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I find Phantom dancer to be weaker than intended

Daddy ReTaric··1 votes·1,956 views

Everyone screams the shield is OP for ADC, but it's not really strong, it's actually weaker. We lost the 12% damage reduction and got a shield added. Yes for some the shield value is fairly big(240-600) scaling from levels 9 to 18 . However when we look at Maw of Malmortius it grant a flat shield that absord 350 magic damage but also have a flat 55 magic resist alongside the shield so the value remain good and it also reduce damage from every source. So they made the PD shield bigger because of no resitance paired with the item so the shield got bigger. However, Maw shield last 5 second(same for hexdrinker shield) but Phantom dancer shield last only 2 second.. it's way to short to be really useful and any valuable. Right now I would still prefer to get Maw over PD because the main reason it's better is because it provide resistance alongside. I would get Phantom dancer against AD team as the shield can be helpful but the duration is too short to even be good so I might as well pick a GA instead. All for to get the point, standarize the Phantom dancer shield to 5 second as it is on Maw.

13 Comments

WeeWeeBojangles2 votes

Not really necessary to change it. The problem with the old PD passive, which reduced 12% damage from the last target attacked, was that it offered nothing against assassins. If talon, rengar, khazix, etc come out of nowhere and one shot you then this doesn't do anything. There is only a 2 second shield because this item is designed specifically so that ADC's don't get one shot in under 2 seconds by assassins. PD is great against ad assassins.

You can argue that maw would be a better choice against a team with an ap assassin like lb or katarina. But don't forget PD also gives you 25% crit. You can still have a 2 item power spike with 50% crit while also not having to worry about getting deleted. PD goes instantly into you build while maw is more of a 3rd or 4th item on an adc if needed.

Play a few games as an assassin if the opponent is smart enough to build PD you will definitely tell that its doing something.

Daddy ReTaric1 votes

{quoted}

Not really necessary to change it. The problem with the old PD passive, which reduced 12% damage from the last target attacked, was that it offered nothing against assassins. If talon, rengar, khazix, etc come out of nowhere and one shot you then this doesn't do anything. There is only a 2 second shield because this item is designed specifically so that ADC's don't get one shot in under 2 seconds by assassins. PD is great against ad assassins.

You can argue that maw would be a better choice against a team with an ap assassin like lb or katarina. But don't forget PD also gives you 25% crit. You can still have a 2 item power spike with 50% crit while also not having to worry about getting deleted. PD goes instantly into you build while maw is more of a 3rd or 4th item on an adc if needed.

Play a few games as an assassin if the opponent is smart enough to build PD you will definitely tell that its doing something.

yea but I don't get issue against assassins in general so .

WeeWeeBojangles1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Quinn Is Bae,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1QWYP0Aj,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-07T21:34:42.727+0000)

yea but I don't get issue against assassins in general so .

OK so the PD item has a short shield duration because its designed to stop adc's from being bursted. Steraks and maw have a longer shield duration because its designed for champions that are front lining and taking constant damage. An adc is supposed to stay back so the only damage they take is if they get dove or assassinated.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

Not really necessary to change it. The problem with the old PD passive, which reduced 12% damage from the last target attacked, was that it offered nothing against assassins. If talon, rengar, khazix, etc come out of nowhere and one shot you then this doesn't do anything. There is only a 2 second shield because this item is designed specifically so that ADC's don't get one shot in under 2 seconds by assassins. PD is great against ad assassins.

You can argue that maw would be a better choice against a team with an ap assassin like lb or katarina. But don't forget PD also gives you 25% crit. You can still have a 2 item power spike with 50% crit while also not having to worry about getting deleted. PD goes instantly into you build while maw is more of a 3rd or 4th item on an adc if needed.

Play a few games as an assassin if the opponent is smart enough to build PD you will definitely tell that its doing something.

Old PD had more attack speed though, and more crit too. Why buy new PD when a GA does its job better?

WeeWeeBojangles1 votes

All crit items only give 25%. RF, Hurricane, stattik and pd all got their crit items reduced by 5%. Thats not that big sure the attack speed nerf was pretty significant. GA is NOT better than PD lets compare.

PD is 2600 gold. You get 30% attack speed, 25% crit and 5% movement speed. Then you get the 2 passives ghosting and lifeline (90 second cool down). Statwise it is the same as rapidfire canon. Now most ADC's are rushing IE first and a zeal item second. So the nice thing about PD is it fits into 2 of the 3 criterias that an adc wants to meet, and thats a higher critical strike chance, and attack speed, the bonus movement speed is always a plus. Whether an ADC is ahead or behind they always want to be a high dps threat.

