This item cause a balance mess on champion 
and any on hit abuser like 
. Vayne being able to fucking do 14% of max health true damave every 2 fucking auto need to get removed . WHO THINK THIS IS FUCKING HEALTHY?
P.S: Sorry for my behaviour but it's really cancer to face.
Add 
to the list
Hayaishi233 votesPhantom hit just removes the supposed weakness of having 3 hit passives.
Daddy ReTaric10 votesPhantom hit just removes the supposed weakness of having 3 hit passives.
It really does.
kingDeDeDarius3 votesPhantom hit just removes the supposed weakness of having 3 hit passives.
You can say that again lol
Divewing1 votesI do wonder sometimes if KaiSa's passive had 5 stacks specifically because Guinsoos...
Avious4 votesI think removing the interaction with stacking passives would fix the item. That way we get to keep the extra damage for Varus, Kaisa etc without breaking their passives COUGHVAYNECOUGH After all, it's a very core item for the likes of Kalista and Kog, both of which are finally at an ok state and would be hell trying to rebalance them without it.
Just my two cents.
Daddy ReTaric2 votesI think removing the interaction with stacking passives would fix the item. That way we get to keep the extra damage for Varus, Kaisa etc without breaking their passives COUGHVAYNECOUGH After all, it's a very core item for the likes of Kalista and Kog, both of which are finally at an ok state and would be hell trying to rebalance them without it.
Just my two cents.
It's easier to balance champion kit if they really need it than it is to balance an item for a wide diversity of champion..
aaaustindestroy11 votesJust because something's easier doesn't mean it's better. With balancing you need to target the source of the issue rather than the issue itself.
For example, if you want to stop drunk drivers from killing sober drivers, you wouldn't ban sober drivers from driving, you'd ban drunk drivers and put laws in place to prevent that. It's a similar line of reasoning here.
Frosted Tips24 votesIt is Phantom Hits. They have broke so many items and champions. Phantom Hits have been on I believe 3 or 4 2 items and both items have been unhealthy.
Pokemonred2006 votesOnly two (It was on Sated Devourer in Seasons 5 and 6, and on Rageblade in Season 6+)
Though imo, Phantom Hit isn't what made Sated Devourer unhealthy, it's the fact that it wasn't really punishable to sit in the jungle for 20 minutes and come out with Sated + 
, 
or old 
(when its passive was essentially a 
) because Sated having 50% AS and 60 on-hit damage as a base made it + one of the three above on-hit items all you really needed for damage.
Rageblade is healthier overall as a concept, but it's made a coveted effect that you had to satisfy a specific condition to unlock become something really easily accessible. I feel like if Phantom Hit was harder to access but not made exclusive to a specific class, it would be an okay mechanic.
Tiure2 votesI almost forgot Feral Flare wasn't phantom hit.
14daysuspensionk7 votesI must say this English grammar is not healthy.
SpaghettiVase6 votesJust a complaint, can we stop using the term abuse when champions are literally BALANCED AND DESIGNED around things. Kai'sa isn't an on-hit abuser, she was literally designed for on hit damage.
AirKingNeo1 votesbut then we couldn't circlejerk
Bob the Toastr5 votesTotally agree. When they first came out with devourer and the phantom hit, I thought it was a really interesting idea. Now I see that in practice it's a terrible concept for balancing. It needs to go.
The thigh guy4 votesHey look. Another Vayne hit piece. It’s not like her true damage is litteraly all the champion does. But garen having what may as well be a 74% missing hp true damage execute is perfectly fine
Daddy ReTaric11 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R4ZFhZn6,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-02T19:06:25.083+0000)
Hey look. Another Vayne hit piece. It’s not like her true damage is litteraly all the champion does. But garen having what may as well be a 74% missing hp true damage execute is perfectly fine
garen require you to be low damage and if you ain't the villain it does magic damage so hexdrinker counter it..
The thigh guy1 votes[{quoted}](name=Quinn Is Bae,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R4ZFhZn6,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-02T19:40:57.486+0000)
garen require you to be low damage and if you ain't the villain it does magic damage so hexdrinker counter it..
Garen’s Ult does not require you to be low health. And if you are marked as a villain it does true damage, So hexdrinker does not work. Not to mention how shit an item hex drinker is into garen.
