As a jungler, listening to your team loses you games

L Psy Kongroo··65 votes·5,562 views

Why? Because there are 4 other players on your team, and they all want different things. If you try to make one of them happy, it pisses off the others because they're not getting what they want. And since you can't make all of them happy at once, you're better off just doing what YOU think is the right call. If it fails, then you can chalk it up as a learning experience for next time. If it works, it's a positive motivator for success.

E.g. Your top laner wants a gank. Sure, you could gank for them and potentially snowball that lane. But in doing so, your mid laner might die 1v1 to their lane opponent, and bot lane might get ganked by the enemy jungler, which will result in a lost dragon and/or tower. Or the enemies might roam mid, kill your mid laner, and get mid tower. Will a single kill in top lane be worth all that? Probably not, especially if the enemy top laner has TP available.

In such situations, the best advice is to simply ignore all of them. Mute them if you have to. Don't gank simply because a laner wants a gank. Don't gank out of some misplaced sense of guilt over your laner being camped, or out-played. Don't even gank because they're telling you it's a good time to gank (e.g. if they have no summs, if their ult is down). Simply note the variables for what they are and analyze accordingly. If an enemy laner has no summoners, the probability of a successful gank in that lane rises. But always keep in mind WHY you're ganking, and what you hope to accomplish with your gank. If you get a kill, what then? Can you take the tower? Secure Herald/Dragon? Deny resources? Roam elsewhere? If all that will come out of the gank is a kill, it may be worth your time to look elsewhere.

The jungler is not there to cater to the whims of the laners. The jungler is there to exert the greatest amount of pressure in the most strategically appropriate place at the time. If you as the jungler are being pulled in multiple directions by your team members, your own judgement will be impaired and your performance will decrease. Never assume your laners have the game's best interests at heart. The jungler must be impartial, objective, and tactful. The jungler must be able to take a seemingly endless set of variables with no obvious cohesion and tie them together in a way that ensures the most likely course to victory.

Always remember that, while you should NEVER outright ignore information, there are times when you must decide not to act on it.

53 Comments

Knoyle6 votes

ADC wants you to gank at lvl 2? NO

Mid laner having trouble with a kite heavy champ? Not until i get an item.

Top enemy laner pushing harder than a woman in labor? Maybe.

Otherwise farm your ass off and look for times you can make a solid gank.

Also never dive for a laner. Just don't do it. Don't gank when they are really low either. Pisses me off real hard when they demand a gank at 21% hp.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

{quoted}

ADC wants you to gank at lvl 2? NO

Not even on Shaco, bb. That right is reserved for the mid laner.

L Psy Kongroo1 votes

{quoted}

Not even on Shaco, bb. That right is reserved for the mid laner.

I dunno, if I've got a really snowbally lane like Draven+Thresh or something, I'll gank at level 2 as Shaco. But even then, a whole host of factors come into play. What's their bot lane comp? Is their jungler able to counter-gank? Will I get invaded if I show bot that early? Will we get kills, or just force summoners?

Sohleks4 votes

Ever get one of those players that says he has his lane taken care of, don't show top?

WadeWilson13372 votes

2g fanboys...

Sohleks1 votes

Heh. Yes. I had Nasus in mind when I wrote that

Captain Aishi1 votes

whenever I play nasus in a lane that I have kill pressure on, I warn my jungler to pass top and collect 300G

darkmatchwaldo1 votes

Udyr summoner 12 summoner 6

U wot m8

L Psy Kongroo6 votes

{quoted}

Ever get one of those players that says he has his lane taken care of, don't show top?

It's funny you say that, because this post was actually inspired by my last game. We had an Illaoi vs. their Riven top lane. About 15 min in, Illaoi is 2/1/1, their Riven is 2/2/0. CS is almost dead even. Illaoi tells me that Riven has no Flash and I should gank top. Against my better judgement, I decide to come top lane. As I'm running up through the river, I see Illaoi flash+ult at Riven and 1v1 her in the span of a few seconds. Riven dies as I walk into lane. I then ask her in chat: "why did you want a gank when you could just 1v1 her yourself?" She tells me "because she has ignite" (which RIven used on her, and it didn't do one bit of good). So basically, I wasted all that time walking top lane when I could have been ganking somewhere else, farming/counter-jungling, taking drag, etc.

