Frozen Mallet Balance

Elite4Runner··4 votes·968 views

I think that it is difficult for someone to argue that the slow on Frozen Mallet is anything short of oppressive.

An immediate 40% slow on-hit for melee champions, or a 30% slow for ranged champions is rough when they already have the ability to stick to you.

Now, I completely understand that this is the whole purpose of the item, but I feel that it should really be a bit more forgiving at first, then reward the player for sticking to the target with sustained damage, opposed to landing a single attack.

I feel that this could be accomplished if the passive accumulated stacks on it's user from landing basic attacks against enemy champions.

My original idea would simply be to stack an additional 5% slow onto an enemy champion per stack applied to them, but as I understand it, slows do not stack.

My theory to work around this would be to apply a new slow on-hit based on the number of stacks accumulated on the player.

So for example, when the player initially attacks an enemy champion they will have 0 stacks, and will therefor apply a slow of 10% immediately.

Melee champions will accumulate 2 stacks per attack, and ranged champions will accumulate 1 stack which will increase the slow applied to the next enemy champion (can be the same champion) on-hit by 5% per stack. 20% for melee, 15% for ranged.

This will accumulate to a maximum of 6 stacks for melee champions and 4 stacks for ranged champions, to a maximum of 40% slow after 3 melee attacks, or a 30% slow after 4 ranged attacks, against an enemy champion for 1.5 seconds.

Stacks will last for up to 5 seconds without attacking an enemy champion before dropping off.

The thing that I don't really like about this is that it would mean that a player could attack champion A until they have reached full stacks, and then immediately attack champion B and apply the full slow. I ultimately find this to be acceptable since they would need to have been in combat already within the previous 5 seconds, but I would personally prefer if it could be applied on a per enemy champion basis.

24 Comments

Ahristocats2 votes

it's oppressive but right now it's garbage

i think they might just remove the item, no one will care about it since bruisers are balanced without frozen mallet built on them

Elite4Runner1 votes

So it should be removed instead of improved upon?

Ahristocats1 votes

i don't know, you tell me riot removed a lot of things instead of improving them it wouldn't surprise me that they remove frozen mallet

if you want to improve it then sure i don't have any problems, i play darius without frozen mallet anywayso i'm fine with both

Elite4Runner1 votes

Yeah, that is fair. I prefer to work on the idea of improving something that already exists instead of removing them.

With that assumption, what would you say to this change?

Would it be an improvement, or do you think it would make much of a difference at all?

Ahristocats1 votes

it's a great idea, then you just need to fixe the stats and cost

woodvsmurph1 votes

frozen mallet is an essential item for gnar. thus i doubt they would remove it. also, bruiser on-hit aa junglers MasterYi Nocturne Shyvana XinZhao can make good use of it. It gives them survivability and chase potential that synergizies well with their kit. Yeah noc you can go full lethality and delete someone... and then probably just die. Or, you can go more tanky kill someone slowly, and survive unless they literally 5 man you when you jump in to start a fight. And if they do that, your team just cleans house because they blew all their burst to kill a drain-tank nocturne item 1401 item 3022 item 3153 item 3091 item 3110

Spârky1 votes

It is a very situational item and the only champ i know that almost 100% builds it is gnar and me personally i love the item i wish more champs could build it and be successful because the item just feels nice.

Zezockary1 votes

A lot of people build it in korea from what I have heard, might be old news though. Shyvana was building it a lot.

Spârky1 votes

Interesting i dont play shyvana im an adc/top main so this is just what i've seen its a good item for people who want to stick to someone and run them down but most people that want to do that have lots of hard cc so its only useful on gnar.

Elite4Runner1 votes

I've been obliterated by Shyvanas with this item. It seems pretty core on her right now, even here in NA.

With Burnout active, it is damn near impossible to outrun her.

Spârky1 votes

i could see that. If i play jg i love graves jg and frozen mallet is pretty fun on him as well. I feel like the item is meant for ranged "bruisers" who have no cc or no way of sticking onto someone. Which is why its perfect for gnar in his mini form i think its underrated on graves like i said but thats because my graves jg build is warrior into deaths dance/black cleaver then frozen mallet. I build a more hp graves than most. most people like the dueling graves with PD just my preference

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

[{quoted}](name=PG Sparky,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1LPbXtun,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-09T15:02:11.392+0000)

i could see that. If i play jg i love graves jg and frozen mallet is pretty fun on him as well. I feel like the item is meant for ranged "bruisers" who have no cc or no way of sticking onto someone. Which is why its perfect for gnar in his mini form i think its underrated on graves like i said but thats because my graves jg build is warrior into deaths dance/black cleaver then frozen mallet. I build a more hp graves than most. most people like the dueling graves with PD just my preference

Gnar's already got stick, FM just makes it atrocious to play against.