525 + 40% missing hp damage.
Let’s say you are gangplank, with about 2000 hp. You get hit with garens q with triforce. 700 damage 1300 left He presses r. 40% missing is roughly 300 1000 left 525 ult damage 425
You were hit by 2 undodgeabke Abilities.
kingDeDeDarius4 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R4ZFhZn6,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-02T21:00:51.339+0000)
Garen’s Ult does not require you to be low health. And if you are marked as a villain it does true damage, So hexdrinker does not work. Not to mention how shit an item hex drinker is into garen.
525 + 40% missing hp damage.
Let’s say you are gangplank, with about 2000 hp. You get hit with garens q with triforce. 700 damage 1300 left He presses r. 40% missing is roughly 300 1000 left 525 ult damage 425
You were hit by 2 undodgeabke Abilities.
LMAO that's assuming that garen can even touch gp, vayne most certainly would kill go faster unless go got lucky and barreled her. You seem to be implying lvl 16 or higher at that point. But at that point ho has more than 2k HP and garens q doesn't deal true damage, so it's possible with ninja tabi or guardian angel, etc that garen q wouldn't even deal that kind of damage. Also, garen can choose who is the villain and there can only be one villain. Vayne gets insane percent hp WITHOUT LIMITS OTHER THAN ATTACK SPEED, DYING, OR RUNNING. aka, she, as a super mobile, ranged champ, with self peel, can proceed that on every champ during a fight, on a basic ability.........and raheblade passive only makes it stronger. Stop ying and pretending g that garen is even comparable for the sake of your argument. To make it worse, if gp is fed enough in the late game to be villain, he's probably a decent gp with triforce and some crit, in which case he will totally kite, barrel, troll, and delete garen because garen had no outplay mechanics without flash...unlike vayne
aaaustindestroy11 votesGaren cannot choose the Villain. The Villain is the player on the enemy team with the most recent kill. (Unless they changed it recently and I missed that).
Daddy ReTaric2 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R4ZFhZn6,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-02T21:00:51.339+0000)
Garen’s Ult does not require you to be low health. And if you are marked as a villain it does true damage, So hexdrinker does not work. Not to mention how shit an item hex drinker is into garen.
525 + 40% missing hp damage.
Let’s say you are gangplank, with about 2000 hp. You get hit with garens q with triforce. 700 damage 1300 left He presses r. 40% missing is roughly 300 1000 left 525 ult damage 425
You were hit by 2 undodgeabke Abilities.
Nice math, sucks that the base damage is applied before the 40%. I also doubt Garen hit 700 with triforce unless you are a bunch of level behind and without any equipement. Even then it's not possible.
The thigh guy1 votes[{quoted}](name=Quinn Is Bae,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R4ZFhZn6,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2019-02-02T22:16:29.488+0000)
Nice math, sucks that the base damage is applied before the 40%. I also doubt Garen hit 700 with triforce unless you are a bunch of level behind and without any equipement. Even then it's not possible.
Do the math and you’ll see I applied the 40% missing hp before the base damages.
And fine. I’ll do the math for garens q as well.
We are gonna say 200 ad at eh level 12. So garen has triforce and steriks. (Not exact, but it’s rounded down) He also has roughly 2150 hp
Grasp of the undying = 4% max hp 86 damage.
Triforce proc = 200% base ad Base ad 110.3x2 = 220.6. 220
Rank 5 q = 150(+40% ad) + auto attack damage. 200+150+80+86+220 = 716 damage.
Daddy ReTaric1 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R4ZFhZn6,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-02-03T02:32:57.886+0000)
Do the math and you’ll see I applied the 40% missing hp before the base damages.
And fine. I’ll do the math for garens q as well.
We are gonna say 200 ad at eh level 12. So garen has triforce and steriks. (Not exact, but it’s rounded down) He also has roughly 2150 hp
Grasp of the undying = 4% max hp 86 damage.
Triforce proc = 200% base ad Base ad 110.3x2 = 220.6. 220
Rank 5 q = 150(+40% ad) + auto attack damage. 200+150+80+86+220 = 716 damage.