This doesn't just apply to top lane btw for all you top laners who think my post boils down to "never gank top lane". This could easily have been mid lane, or even bot lane. It just so happened that my examples used top lane because that's what happened in my previous game.

Sypher The Poro2 votes

I'm disappointed in that Riven player, Illaoi is such an easy lane.

But regardless, I actually agree with what you are saying. I don't know the limits of my jungler, so I shouldn't be the one telling him what to do.

Weasel Kensei1 votes

[{quoted}](name=L Psy Congroo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1PHYNAtL,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2016-03-14T14:44:43.817+0000)

It's funny you say that, because this post was actually inspired by my last game. We had an Illaoi vs. their Riven top lane. About 15 min in, Illaoi is 2/1/1, their Riven is 2/2/0. CS is almost dead even. Illaoi tells me that Riven has no Flash and I should gank top. Against my better judgement, I decide to come top lane. As I'm running up through the river, I see Illaoi flash+ult at Riven and 1v1 her in the span of a few seconds. Riven dies as I walk into lane. I then ask her in chat: "why did you want a gank when you could just 1v1 her yourself?" She tells me "because she has ignite" (which RIven used on her, and it didn't do one bit of good). So basically, I wasted all that time walking top lane when I could have been ganking somewhere else, farming/counter-jungling, taking drag, etc.

This doesn't just apply to top lane btw for all you top laners who think my post boils down to "never gank top lane". This could easily have been mid lane, or even bot lane. It just so happened that my examples used top lane because that's what happened in my previous game.

My favorite is when I ping on my way and Im like 5 seconds out from stepping foot in the lane and they go all in and die before I get there... Its like theyre afraid Il show up in their lane and get a kill and they only get an assist so they try to kill them before I get there to deny me the kill.... and feed instead. Happened many times in many games in all lanes. Ping on my way, ALMOST IN LANE, die in a pointless trade instead of letting me initiate. Particularly annoying when Im Vi and she has a guaranteed catch in her kit....

Supreme Senpai691 votes

I actually tell my jungler not to gank my lane when I'm bot unless mid roams, top TPs, or we're being ganked. Which happens a lot, granted. But I usually always win lane and having a jungler there when not needed just:

  1. Makes me lose EXP when they soak it, putting us behind.
  2. Makes my ADC lose CS when they tax it, putting us behind and pushing up the wave.
  3. Let's everyone on the enemy team know where the jungler is, putting the entire team at a disadvantage.
  4. Doesn't get us anything, because we're already winning and we have them pushed up to their tower, which puts the rest of the team behind because you could be helping lanes that actually need it instead.
  5. They'll usually attack the tower, not understanding that keeping it up extends the laning phase, putting us behind because we're winning the laning phase. Soon as that tower falls it's not safe to farm bot anymore and it frees up a lane we were getting kills from.

I think mid is probably the most important lane to gank, but you should only gank if you can burn a flash from them or get a kill. Otherwise it's not worth the time spent there.

Stephenizgod2 votes

My only issue with Junglers is when one lane is being camped or the enemy Jungler is ganking all lanes and all lanes are losing because of it. This is basically the equivalent of you losing lane, you are being out jungled. If Top lane is being camped you need to make a choice, Counter-gank or steamroll Bot/Mid and take Dragon. You can't just do nothing and keep farming, that is giving the enemy jungler free gold, xp, and objective control plus one of the enemy lanes is snowballing for free. I don't really care if you are going Devourer, that is no excuse to sit back and afk farm, a 4v5 is damn near impossible to win, specially when the enemy jungler is making every lane a 2v1 or 3v2. Sure you could come back and carry but if all lanes are 6+ kills up and 3 levels above us, you probably wont be able to carry that.

