tbh. His new kit feels like shit on a stick to me.

SkiasJan 10, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1XtK3Pc3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-01-10T16:34:37.855+0000)

I hate almost everything about new taric other than the visual update tbh. His new kit feels like shit on a stick to me.

I love his gameplay.

Maximum MordeJan 10, 20172 votes

Why though? His gameplay is basically sit there and take up space while waiting to ult because you can't fight anyone and come out ahead unless they are potato :(

TyrekGoldenspearJan 10, 20172 votes

Then you have simply not played him correctly my friend.

I can easily duel the enemy adc or their support solo.

Heck there have been times where my adc was killed, and my enemy laners both survived but were low, and I killed them both myself.

I've even outdueled a Rengar who decided to walk up to me and fight me lol.

Maximum MordeJan 10, 20171 votes

I can believe the Rengar early game, he's forced into melee. Late game he will still dunk you cause your damage isn't even high enough to outdo his sustain. The others are potato examples though. Taric has no means of actually staying on someone unless they fuck up badly.

SkiasJan 10, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1XtK3Pc3,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-10T16:45:09.687+0000)

I can believe the Rengar early game, he's forced into melee. Late game he will still dunk you cause your damage isn't even high enough to outdo lifesteal. The others are potato examples though. Taric has no means of actually staying on someone unless they fuck up badly.

Iceborn gauntlet procs... like constantly and is huge AoE because he has 300 armor? Randuin's omen slow. Ascension Coin speed boost? You really struggle to stay on someone as Taric if you play him the way you describe. He's not Soraka dude.

TyrekGoldenspearJan 10, 20172 votes

Well you said pretty much all I wanted to.

Thanks. I usually use Frozen Heart unless I need to play more of a duelist role, then I grab gauntlet and make it impossible to escape me or my team.

SkiasJan 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Well you said pretty much all I wanted to.

Thanks. I usually use Frozen Heart unless I need to play more of a duelist role, then I grab gauntlet and make it impossible to escape me or my team.

Speed boosts are great on him, too. Righteous or Ascension into enemy, E and Omen proc.

SkiasJan 10, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1XtK3Pc3,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-10T16:38:01.739+0000)

Why though? His gameplay is basically sit there and take up space while waiting to ult because you can't fight anyone and come out ahead unless they are potato :(

That is absolutely not how you play him. His gameplay is centered around proccing Bravado and pumping out shields/heals every 2 seconds.

Maximum MordeJan 10, 20171 votes

Bravado sucks against people who aren't potatos. And if you try to pump out shields/heals in lane you are going to go oom and be even more useless.

SkiasJan 10, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1XtK3Pc3,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2017-01-10T16:54:20.784+0000)

Bravado sucks against people who aren't potatos. And if you try to pump out shields/heals in lane you are going to go oom and be even more useless.

What? So you've mastered not getting auto attacked as a Morde main? You're the easiest one to hit lol

Maximum MordeJan 10, 20171 votes

I'm actually a Morgana/Karma main ever since season 5, but even so, in Morde's case he wouldn't give a fuck even if Taric did hit him. New Taric doesn't even have enough damage to break through Morde's passive.

SkiasJan 10, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1XtK3Pc3,comment-id=0000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-10T17:00:51.504+0000)

I'm actually a Morgana/Karma main ever since season 5, but even so, in Morde's case he wouldn't give a fuck even if Taric did hit him. New Taric doesn't even have enough damage to break through Morde's passive.

You clearly don't play Taric then. I've absolutely torn Mordes apart with Taric. He's actually one of those picks I like to see the most.

OleandervineJan 10, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1XtK3Pc3,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-10T16:38:01.739+0000)

Why though? His gameplay is basically sit there and take up space while waiting to ult because you can't fight anyone and come out ahead unless they are potato :(

You clearly don't play Taric. Dazzle is the cream of his crop, and it makes him dangerous to try and confront if you can't quickly get away from him.

SkiasJan 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You clearly don't play Taric. Dazzle is the cream of his crop, and it makes him dangerous to try and confront if you can't quickly get away from him.

If he bastions you and stuns you again and again, he can be really hard to escape.

TyrekGoldenspearJan 10, 20172 votes

This.

The basics of dueling with Taric.

Then W or Q.

Then do the other thing.

Oh look, the first thing is up again. Do it.

Oh look, E is up again, stun.

Oh look, Q is up again, heal.

Oh look, W is up now. Shield.

