Boards›Gameplay

My problem with the support class

Ralanr··72 votes·4,302 views

So I had a thought and felt it would be better to express it in a thread. I'm sure this thought has come up several times before however.

I feel supports aren't really supports. They feel more like guardians for the ADC. Everything the support offers seems to benefit the ADC more than anyone else on their team. Shields, AS, healing, all benefit the guy who has a low health pool and heavily relies on basic stats and kiting to function (course I'm biased here). These things could be beneficial to other roles, but they don't need them because they need to be somewhat self-sufficient. Fighters and tanks have healing or defensive steroids of their own, mages don't bring out enough DPS and are usually much more ranged in a fight so they don't need the constant protection.

When I play support, 90% of my thought process in a teamfight seems to be "keep the ADC alive" because I know that will win us the fight more or less. No other class is better suited for my buffs and peel, and therefore the ADC takes priority. It's weird because if a team actually helped a heavily stacked Nasus reach his targets, then he'd be very useful.

IDK, I think that supports need to be more team helpful then ADC sitters.

112 Comments

o brigid o61 votes

A good support already knows to prioritize the carry in team fights... and that's not always your bottom marksman.

If I have a 9/1 Nasus obliterating enemies left and right as long as he can get to them in the same game as an adc that isn't making an impact, you can bet your ass that I'll be focusing on helping Nasus carry the team to victory.

A good support isn't an adc-sitter. You just start out that way at level 1. The rest is up to you.

Support and jungle are (imo) the most impactful roles because it's primarily up to them to have the best understanding of the overall match and make the kind of choices other players don't have to make. Who do you get ahead? Where do you set up the big plays? etc etc

It's not a fault in the class design. This is just another choice you have to make.

KlydeFrog5 votes

Support don't do a whole lot hence why it's autofill and why it's always the least desired role by a long shot

o brigid o37 votes

No, it's the least understood role. Support is actually a super versatile carry role for people who know what they're doing.

Supports are constantly keeping track of vision, enemy jgl rotations, how each laner is doing, when they should/shouldn't roam, when the best time for drag/rift herald are doing, making sure they get their adc fed early/establish a safe farming lane for them etc etc. And if a support isn't doing all that, then they aren't doing it right.

I've been playing support for years and it's mainly for two reasons:

    1. If I'm not doing it, it's probably being done wrong
    1. I get bored in other roles bc the only other role that has as big of an impact on a game is jungle
KlydeFrog3 votes

It's the easiest role because you don't do a whole lot.

Sp33d Zer026 votes

Maybe you should play support then. You could easily climb out of silver with it.

Joking aside, have you ever actually WATCHED high tier support play? The micro you need to do is insane. A good support is usually actually UNDERLEVELED because they spend so much time doing the jobs that don't get recognized.

KlydeFrog2 votes

Umm I pick fill and pretty much only get supp because no one wants to play it shocking . Neither do I so I just play skarner supp because it works and I can tolerate it

Sp33d Zer013 votes

You're rocking a 38% win rate on support. If it's a role where you don't do a whole lot, how is it that you manage to make your team lose?

Votable Jester6 votes

Isn't the support's job more macro than micro generally? Not saying it's easy, just in a different section.

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding macro vs micro here.

Sp33d Zer04 votes

Ehhh that depends. With all of the active items you should be using, plus your warding, sweeping, all of that: I tend to quantify that as more micro than macro. Macro is just general map and game knowledge imo.

I kind of think of macro as rotating for objectives, forcing team fights, setting up pushing waves - micro is more like individual ability usage, where and when you ward, dodging abilities, etc.

Votable Jester4 votes

I just see warding as much more macro seeing as how it's all about map control.

Sp33d Zer02 votes

I think the action of USING and defending map control is macro; but the wards themselves, the vision you can get by placing it perfectly, the timing of being able to slip away in lane to plant on in a great spot: all of that just screams micro to me.

As a better clarification, I use two different ideas on the two.

Your macro play is what you do as a team. Moving as a unit to place wards I would consider macro as it involves a concentrated team effort. A solid split push plan is macro in a 1/3/1 with baron. HOWEVER, your respective 1v1s in the side lanes, and your individual defensive wards you use for protection are micro as it is relevant to you as an individual to use the tools you have most effectively.

You can kind of think about it in the sense of micro is your ability to do a play that solo carries, and macro is what you use to get your team to win.

Tibold2 votes

{quoted}

It's the easiest role because you don't do a whole lot.

Wrong. If you find it easy, you're doing it wrong.

Unless you're playing some passive stuff like Janna or Lulu. If so, I can fully agree with you.

KlydeFrog2 votes

Umm no, alistar skarner supp are who I play . People find it boring because you don't cs and u ping to engage it's not hard ......if you find it hard your doing it wrong

karolmo2 votes

{quoted}

Umm no, alistar skarner supp are who I play . People find it boring because you don't cs and u ping to engage it's not hard ......if you find it hard your doing it wrong

lmao ur playing skarner support now we get why u have 38% win ratio as support

KlydeFrog1 votes

to bad it is just counting the games as sona sooooo what eves

karolmo1 votes

{quoted}

to bad it is just counting the games as sona sooooo what eves

i'm counting all your games as support ur below 40% win rate ur a trash support

ChaddyFantome2 votes

{quoted}

    1. If I'm not doing it, it's probably being done wrong
    1. I get bored in other roles bc the only other role that has as big of an impact on a game is jungle

Couldn't have said it better myself.