Now lets look at Guardian Angel. For 2800 gold you get 45 AD and 40 armor. GA has a unique passive: Upon taking lethal damage go into stasis and revive with 50% of you hp and 30% of your mana (300 second cooldown) I can guarante you that After IE nobody is considering into rushing into a GA second item. Its pretty gold inefficient to go GA second. Doesn't give you any crit chance, any attack speed, and the armor is useless against a heavy ap team. When behind in a game as an ADC GA is never a priority item. GA is sort of a third party item so to speak. Similar to Merc scimitar, Maw, Last whisper and blood thirster. Situationally those items can be useful but its not a core item to the success to a strong adc.

So in short PD is good against both AP and Ad burst. The cool down on lifeline is 90 seconds compared to the 300 seconds of GA, Crit and attack speed is crucial to most adcs, armor is not. AS and crit is always good to build whether ahead or behind. GA is only good to buy when ahead, its a poor item when your score is 2-8

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

All crit items only give 25%. RF, Hurricane, stattik and pd all got their crit items reduced by 5%. Thats not that big sure the attack speed nerf was pretty significant. GA is NOT better than PD lets compare.

PD is 2600 gold. You get 30% attack speed, 25% crit and 5% movement speed. Then you get the 2 passives ghosting and lifeline (90 second cool down). Statwise it is the same as rapidfire canon. Now most ADC's are rushing IE first and a zeal item second. So the nice thing about PD is it fits into 2 of the 3 criterias that an adc wants to meet, and thats a higher critical strike chance, and attack speed, the bonus movement speed is always a plus. Whether an ADC is ahead or behind they always want to be a high dps threat.

Now lets look at Guardian Angel. For 2800 gold you get 45 AD and 40 armor. GA has a unique passive: Upon taking lethal damage go into stasis and revive with 50% of you hp and 30% of your mana (300 second cooldown) I can guarante you that After IE nobody is considering into rushing into a GA second item. Its pretty gold inefficient to go GA second. Doesn't give you any crit chance, any attack speed, and the armor is useless against a heavy ap team. When behind in a game as an ADC GA is never a priority item. GA is sort of a third party item so to speak. Similar to Merc scimitar, Maw, Last whisper and blood thirster. Situationally those items can be useful but its not a core item to the success to a strong adc.

So in short PD is good against both AP and Ad burst. The cool down on lifeline is 90 seconds compared to the 300 seconds of GA, Crit and attack speed is crucial to most adcs, armor is not. AS and crit is always good to build whether ahead or behind. GA is only good to buy when ahead, its a poor item when your score is 2-8

The problem is oftentimes doing a bit more damage might have saved you in the first place. I’m not going to imply it isn’t a decent buy, but it being so cost ineffective can set you behind.

Furthermore, I would argue that this item is once again “a poor item when your score is 2-8.” Building defensively is a “when ahead” move. If you’re behind, building more defense is going to cement your loss.

All this will do is ahead adc’s will be able to bow fit GA, mercurial scimitar, AND a sterak’s phantom dancer shield into one build. A rough build many crit adc’s will potentially be going now is PD, IE, scimitar, GA, last whisper upgrade, boots.

WeeWeeBojangles2 votes

Yes often times dealing a bit more damage Might have saved you in the first place. However, You arent doing any damage to the talon, rengar, leblanc, khazix, or whatever assassin that kills you in under 0.07 seconds. The new PD wasn't designed For dueling. It was designed so that adc's dont get instantly killed whenever an assassin has their ult up. PD isn't supposed to be a core item on an ADC. It's supposed to be a situational item if your opponent has a champion with a lot of burst.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

Yes often times dealing a bit more damage Might have saved you in the first place. However, You arent doing any damage to the talon, rengar, leblanc, khazix, or whatever assassin that kills you in under 0.07 seconds. The new PD wasn't designed For dueling. It was designed so that adc's dont get instantly killed whenever an assassin has their ult up. PD isn't supposed to be a core item on an ADC. It's supposed to be a situational item if your opponent has a champion with a lot of burst.

So what it comes down to is an item that is either consistently overpowered or useless? I don’t really believe the new phantom dancer is easily balanceable.

Crippling your damage output when you are behind is a good way to lose. I hold my stance that the new phantom dancer will only be good to hold your lead. If you’re behind it’s not going to save you from a fed assassin or mage.

Marshbouy1 votes

I don't even notice the shield most of the time.

Daddy ReTaric1 votes

{quoted}

I don't even notice the shield most of the time.

Me neither, It's white but doesn't have special effect like Maw shield . It appear in your health bar and that's it. Some visual should get added as well.

Daddy Ants2 votes

{quoted}

I don't even notice the shield most of the time.

I didn't notice it last night when a underfed Nocturne was R'ing me and killing me.

It's literally 1 auto attack or a spells worth of damage, nothing op about it.

Tahminatrix 1 votes

5 seconds seems kinda long, how about 4? Jhin

Daddy ReTaric1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Super Cow Swag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1QWYP0Aj,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-02-07T23:01:53.365+0000)

5 seconds seems kinda long, how about 4? Jhin

Lmao

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