Theoretically you can do this forever if he had no mana, which makes his early game costs somewhat justifiable.

SkiasJan 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

This.

The basics of dueling with Taric.

E.

Then W or Q.

Then do the other thing.

Oh look, the first thing is up again. Do it.

Oh look, E is up again, stun.

Oh look, Q is up again, heal.

Oh look, W is up now. Shield.

Theoretically you can do this forever if he had no mana, which makes his early game costs somewhat justifiable.

Yeah, I get where you are coming from. His mana pool can barely get through all three spells early on, though. He should be gated by mana, just a little too tight pre-5 right now.

Big LincolnJan 10, 20172 votes

Taric has probably the worst laning of any traditional support

SkiasJan 10, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1XtK3Pc3,comment-id=00000000000000020001,timestamp=2017-01-10T16:48:09.289+0000)

Taric has probably the worst laning of any traditional support

His lane is actually pretty awesome, its his pre-5 mana costs holding him back when so much is decided before level 5. Hell, most traditional supports can't hang in there right now because of the early pressure. Imaqtpie and Scarra were just talking about how you need tons of early power to mitigate the 5 man circus down bot. Asking for more mana for a 3rd heal isn't a lot to ask.

Big LincolnJan 10, 20172 votes

its the fact his sustain is shit for how much mana he sucks up at all ranks and being melee with no poke and bad engage. he's good at counter engage and that's really about it pre-6

he's a late game powerhouse in a role that demands a decent early

khorneyJan 10, 20172 votes

he is a melee version of soraka. the way i build him and mastery makes him better. use windskeeper blessing.

SkiasJan 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

he is a melee version of soraka. the way i build him and mastery makes him better. use windskeeper blessing.

I guess we just have different playstyles. I play him as a fighter/support. High tankiness, Frontliner and mad peel. I guess it's cool that we can both play him completely differently and see success. I mean, I'm still climbing with Taric, I've beaten the adc/mage combo. Its the 5 man dives that suck. But then, thats a bigger problem than Taric. Maybe the upcoming changes will help. I'd definitely like to support more lucians etc, if he sucked less.

khorneyJan 10, 20172 votes

its not about different playstyles its the fact windskeepers more effcieient on him then the other masteries. Simply due to the fact that he heals and shield so why wouldnt you take it?

SkiasJan 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

its not about different playstyles its the fact windskeepers more effcieient on him then the other masteries. Simply due to the fact that he heals and shield so why wouldnt you take it?

% is coming from insanely low base numbers, the return isn't super high. He scales harder with armor. CotC or Fervor tend to give me better results. Fervor kills squishies insanely fast.

%Healing/Shield is awesome on Janna/Soraka because their heals are huge and the return is better. Taric's numbers are so small, it ends up sort of noobtrappy unless you get it accidentally. Honestly, the best healing boost he has access to is likely Chalice.

I still think he makes a better disruptor and frontliner than a dedicated healer. I dump gold in defense.

khorneyJan 10, 20171 votes

coem talk when as taric and only taric u can duo baron at 20 min as soon as u have knights vow. im not dedicating healing.... he is just better for several reasons 1 you shield people off w 2. you heal people off q? trust me its better

SkiasJan 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

coem talk when as taric and only taric u can duo baron at 20 min as soon as u have knights vow. im not dedicating healing.... he is just better for several reasons 1 you shield people off w 2. you heal people off q? trust me its better

Lol, it's not my first rodeo bud. I've built it. I've had builds fail me and I've had builds that consistently win me fights. Ascension, Randuins. Items like those have served me well. I'm approaching 300k mastery with Taric. I play him pretty much exclusively if I'm not with friends. Really though, Anivia is my climber because of how bad bottom lane is at the moment.

SkiasJan 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

coem talk when as taric and only taric u can duo baron at 20 min as soon as u have knights vow. im not dedicating healing.... he is just better for several reasons 1 you shield people off w 2. you heal people off q? trust me its better

You aren't stealing baron very easily when fighting platinums and diamonds. Sure, sometimes they still make bad plays, but sneaking baron is less likely and too risky. So congrats on doing that, I won't be attempting it in ranked against superior players than myself.

khorneyJan 10, 20171 votes

its not stealing or sneaking baron . no on ebarons at 20 mins when the rest of ur team are mid..... literally with knights vow u cannt die to baron

SkiasJan 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

its not stealing or sneaking baron . no on ebarons at 20 mins when the rest of ur team are mid..... literally with knights vow u cannt die to baron