You forget one thing... if he have triforce, he doesn,t have black cleaver and you didn,t take in consideration defense. Sorry but Garen doesn't do 700 damage per Q. I know it, I've mained Garen for multiple seasons.
aaaustindestroy11 votesYour name is Quinn is Bae. OP.gg reports that you haven't played Garen at all this season, and have played nothing but Quinn for quite a while. Don't make a claim if you don't have the evidence to support it ...
Daddy ReTaric2 votesYour name is Quinn is Bae. OP.gg reports that you haven't played Garen at all this season, and have played nothing but Quinn for quite a while. Don't make a claim if you don't have the evidence to support it ...
This is mostly a smurf and my past account got banned so I had to start over, but you can search Press Q Win for information.
Daddy ReTaric6 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R4ZFhZn6,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-02T19:06:25.083+0000)
Hey look. Another Vayne hit piece. It’s not like her true damage is litteraly all the champion does. But garen having what may as well be a 74% missing hp true damage execute is perfectly fine
I don't care about Vayne, her true damage is high but I can live with it, but having phantom hit reducing the hit required for her to kill me with true damage, not so fan of it. Learn the difference.
DerPunkt2 votesI think what he tried to say is, just think of it as a AS steroid. Just without the dmg of a second AA. So eitgher get rageblade and have onhit double proc or go for AS items (Crit build) and get faste AAs just taking you slightly more time to compelte the stack but at the same time also adding the normal AA dmg.
So question is, is it realy rageblade people are complaining about ot the stack passives that accumulate into big chuncks and make it harder to avoid execute dmg ranges.
Daddy ReTaric1 votesI think what he tried to say is, just think of it as a AS steroid. Just without the dmg of a second AA. So eitgher get rageblade and have onhit double proc or go for AS items (Crit build) and get faste AAs just taking you slightly more time to compelte the stack but at the same time also adding the normal AA dmg.
So question is, is it realy rageblade people are complaining about ot the stack passives that accumulate into big chuncks and make it harder to avoid execute dmg ranges.
It's Rageblade passive, Phantom hit. This is why I listed other Guinsoo abuser.
DerPunkt1 votesDude listen... read before answering and try to understand. He just said that Rage blade -> Phantom hit works in a SIMILAR manner as just AS. You either get double on hit effects (rageblade) or build AS and get double the hits. Niothing else, op did not put any value in neither am I, he just pointed out an intereseting thought.
we all get how rage blade and Phantom hit works. This is an open space to have wild thoughts and this is all OP did and i understood and it is a nice addition to maybe find a way to rebalance the item. Cause just deleting it will lead to people building more AS to get stacks faster gain or to hit harder when they hit. OP just pointed that out.
kingDeDeDarius3 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R4ZFhZn6,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-02T19:06:25.083+0000)
Hey look. Another Vayne hit piece. It’s not like her true damage is litteraly all the champion does. But garen having what may as well be a 74% missing hp true damage execute is perfectly fine
On his ult, plus he's actually kitable and can't go invisible, has even less cc than vayne, and most importantly, has valid counterplay. I'd rather fight garen any day with almost any champ, than have to face a vayne with raheblade in her current state.
Daddy ReTaric1 votesOn his ult, plus he's actually kitable and can't go invisible, has even less cc than vayne, and most importantly, has valid counterplay. I'd rather fight garen any day with almost any champ, than have to face a vayne with raheblade in her current state.
This dude know what he talk about. Someone telling me Garen have 74% missing health ult is losing me already. Only Iron/Bronze/Silvers complain about Garen..
CM0NEY4 votesThe first three champions you listed are not OP because of Rageblade. Vayne is a balance nightmare because she deals %health true damage(WTF Rito), and the recent buff to her ulti pushed her over the edge to being a broken champion. Kai'sa is just another example of overloaded kit design. I wouldn't really describe Yi as being an OP champion, he is feast or famine.
Sire Hippington3 votesyea, phantom hit is a massive balance issue at it's tuneing, 50% damage increase for all on-hit is just to much and wraps all on-hit effects around this mechanic. I think haveing a multiplyer for on-hit effects is ok, but 50% is by far to much, a double proc every 3 or 4 hits(so 33% or 25%) would be enough. The other big issue is that putting it on guinsoo'S is just wrong aswell. Guinsioo's is(was) the prime hybrid stat stick with high numbers for the gold, gated behind the stacks. Haveing phantom hit in that mix aswell is just to much power from a single item once it's stacked. especially be cause all the AS it gives works as an extra multiplyer for on-hit and phantomhit. It's like giveing old IE(50% increased critdamage) also a 50% crit chance on top of the 80 ad, and maybe throw in some AS for fun aswell...