Hammermancer1 votes

Well the only two champs that i play that can take full advantage of it shouldn't be building it

Jayce Ezreal

Hammermancer1 votes

I'm going to start by saying that your pole have a bias, which is that this item is too powerful and nobody can say they dont agree with you on that point... you forgot the "I don't think it should be changed" vote

Next, you're basically proposing reverse phage, or a % incresing slow for each hit, if that were to happen you'd be highly encouraging a class that wants health and attack speed

so we look at that build and we realize that phantom dancer also syncs well with these items, then other items (Wit's end, mortal reminder, and death's dance) will also be there plus a choice of any of the boots

And now you have a new set of overpowered synchronization...

Enjoy

Elite4Runner1 votes

"I don't think it should be changed" =/= "It's fine as it is"????

You're right though, I actually didn't really want to include this or negative options (but still did) BECAUSE people are far more likely to dismiss any form of change because it isn't their idea or Riot's idea so it clearly would never work. Or they will simply troll for the same reason.

Reverse Phage is exactly what Frozen Mallet is, and there is nothing wrong with this encouraging health and attack speed. It is a fighter/tank item and should encourage players who trade.

Hammermancer1 votes

ok buddy, try getting multiple aas off on any of the melee champs that mallet is intended for

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

I say remove the passive, give it a bork style nuke/slow, and up the stats a bit. With bork's active being removed, there's little overlap. It'd basically be a more offensive Randuin's, which I like.

Mainly I get the item for the health tbh :P

Variks the Loyal1 votes

{quoted}

I say remove the passive, give it a bork style nuke/slow, and up the stats a bit. With bork's active being removed, there's little overlap. It'd basically be a more offensive Randuin's, which I like.

This would be my solution.

Give it an active where you throw the mallet at the target (Or in a line skillshot), and it slows the first enemy struck.

sobi9991 votes

Gnar and teemo really need this item and are under performing anyways. Only person who can abuse it is yasuo but i don't see him making much use of it anyways because he has good enough mobility to stick to enemy and usually doesn't take long to kill.

woodvsmurph1 votes

The thing is... frozen mallet lost a decent chunk of damage recently and got an hp buff in return. Few champs build this into their kit -- used to just be gnar, then people started adding it to aa bruisers in top and jungle to stick to adc's and midlaners. While I agree (i've been on all sides of this item) that it can be oppressive if you are a squishy (or 0 damage tank) getting run down by a fed enemy bruiser 1v1, I believe this is not a flaw of the item at all. There are just as many times where you can be that bruiser needing to dive the enemy backline in a teamfight, but you get peeled either because you don't have frozen mallet or in spite of having it due to chained enemy cc. If the passive were stacking rather than 40% to start with, you would literally have about a 0% chance to run down the enemy adc or mid if their team peels decently and they have any intelligence about kiting. Also, I believe most scenarios apart from teamfights would not let the person slowed by frozen mallet escape even if the slow ramped up (rumble e actually stacks fyi - side note) rather than applying 40% slow to begin with. Yeah there are those 1 or 2 exceptions, but in 90% of cases I don't think a ramping slow would make a difference.

Tundra Hunter1 votes

You did not remind in your post that the slow last 1.5 second, which is quite short for a slow, hence if you need to perma slow you need to stick.

So there is counter to the item (peel for example if you try to dive and CC a carry)

I think it is fine as it is

Elite4Runner1 votes

... yeah, I did

This will accumulate to a maximum of 6 stacks for melee champions and 4 stacks for ranged champions, to a maximum of 40% slow after 3 melee attacks, or a 30% slow after 4 ranged attacks, against an enemy champion for 1.5 seconds.

DaNinad1 votes

But Gnar needs it too ;-;

Elite4Runner1 votes

Gnar could still get it.

Nothing about this change would prevent him from getting it.

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