Randuin's omen is literally better. If I wanted the effect of Knight's Vow, I'd take Bond of Stone. Definitely do not like that item.

khorneyJan 10, 20171 votes

yah i forgot gaining heals armor and reducing damage from a person is def crap

SkiasJan 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

yah i forgot gaining heals armor and reducing damage from a person is def crap

Marksman are so incredibly bad at this moment, I feel like that passive would be a lot better if they were less bad at the moment. If you look at the current meta, supports need to be far more self sufficient than they have been in the past. I feel as though the "link-up" items will be bad until we see a resurgence of marksmen. Maybe the Lucian and Draven buff will help? Time will tell. I've seen you build that item really often with a ton of losses, I just don't see it.

I'd rather have Randuin's Omen faster and really be there to peel for my allies.

SkiasJan 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

its not about different playstyles its the fact windskeepers more effcieient on him then the other masteries. Simply due to the fact that he heals and shield so why wouldnt you take it?

If we're talking numbers on paper efficiency, CotC probably wins, best case scenario. Thing is super overtuned.

Big LincolnJan 10, 20171 votes

don't care, i hate reworked taric so im not gonna play him unless bard gets sniped from me

dont even want to call this mistake taric tbh

SkiasJan 10, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1XtK3Pc3,comment-id=0000000000000002000100010001,timestamp=2017-01-10T17:10:54.632+0000)

don't care, i hate reworked taric so im not gonna play him unless bard gets sniped from me

dont even want to call this mistake taric tbh

Fair enough, I was a Taric main before and I'm a Taric main now. There are those of us who like him.

Maximum MordeJan 10, 20171 votes

Dazzle is too unreliable now. It's potential is high, but it's failure rate is also high. Not worth the change. Old dazzle was a million times better because reliability is in fact important.

SkiasJan 10, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1XtK3Pc3,comment-id=00000000000000020002,timestamp=2017-01-10T16:50:15.409+0000)

Dazzle is too unreliable now. It's potential is high, but it's failure rate is also high. Not worth the change. Old dazzle was a million times better because reliability is in fact important.

His old dazzle also did less damage and stunned for less time. He basically couldn't do shit with it unless he was right next to you. His old kit was potato. A stun that scales with being closer to the enemy as the slowest melee in the game with no mobility.

Edit: If you Dazzle off someone like Vi, Ez, Ahri, Riven, etc with high mobility, Dazzle is almost a 100% hit. It's super easy.

OleandervineJan 10, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1XtK3Pc3,comment-id=00000000000000020002,timestamp=2017-01-10T16:50:15.409+0000)

Dazzle is too unreliable now. It's potential is high, but it's failure rate is also high. Not worth the change. Old dazzle was a million times better because reliability is in fact important.

Old Dazzle could hit one target, and that is it. The new Dazzle, while being a skill shot, can have a much, much larger impact on a team fight. Furthermore, you have to be skilled to land it, and with enough play, you can reap the rewards as you get used to the delay and how to position the stun - you also forget that the new Dazzle originates from Taric and the Bastion target, meaning that your reach for the spell is incredible. I cannot tell you how many times I have double stunned the ADC and Support in lane, or stunned an incoming jungler, or peeled a jungler or melee off my ADC by carefully positioning the Dazzle. You also don't take into account that even if you can't hit with Dazzle, it will force your enemies to reposition to avoid it. Anything that can force your enemies to change their course of action can give you an advantage. Using Dazzle to corral your enemies into a position you want them in can be just as good as hitting them with the stun, if you can set it up right.

Maximum MordeJan 10, 20171 votes

Yes, new Dazzle has very high potential. However, the reliability is more valuable to me than potential. If the fight depends on me landing my ability on a critical target, I'm going with the guaranteed one every time. There are better choices if I want AOE cc, and bettwr choices for reliable cc. Only thing Taric has going for him is that his is on a basic ability, and his ult. Just isn't enough. I wanted him to be good, but he's just not for me. He's just hilariously outclassed in my hands by the other champs in my roster. RIP Pink Taric.

OleandervineJan 10, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1XtK3Pc3,comment-id=0000000000000002000200010000,timestamp=2017-01-10T17:05:35.988+0000)

Yes, new Dazzle has very high potential. However, the reliability is more valuable to me than potential. If the fight depends on me landing my ability on a critical target, I'm going with the guaranteed one every time. There are better choices if I want AOE cc, and bettwr choices for reliable cc. Only thing Taric has going for him is that his is on a basic ability, and his ult. Just isn't enough. I wanted him to be good, but he's just not for me. He's just hilariously outclassed in my hands by the other champs in my roster. RIP Pink Taric.