A) Devourer does not give you the excuse to AFK Farm, there are multiple ways to get stacks that benefit your entire team.
B) If one lane is being camped or if the enemy jungler is ganking every lane a lot, you need to make a choice in either Counter-ganking or snowballing other lanes.
C) Pay attention to Dragon and Rift Herald, I see a lot of Junglers expecting the laners to be watching them but laners need to CS and deal with their lane opponent, basically don't be taking Krugs if the enemy JG is bot lane and Drag is up.

L Psy Kongroo1 votes

{quoted}

My only issue with Junglers is when one lane is being camped or the enemy Jungler is ganking all lanes and all lanes are losing because of it. This is basically the equivalent of you losing lane, you are being out jungled. If Top lane is being camped you need to make a choice, Counter-gank or steamroll Bot/Mid and take Dragon. You can't just do nothing and keep farming, that is giving the enemy jungler free gold, xp, and objective control plus one of the enemy lanes is snowballing for free. I don't really care if you are going Devourer, that is no excuse to sit back and afk farm, a 4v5 is damn near impossible to win, specially when the enemy jungler is making every lane a 2v1 or 3v2. Sure you could come back and carry but if all lanes are 6+ kills up and 3 levels above us, you probably wont be able to carry that.

A) Devourer does not give you the excuse to AFK Farm, there are multiple ways to get stacks that benefit your entire team.
B) If one lane is being camped or if the enemy jungler is ganking every lane a lot, you need to make a choice in either Counter-ganking or snowballing other lanes.
C) Pay attention to Dragon and Rift Herald, I see a lot of Junglers expecting the laners to be watching them but laners need to CS and deal with their lane opponent, basically don't be taking Krugs if the enemy JG is bot lane and Drag is up.

This is also true, and one thing I see very few junglers do is buy item 3711 . This item is basically like having a second Sightstone for the team. You get wards for the enemy jungle to keep track of their movements, wards for your lanes to help prevent ganks, and wards for neutral objectives to aid in contesting. The only jungler I see regularly buy this item is Lee Sin, and even then most of them go with item 3715 .

The way I see it, if you give yourself and your team enough of a gold lead through smart ganks and timely farming, you won't really need the extra damage from smite. This frees you up to grab Tracker's Knife, which helps a great deal more in the long run. The only junglers who actually NEED the blue or red smites are ones who rely on chasing and closing the gap (e.g. Volibear, Rengar, Skarner) and dueling late-game (e.g. Jax, Shyvana, Trynd, Aatrox).

I suppose the vision from red smite is also useful against a stealth-heavy team, but pink wards and red trinkets are superior in that respect.

Mirage Seraph2 votes

I think I really needed to read this to be honest. Lately a lot of my jungle games have been too adherent to what my team wants instead of what I need to do. Of all the times I threw away early pressure just because they don't have flash is astounding. Not to mention top laners LOVE to go B after killing their laner. Like. Bruh. Free Rift Herald.

Also yoooo that Steins;Gate ref

Supreme Senpai691 votes

Same with drag. Like c'mon guys I just helped you get a double. Do you not want free AD/AP? Being a jungler is like. Helping your team win the game is like pulling teeth.

Mirage Seraph1 votes

Nah man, drag's the other way around. People are often too knee jerky with dragon, at least in my games.

"YO we just double killed them, good job guys! Really close call. wait why are you guys going into river?" FREE DRAG "Bruh, their jungler didn't counter gank so he's probably close, their mid is missing, and we all have less hp than a siege minion combined" NO BOT LANE ez allyhasbeenslain.swf :^|

Granted both of my main junglers (Kha and Kindred) are more than capable of safely killing dragon solo. I typically just sneak dragon instead of relying on complete nobs to secure it with me.

