"X's counter is hard CC"

AhmCha··5 votes·1,006 views

I see this a lot when looking at threads that talk about typically hated champions in League (Yas, Zed, Riven, LeBlanc etc.), but um....sans an ulting Olaf, isn't everyone's counter "hard CC"? Stunning a champion stops them from doing what they're supposed to do 100% of the time so of course doing that is the optimal away to counter a champion, but that doesn't mean it's their only counter. You can kite Darius, you can dodge Ezreal's skillshots, you can punish Draven when he goes to get his axes, etc.

So when people say "X's counter is hard CC", doesn't that translate to, "I can't think of anything that can actually counterplay X"?

I'm not necessarily saying that there is nothing that can counterplay X but if that's your only answer to "X is broken", maybe you aren't necessarily qualified to talk about X?

EDIT: I realize I forgot to take Tenacity into account which takes away from what I'm saying a little bit. Basically this post was targeted at the fact that I personally don't think "hard CC" is a substitute for counterplay.

9 Comments

EndlessSorcerer5 votes

CC doesn't affect every champion equally.

Some examples would be Mundo and Irelia who don't really care if you CC them due to their innate CC-reduction, tanks who want to absorb CC for their team, siege mages who are often too far away to be CCed, etc.

Generally, champions who CC "counters" are mobile, short-ranged and/or squishy (i.e. Katarina, Master Yi, Zed, etc) and will die the instant they are locked down.

Every champion in the game has other forms of counterplay, but CC is a good fall-back when the players trying to deal with them are ignorant or unskilled enough that they can't actually implement alternative forms of counterplay (or they are far enough behind that they will no longer work).

For example, telling people that the counterplay to Pantheon is to play safe in lane and not feed him early (so that he falls off a cliff later in the game) doesn't really help if they:

  • Don't know how to play safely against him and feed him anyways
  • Have already fed the Pantheon 10 kills by 15 minutes into the game
Mecha MaIphite3 votes

Well I can CC their Vayne and then we can blow her up instantly, or I can waste my CC on Gragas and have him shrug it off and continue doing whatever he was doing a few seconds ago.

Some champions (usually squishies) are hurt more by hard CC than others.

Fucking Shit1 votes

Every Single Champion has some form of counterplay that does not involve just using Hard cc. Not trying to brag or seem like a douche but im in diamond so if you wanna bounce some champs off me i can let you know what it is.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fucking Shit,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1MlgG0EJ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-08-21T21:33:27.811+0000)

Every Single Champion has some form of counterplay that does not involve just using Hard cc. Not trying to brag or seem like a douche but im in diamond so if you wanna bounce some champs off me i can let you know what it is.

Master Yi.

Literally have no idea what to do against the guy when he's ahead at all (or it's just mid-late game) outside of CC him and blow him up before he can react. Which I mean, it's pretty straightforward to beat, but still CC seems to be his only real counter (also displacement to interrupt his meditate).

EndlessSorcerer1 votes

Generally, the best counter to Master Yi is to take advantage of his weak ganking (since he lacks hard-CC and has relatively low burst damage early-game) to snowball your own lanes, take early towers and put his team far enough behind that he can't catch up.

This does not work if your team feeds him early kills, your jungler fails every gank and/or waste time, or your team can't take the advantage they've been given and use it to end the game.

If this fails, then you have to deal with a farmed/fed Master Yi and CC becomes your best method of dealing with him.

colesy1 votes

if you don't draft much cc in your comp you honestly just deserve to lose to a yi.

if it's just a case of him getting ahead, then yeah you need to like 2v1 or 3v1 him.

Fucking Shit1 votes

Ok this one is easy. Yi has terrible ganks pre-6 so, for example at my elo, the second yi is picked the other team will instantly pick an early game oriented pressure machine to counter the fact that yi needs time to scale. This champs are Lee Sin, Elise, Udyr (Not so much anymore), Hecarim, etc. That will most of the time make him useless.

If that doesn't work and he gets fed go watch some streams of high elo players against a fed yi and watch how they play it as a carry. People at lower elos have the first instinct to run the second they see yi or the second yi goes into them and forget yi is just as squishy as you are (assuming you are playing a carry). If you watch high elo players they will wait for him to alpha strike and then dump all of their damage on him the second he comes out of it instead of running because they trust their team to realize hes mispositioned or that hes squishy and focus him as well and they rely on their team to give shields, ms buffs, etc.

That 2nd one only really applies to high elo because in low elo you cant rely on your team for shit so i would do the first thing i said. Applying tons of pressure early (pre level 10) is the way to make sure yi doesnt make a big entrance into the game.

Eedat1 votes

Theres a difference between CCing different types of champions.

For example, high mobility squishy assassins are more vulnerable to hard CC. They ususally require jumping into an entire enemy team to burst then quickly retreating. If they get stuck (with hard CC) before they can retreat, they usually instantly die.

Champions like Zed Leblanc MasterYi LeeSin (full AD) Talon Katarina are good examples of this. If you can catch them while theyre in the middle of your team, they get blown up.

CCing a Alistar DrMundo Gnar etc is effective, but not early as effective because they usually can survive the duration or have some sort of built in tenacity.

This is also why different type of CC are valued more than others. For example, it is much easier and quicker for Annie to drop Tibbers on MasterYi's face than it is for Ekko to anticipate and time his Parallel Convergence

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

Go ahead, CC that full tank Zac. How'd that go?

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