Well, that's in your hands though. I main support, and I main him to great success, as do many other people. Just because you don't have success with him doesn't make him a bad champion. In fact, he's got the 5th highest win rate of all supports.

Maximum MordeJan 10, 20171 votes

I'd hope so, given his really low pick rate. I'd be impressed if he had winrates and playrates like Janna, Blitz, Nami, Leona, etc.

But he wont cause his new kit is snorefest.

SkiasJan 10, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1XtK3Pc3,comment-id=0000000000000002000200010000,timestamp=2017-01-10T17:05:35.988+0000)

Yes, new Dazzle has very high potential. However, the reliability is more valuable to me than potential. If the fight depends on me landing my ability on a critical target, I'm going with the guaranteed one every time. There are better choices if I want AOE cc, and bettwr choices for reliable cc. Only thing Taric has going for him is that his is on a basic ability, and his ult. Just isn't enough. I wanted him to be good, but he's just not for me. He's just hilariously outclassed in my hands by the other champs in my roster. RIP Pink Taric.

I guess if you can't land a simple skill shot attached to a high mobility ally. Hell, Anivia's Q is harder to land than Dazzle and I have no problem with that. I find it ridiculously easy to land.

Maximum MordeJan 10, 20171 votes

I can land it, but not 100% Nobody can. If those misses happen late game, you've just lost. Not worth risk.

SkiasJan 10, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1XtK3Pc3,comment-id=000000000000000200020001000000010000,timestamp=2017-01-10T17:21:58.881+0000)

I can land it, but not 100% Nobody can. If those misses happen late game, you've just lost. Not worth risk.

It's a 3 second CD, how is it lost?

Maximum MordeJan 10, 20171 votes

Because your carry is now dead?

SkiasJan 10, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1XtK3Pc3,comment-id=000000000000000200020001000000010000,timestamp=2017-01-10T17:21:58.881+0000)

I can land it, but not 100% Nobody can. If those misses happen late game, you've just lost. Not worth risk.

And actually because it originates from the center of the model, casting it off of Amumu, Vi, Malphite or WW is a 100% cast. It cannot miss.

chipndip1Jan 11, 20171 votes

But Taric is pretty outclassed atm.

khorneyJan 10, 20173 votes

im with you there because old taric could go top and smash any ad top laner. this taric i guess could but it would be unwise.

SkiasJan 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

im with you there because old taric could go top and smash any ad top laner. this taric i guess could but it would be unwise.

I play him top all the time, He's still pretty goddamn strong with Fervor. Bastion stacks it really fast.

BastionKrossJan 10, 20172 votes

Support Taric, right now, is like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. The support role demands power early, because that's the nature of the role. You have to be strong early on to help your bot lane carry when he's at his weakest.

Taric is a hyper scaling champion like Nasus; he starts off pathetically weak and grows into a raid boss. A late game Taric is one scary motherfucker, whether you're AD or not. In the laning phase, Taric's abilities are weak because they scale off armor/HP and they have prohibitive mana costs (that never really go away, since late game Taric is pretty much forced to build a couple big ticket mana items to do what he needs to do). Hell, I'd be willing to try a few games rushing a tear on him.

So you can acknowledge the disconnect here. Taric is marketed as a support, but his power curve screams solo laner.

SkiasJan 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Support Taric, right now, is like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. The support role demands power early, because that's the nature of the role. You have to be strong early on to help your bot lane carry when he's at his weakest.

Taric is a hyper scaling champion like Nasus; he starts off pathetically weak and grows into a raid boss. A late game Taric is one scary motherfucker, whether you're AD or not. In the laning phase, Taric's abilities are weak because they scale off armor/HP and they have prohibitive mana costs (that never really go away, since late game Taric is pretty much forced to build a couple big ticket mana items to do what he needs to do). Hell, I'd be willing to try a few games rushing a tear on him.

So you can acknowledge the disconnect here. Taric is marketed as a support, but his power curve screams solo laner.

Yeah, this is a great description of his situation. I've had success with him Top and Jungle because he uses big boy items so well. I... like tear on him, but it makes his early game much much worse. I can only pull it off against really low threat opponents. Taric's 6 item is redic good though, for sure.