Jet Sett2 votes

You should tell your team what you plan to do, that way you can sort of prevent arguments between the lanes and you. I don't mind people saying they can't/won't help, but I do mind being ignored

ll League God ll1 votes

Your problem is this - The junglers ONLY JOB is to give support to lanes who need it

Its not about babysitting... its about helping a lane thats falling behind get ahead

Yes objective control is a huge part too, but helping lanes is the primary role

If you think jungling is about anything else, youre not a good jungler

Definitely Bait24 votes

[{quoted}](name=ll League God ll,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1PHYNAtL,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-03-14T03:43:06.954+0000)

Your problem is this - The junglers ONLY JOB is to give support to lanes who need it

Its not about babysitting... its about helping a lane thats falling behind get ahead

Yes objective control is a huge part too, but helping lanes is the primary role

If you think jungling is about anything else, youre not a good jungler

Junglers Job:

  1. Taking advantage of exp / gold from neutral mobs (This is what allows top to be a solo lane)
  2. Objective control (Securing Red + Blue Buff, Rift, Dragon, Baron)
  3. Counter Jungling (Stealing Buffs, Gold, and experience from the enemy jungler)
  4. Vision / Vision Denial (Area I need to work on still)
  5. Gank

Number 5 is literally only because they're always mia and in the best position to do so. There is no obligation to gank it's up to jungler if they gank or not. If it's not a good time to gank in their mind then they should be doing one of the other 4 things.

The main reason a jungle position exists is #1 and #2 they take advantage of / utilize gold, buffs, and experience from the neutral mobs that wouldn't otherwise be utilized as easily.

Not to mention there are many factors that contribute to ganking. Can the laner provide any lockdown to help out the gank? Is there wards? Where is the other jungler? Did they feed? Is there a high chance of it just being a net loss? Am I bot while the top laner is spamming assist pings while they're 0/2/0 and 30 cs behind at 8 minutes? Is my laner tilting and just going to be worthless even if I get them fed? (Hint if they're just sitting there complaining, pinging, cursing then they're already tilted. Odds are they're not going to be worth helping. Lanes not doing that crap are probably in a better mindset to succeed. Their head is going to be more in the game rather than stuck in blind haze of rage) Where are the wards? What summoners do they have?

All of these conditions contribute a lot. Bringing a lost lane back generally will give the laner a bounty and give the enemy even more of advantage when they throw the lead (If they're already losing it's likely to happen). Not to mention the risk of being counter ganked and giving that lane a bigger lead. It's not my fault if they're behind and the risk of going there isn't worth the reward if it's a successful gank. They lost the lane. It's their fault. I cannot be on beck and call to hold their hand the whole game there are other lanes, there are other things that I have to do that give a better chance of winning. Helping bad players is just going to waste time and lower the odds of winning it's that simple.

Oh, and another thing if the gank is successful I'm going to push the wave into the turret to deny them more cs. This is helping the laner. If the laner wants to rage or wants to afk they're being stupid plain and simple. I'll just report them after the match and move on. Oh, and by doing this they've just proven they are not worth helping.

Devourer junglers are a special case. You should literally play like your jungler is afk until they call for drag / rift or hit sated. A major win condition for devourer junglers is hitting sated and wasting time delays it. Devourer junglers shouldn't be ganking unless it's not that far out of the way and is completely free. Their main objective is hitting sated as soon as possible so they can take advantage of the giant power spike and win. If you're expecting ganks out of a devourer jungler you are playing wrong plain and simple.

A jungler constantly ganking and not doing anything else will eventually fall behind and become irrelevant. They won't be getting much experience or gold and if the enemy is actually smart the ganks will not give much if anything anyway. Against good players ganking 24/7 is just giving yourself a disadvantage via lost experience and gold from not clearing camps. The other jungler will be stronger and higher level as the game progresses unless your opponents are complete idiots. It's a cheese tactic at best.

I'm not saying ganking shouldn't be done at all. There are some junglers / builds that literally fail if they do not make a strong impact through ganks early on. However, I am saying that ganking is not the end all be all priority for jungling. It's a important tool to utilize but this same tool can cut you more than it does the opponent if used incorrectly. The jungler has to be smart about when and how they gank and sometimes realize that ganking is just a bad idea.