Anime Fizz3 votesAs much as i agree that phantom hit breaks the game you have to understand why it exists.
Its basically the "IE" of on hit items, without it on hit would become trash again and only a early game stat (like it used to be).
Daddy ReTaric1 votes[{quoted}](name=Anime Fizz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R4ZFhZn6,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2019-02-03T02:40:30.336+0000)
As much as i agree that phantom hit breaks the game you have to understand why it exists.
Its basically the "IE" of on hit items, without it on hit would become trash again and only a early game stat (like it used to be).
Well it's meant to be early mid game, not late game monster like we have now. Snowball game happen very often now anyway.
Sire Hippington1 votesYes, and look what happened to IE, it's 50% amp for crits got first changed to something else and now it will return as 25% amp. The idea of an on-hit amp is fine, but the tuneing is problematic, as 50% increase in power is just massive, and unlike crit, many kits have strong on-hit in their kit so they can rush rageblade for the amp, while only tryn has crit in his kit without other items. Another refference would be Rabadons with the 40% increase, and again champs don't have base AP so it only interacts with stats from other items unlike phantom hit(exept veigar), and unlike crit or on-hit it AP does not have other multiplyers, while on-hit scales with AS and crit scales with AS and AD.
The high tuneing and the big variance of on-hit on different champs makes pohantomhit a big balance issue.
Redbloblack3 votestf you talking about vayne or yi when you play on quin
BLIGHTBRINGER3 votesWhat if the Phantom On-Hit effect was replaced with a Passive which removed Attack Speed Cap at 6 Guinsoo's Rageblade Stacks?
I feel like On-Hit items and 3 hit Passives would be somewhat worthless without this, unless they all got individual buffs which would allow to keep up with Crit Users.
KFCeytron3 votesHalf the shit Riot puts into the game these days breaks fundamental assumptions. Phantom Hit is just one problem of many.
Annie doesn't have a dash? BLAST CONE! Lucian won't be hiding in Zhonya's because he's AD? TAHM KENCH! Armor? CONQUEROR! Players have to invest several items to attain 100% crit rate in late game? STORMRAZOR! A champion's ult behaves in a given way every time it's used? SYLAS!
They do this all the time and it's absolutely perplexing.
Flavi Kang3 votesYou main a squishy champion. Don't you think you need to worry about 
more than guinsoo and conqueror users?
Oh wait, you don't complain about them because Quinn also uses the same runes as assassins. So if they get nerfed, then Quinn gets nerfed too. It makes sense now.
AirKingNeo1 votesand yet none of those assassins are meta. Also Leblanc, who is meta, is a mage.
Fun when mages are literally the most broken class.
SlashStriker3 votesI kinda wonder when people will start talking about CC + burst
When Yi is behind he can't do shit unlike champions like Malphite that even if behind they can still knock up the entire enemy team and do something lategame. Not to mention how annoying Quinn is to deal with
Also if you remove phantom hit from rageblade will make it worthless to buy
Witch of Babylon2 votesWhy would you add Kalista to the list?
Sir Saltarin3 votesBecause Kalista buys it
AirKingNeo1 votesbarely
Sir Saltarin1 votesWell I think it's worth to mention.
Kinda sad that you wont see me more with the other account btw, mod issues lets say.
Daddy ReTaric2 votes[{quoted}](name=Witch of Babylon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=R4ZFhZn6,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-02-02T20:54:08.485+0000)
Why would you add Kalista to the list?
She got added her because she use Guinsoo phantom hit to stack her rend 2x faster. She is unplayed but still annoying to play against. Her core item get Blade of ruined king so she basically will shred you to piece if the Kalista player is half decent.
AirKingNeo2 votesRageblade is nerfed to fucking hell. Kayle, Kog'maw, and Varus are complete shit now. Kalista was already shit. Master Yi has never ever been strong or even meta in the past 3 years.
What's your plan to compensate them for when you remove an item that isn't a problem?