Foxstep2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Definitely Bait,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1PHYNAtL,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-03-14T04:33:00.894+0000)

Junglers Job:

  1. Taking advantage of exp / gold from neutral mobs (This is what allows top to be a solo lane)
  2. Objective control (Securing Red + Blue Buff, Rift, Dragon, Baron)
  3. Counter Jungling (Stealing Buffs, Gold, and experience from the enemy jungler)
  4. Vision / Vision Denial (Area I need to work on still)
  5. Gank

Number 5 is literally only because they're always mia and in the best position to do so. There is no obligation to gank it's up to jungler if they gank or not. If it's not a good time to gank in their mind then they should be doing one of the other 4 things.

The main reason a jungle position exists is #1 and #2 they take advantage of / utilize gold, buffs, and experience from the neutral mobs that wouldn't otherwise be utilized as easily.

Not to mention there are many factors that contribute to ganking. Can the laner provide any lockdown to help out the gank? Is there wards? Where is the other jungler? Did they feed? Is there a high chance of it just being a net loss? Am I bot while the top laner is spamming assist pings while they're 0/2/0 and 30 cs behind at 8 minutes? Is my laner tilting and just going to be worthless even if I get them fed? (Hint if they're just sitting there complaining, pinging, cursing then they're already tilted. Odds are they're not going to be worth helping. Lanes not doing that crap are probably in a better mindset to succeed. Their head is going to be more in the game rather than stuck in blind haze of rage) Where are the wards? What summoners do they have?

All of these conditions contribute a lot. Bringing a lost lane back generally will give the laner a bounty and give the enemy even more of advantage when they throw the lead (If they're already losing it's likely to happen). Not to mention the risk of being counter ganked and giving that lane a bigger lead. It's not my fault if they're behind and the risk of going there isn't worth the reward if it's a successful gank. They lost the lane. It's their fault. I cannot be on beck and call to hold their hand the whole game there are other lanes, there are other things that I have to do that give a better chance of winning. Helping bad players is just going to waste time and lower the odds of winning it's that simple.

Oh, and another thing if the gank is successful I'm going to push the wave into the turret to deny them more cs. This is helping the laner. If the laner wants to rage or wants to afk they're being stupid plain and simple. I'll just report them after the match and move on. Oh, and by doing this they've just proven they are not worth helping.

Devourer junglers are a special case. You should literally play like your jungler is afk until they call for drag / rift or hit sated. A major win condition for devourer junglers is hitting sated and wasting time delays it. Devourer junglers shouldn't be ganking unless it's not that far out of the way and is completely free. Their main objective is hitting sated as soon as possible so they can take advantage of the giant power spike and win. If you're expecting ganks out of a devourer jungler you are playing wrong plain and simple.

A jungler constantly ganking and not doing anything else will eventually fall behind and become irrelevant. They won't be getting much experience or gold and if the enemy is actually smart the ganks will not give much if anything anyway. Against good players ganking 24/7 is just giving yourself a disadvantage via lost experience and gold from not clearing camps. The other jungler will be stronger and higher level as the game progresses unless your opponents are complete idiots. It's a cheese tactic at best.

I'm not saying ganking shouldn't be done at all. There are some junglers / builds that literally fail if they do not make a strong impact through ganks early on. However, I am saying that ganking is not the end all be all priority for jungling. It's a important tool to utilize but this same tool can cut you more than it does the opponent if used incorrectly. The jungler has to be smart about when and how they gank and sometimes realize that ganking is just a bad idea.

and suddenly you realize that nobody in lower elos does any of the things you stated. Junglers are bad, laners are bad, supporters are bad. Just focus on your own gameplay and remember that nothing else matters cause everyone's shit.

Definitely Bait5 votes

{quoted}

and suddenly you realize that nobody in lower elos does any of the things you stated. Junglers are bad, laners are bad, supporters are bad. Just focus on your own gameplay and remember that nothing else matters cause everyone's shit.

Your generic reply shows a clear lack of reading my post or understanding of what you read. Lower elo or higher elo makes no difference. It's talking about a junglers job as a role. The responsibilities and thinking required are the same whether your bronze 5 or Challenger.

Ignoring your blatant attempt to to boost your ego by calling everyone shit.. All your post does is agree with the original topic "Listening to your team as a jungler loses you games".

darkmatchwaldo9 votes

Nah you're dumb if you think the junglers only job is to support lanes who need it.

Does Riven need help vs Nasus early? No.

Am i gonna camp that lane and kill Nasus 19847198345713 times? Yes.

Now i'm fed and so is my top laner, we're gonna roam around the map snowballing the rest of our team too.

HighH11 votes

I never understood this. I have a fine time laning vs riven and I really only need to ward for ganks incoming double kills every now and then because of my tankiness

darkmatchwaldo1 votes

Well early game you have time for some kills before he becomes unkillable. It's a matter of keeping him out of lane as long as possible, he's gonna get super tanky eventually and it's best to snowball the game out of control before Nasus finishes 3 items.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

I slowly found out that helping out less skilled matchups doesn't take me anywhere. honestly am afk farming purposely now days because helping someone get 2-3 aces on their lane and getting their turret doesn't seem to be enough for them to be as productive in team fights.

Only Play Darius1 votes

So you're saying not to gank top lane.

Fine. But don't ask why I have no stacks Nasus

Kiyodai Akamichi4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1PHYNAtL,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-03-14T05:55:10.544+0000)

So you're saying not to gank top lane.

Fine. But don't ask why I have no stacks Nasus

Two things.

A.) Most Nasus players that are skilled at stacking their Q don't WANT ganks, because participating in a gank means losing potential CS. Nasus also has good last hitting under tower due to q, so he's not at much of a disadvantage if he's pushed in. Your jungle ganking should not determine if you have no stacks.

B.) Ganking a Nasus as a jungler can be a very painful experience. Not only because the Nasus is reluctant to join in the gank BECAUSE he's missing stacks, but also because most Nasus players get beside themselves at the idea of a jungler taxing their lane. Customarily, if your jungler ganks for you and you get a kill off of it, it's polite to let the jungler have a few of your minions to make up for the gold loss. Nasus plays generally HATE this, and will repeatedly ping you away. It has been bad enough that there have been times that, while holding toplane as a Jungler for a Nasus that had to back, I have been ping-spammed away from minions while the Nasus wasn't even a quarter of the way down the lane.

Only Play Darius1 votes

A.) I fully understand this. He's my favorite toplaner and I can take care of myself most matchups, I don't like getting babysat by jungler as taking the turret early makes it harder to stack safely. However, what I hate more is when I get a matchup like Renekton Darius Teemo who shoves me under my turret all game (yes I can stack fine there but I lose out on the CS I need for tank items), and my jungler doesn't make an effort to even show his face once in a while and scare them into playing more passively. It's even worse when I am getting constantly turret dived at 100% HP because the enemy jungler decides to focus top lane and get his toplaner ahead so they can roam and end before my stacks matter, while my jungler acts as if I don't exist then calls me out for feeding. Admittedly this is partly due to this season's joke turrets and dynamic queue, but the jungler could still help.

B.) I don't need a gank to be remotely successful, I just need you to show your face once in a while to make them think twice about shoving the lane 100%. Even then, Wither should be a jungler's wet dream during ganks and in my experiences it almost always forces flash or another big cooldown. I also don't care about minion tax after a good gank as the breathing room you bought me always leads to more Q stacks than you can tax away from me.

Kiyodai Akamichi1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1PHYNAtL,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2016-03-14T21:27:51.202+0000)

A.) I fully understand this. He's my favorite toplaner and I can take care of myself most matchups, I don't like getting babysat by jungler as taking the turret early makes it harder to stack safely. However, what I hate more is when I get a matchup like Renekton Darius Teemo who shoves me under my turret all game (yes I can stack fine there but I lose out on the CS I need for tank items), and my jungler doesn't make an effort to even show his face once in a while and scare them into playing more passively. It's even worse when I am getting constantly turret dived at 100% HP because the enemy jungler decides to focus top lane and get his toplaner ahead so they can roam and end before my stacks matter, while my jungler acts as if I don't exist then calls me out for feeding. Admittedly this is partly due to this season's joke turrets and dynamic queue, but the jungler could still help.

B.) I don't need a gank to be remotely successful, I just need you to show your face once in a while to make them think twice about shoving the lane 100%. Even then, Wither should be a jungler's wet dream during ganks and in my experiences it almost always forces flash or another big cooldown. I also don't care about minion tax after a good gank as the breathing room you bought me always leads to more Q stacks than you can tax away from me.

You might not need the gank to be remotely successful, but the jungler DOES. if the jungler only shows up and gets nothing for it, the jungler has not only wasted his time but kept himself from gaining additional experience and gold, potentially putting him behind another jungler. While exerting pressure is important, a jungler can only afford one or two non-functional ganks before they really start to fall behind. This is especially true for those three top-laners you mentioned. Teemo's mushrooms make ganks difficult, and trying to gank a teemo lane often involves being slowed and poisoned while the teemo runs away. Darius eats hard-engage champs for breakfast, and Renekton has a relatively easy way of avoiding ganks via slice/dice.

I'm not saying the jungler should NEVER gank a Nasus toplane--but playing that champion comes with the expected tradeoff that you will be weak early game, and strong late game. Even if a jungler camps a Nasus lane, you can only get the nasus so far ahead--because a Nasus scales with time and q stacks, rather than scaling strictly with items (since Nasus generally builds one offensive item, and then full tank). Even if I gank your lane and get the darius off your tower, it's not going to put you THAT far ahead, other than potentially buying you more time to Q-stack so you can be strong in the late game. And while that is valuable, there is a very real chance that the jungler's time is going to be better spent elsewhere--either trying to snowball a midlaner or an ADC. Toplane is an "island" for a reason. And yes, ganks for Nasus are generally pretty easy when you consider wither. But you need to consider the "profit margin" of a gank. You even said Nasus DOESN'T benefit from pushing down a turret early, whereas all other lanes do, more or less. Due to time, gold and experience deficits, I'm only going to gank a Nasus lane if the Darius is at 1/4 HP and STILL pushing like a madman, or if the Nasus is caught in a 2v1 and I'm in a position to help. Otherwise, it seems like Nasus is generally better off on his little island, because you have to consider the opportunity cost of the jungler's gold and exp when a gank does nothing but force the opponent to run back to their tower.

EmollientNut01 votes

I fixed that problem a long time ago, I don't listen to my self let alone any of them

Phenyxs1 votes

Excellent post. I think there is a confusing reality as to how a jg works and there objectives. A lot of Bad jg going on. No ganks, thanks only friend lane,never comes out of the jg. Bad choice of champ to if with. I can keep going on. There almost needs to be a training video. Oh, and don't remind them there is a map in the corner. I gave up on asking jg for help. When I do jg and it isn't as much this season a simple walk thru work early. If you can get a shot in ok. Jg and bttm lane will wreck a game.

Swaid1 votes

What do I want from my jungler? To secure dragon and have smite up for it and Baron, that's it, that's all I expect out of a jungler. Ganks and blue/red buff are bonuses, they're an option, not a necessity.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Yeah, let the jgler gank the Sona+Jinx lane who's going against AP ali and Naut and destroying them instead of Mid and Top, who are dealing w/ hard counters.

And bot lane still couldn't carry.

lolptwo1 votes

The best part is when smurfing in low elo, someone goes 0-3 to a Mundo top pre 10mins. Then Mundo is at full health and he's spam pinging "GANK TOP GANK TOP KILL THE MUNDO" lmao, 1: no he's fed, 2: you don't even tickle him 3:He will just ult and walk away while drag gets taken and bot lane gets tower dived.

THESuperStuntMan1 votes

While this is true for the most part, I don't think completely ignoring your team is a great idea.

Sometimes they are asking for help because the enemy flash is down and they are pushed up and easy to gank. Sure, sometimes they're 0-3 and at 20% health and spam pinging you to gank the full health enemy, and you can mute them then, but I don't think ignoring them from the get-go is optimal. As rare as it is, some people DO understand their role well enough to inform you that it is a good time to gank.

In the end though, your decision-making is the only one you can trust so go with your gut if you don't think you can help the person asking for ganks.

Mama Soraka1 votes

I had a game as jungle where the mid Jhin died twice early and asked for ganks and then pinged the crap out of me when I walked to his lane, cleared a pink, and then left. I told him "You've died 100% of our deaths you don't decide when or where I gank, okay?" and then bot lane chimed in and reminded him "You don't gank a losing lane if you can avoid it" and I felt loved as a jungler. Bot got extra ganks and then I took the extra gold I earned and put mid back on par with a few casual ganks that set his lane opponent back a bit and we ended up winning.

It was a great match with a competent team that learned and worked together. Man I wish I could say that more often.

MrryZ1 votes

Ahah this is so true unfortunately I always feel the need to try make everyone happy so ganking that 0/2 top never ends well

RIPxMidnight1 votes

If they're 0/2 already, even a successful gank probably won't make up for the fundamental flaw that lost them lane in the first place.

Play your game your way, brother

MrryZ1 votes

Yeah I was pointing out that flaw of me, I get pressured really easily into ganking even though I know it won't make an impact.

Slamurai Jack1 votes

Your team will constantly demand that you do things that are potentially good for them individually while being bad for the team as a whole. Learning to ignore those people is a very, very big part of jungling. This is especially true if you're playing a farm reliant jungler; wasting time (and potentially getting counterganked) trying to help whiners on your team is almost always a bad idea.

Partholonian1 votes

[{quoted}](name=L Psy Congroo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1PHYNAtL,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-03-14T02:59:00.436+0000)

In such situations, the best advice is to simply ignore all of them. Mute them if you have to.

Always remember that, while you should NEVER outright ignore information, there are times when you must decide not to act on it.

The last part is much better than the first part. You shouldn't do what your teammates say just because they say it, but you should think about whether they are right and there is a good opportunity to do something useful.

Most players sit in a lane and have sacks of gold and experience literally walk up to them to be killed. This gives them a seriously different perspective on the value of time than a jungler. So you can't just accept their agendas (especially if they conflict with each other). But you can use information they give you... if you haven't actually ignored them and denied yourself access to that information at all.

FantasySniper1 votes

This is pretty much true.

maximumspeed021 votes

[deleted]

L Psy Kongroo1 votes

{quoted}

When all the opposing/downvoted posts be from bronze/unranked players...

http://cf.chucklesnetwork.agj.co/items/6/9/1/3/coincidence-i-think-not.jpg

I'm unranked myself though lol. Just goes to show that unranked =/= bronze!

Leblancster1 votes

Thanks for the information from a bronzie ARAM playing noob. No wonder so many people blame the jungler, they probably played with you on their team. GG.

L Psy Kongroo3 votes

{quoted}

Thanks for the information from a bronzie ARAM playing noob. No wonder so many people blame the jungler, they probably played with you on their team. GG.

It really is a shame to hear that that's your opinion. If you ever have any actual counter-arguments to what I've said, I'm all ears. Until then, don't be surprised when people listen to my sound advice over your troll posts.

And if you insist on pulling rank, you yourself aren't even level 30 yet. So it's logically laughable to see you trying to insult me for not being ranked.

Supreme Senpai691 votes

Just because he doesn't have the cred to say this doesn't make it any less true. Personally I'd never waste the time to even look that stuff up.

TheDevice1 votes

Looking at the map takes priority over chat box....

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