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

A good support already knows to prioritize the carry in team fights... and that's not always your bottom marksman.

If I have a 9/1 Nasus obliterating enemies left and right as long as he can get to them in the same game as an adc that isn't making an impact, you can bet your ass that I'll be focusing on helping Nasus carry the team to victory.

A good support isn't an adc-sitter. You just start out that way at level 1. The rest is up to you.

Support and jungle are (imo) the most impactful roles because it's primarily up to them to have the best understanding of the overall match and make the kind of choices other players don't have to make. Who do you get ahead? Where do you set up the big plays? etc etc

It's not a fault in the class design. This is just another choice you have to make.

yeah its not ALWAYS the ADC... but how often is it not.. once out of every 5 games? 10 games?

adc's are way too strong at the moment. well AD in general is, but adc are the worst of it...

Sp33d Zer04 votes

The better you are as a support, the more likely your adc will snowball and be your teams carry. This is purely because if you are a really good support, you can just spoon feed them until they are crazy.

A bad support will likely hinder their adc & because they don't know the actual role, will just stick to their adc who cannot carry that game.

Spoofghoul4 votes

Entirely true

But many kits and sup itemization is catered towards sitting the adc which is a bit of a shame

Jinx Hunter2 votes

{quoted}

A good support already knows to prioritize the carry in team fights... and that's not always your bottom marksman.

If I have a 9/1 Nasus obliterating enemies left and right as long as he can get to them in the same game as an adc that isn't making an impact, you can bet your ass that I'll be focusing on helping Nasus carry the team to victory.

A good support isn't an adc-sitter. You just start out that way at level 1. The rest is up to you.

Support and jungle are (imo) the most impactful roles because it's primarily up to them to have the best understanding of the overall match and make the kind of choices other players don't have to make. Who do you get ahead? Where do you set up the big plays? etc etc

It's not a fault in the class design. This is just another choice you have to make.

I will say when I play Xin, it makes me so damn hard when I get the shields and heals and the knights Vow when I am snowballing and the marksmen bitches about it while they get carried [draven-pose]

Romans VI XXIII1 votes

It's not a fault in the class design.

Except most support abilities that buff a champion stat wise mostly have something to do with Auto Attacking, whether its an On-hit an AS steriod or increased AD. The only actually Stat buff that is for any one other than ADCs that I can think of off the top of my head is the new Nunu W.

Ale non è male2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arndt E Z,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1Ea475p7,comment-id=00030004,timestamp=2018-01-29T02:08:32.290+0000)

Except most support abilities that buff a champion stat wise mostly have something to do with Auto Attacking, whether its an On-hit an AS steriod or increased AD. The only actually Stat buff that is for any one other than ADCs that I can think of off the top of my head is the new Nunu W.

Every damage dealer, including mages, need to weave AAs in their spell rotation to get the maximum output of damage possible without having "dead" times when they are not doing damage while waiting for spells CDs

Support AA buff work help everyone, really

Romans VI XXIII1 votes

OMG 2 or 3 AAs in a rotation! The point is that Supports FAVOR ADCs over any other role

Ale non è male1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arndt E Z,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1Ea475p7,comment-id=0003000400000000,timestamp=2018-01-29T19:54:59.216+0000)

OMG 2 or 3 AAs in a rotation! The point is that Supports FAVOR ADCs over any other role

More than 2 or 3 if you are good Supports favor all classes, and they do in different ways depending on the type of support played... and really there are A LOT of different champs played as support. Of course they are balanced ALSO for laning phase, which means that they have to keep in mind what is their interactions with ADCs... but the class or especially the support players do not favor ADC specifically

On a side note, there are very few champs that have magic pen in their kit, and some of those are pretty obnoxious (Kayle/Kog goes from trash to broken in an heartbeat), and a support with some healthy MR shredding in his kit could be an interesting design option to explore (maybe in the Morgana/Kayle rework, maybe in a new champion kit), as giving free AP is likely unhealthy when you think that mages power are ususally gathed by itemization for AP/mana and as seen with Nunu, it would probably mean giving them a free extra item early one in the game (which is extremnely broken and lead to snowball rework)

Romans VI XXIII1 votes

Idk how you can come to that conclusion that supports do not favor ADCs. Like I've said before most buffs/steroids from supports enhance Auto Attacks. And who uses AAs the most? That be ADCs Yes APs can weave an AA here or there but the increased damage they get from the buffs is near negligible compared to what an ADC gets from it.

Lulu's passive for example is an on-hit affect, making it sync well with AS, which ADCs are main users of AS.

Janna shield gives increased damage, meaning the faster you attack the more u deal before the shield pops, again this heavily favors AS or ADCs.

The same can be said with just about any support that has some sort of buff they give to their target.

Ale non è male1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arndt E Z,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1Ea475p7,comment-id=000300040000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-31T14:57:26.701+0000)

Idk how you can come to that conclusion that supports do not favor ADCs. Like I've said before most buffs/steroids from supports enhance Auto Attacks. And who uses AAs the most? That be ADCs Yes APs can weave an AA here or there but the increased damage they get from the buffs is near negligible compared to what an ADC gets from it.

Lulu's passive for example is an on-hit affect, making it sync well with AS, which ADCs are main users of AS.

Janna shield gives increased damage, meaning the faster you attack the more u deal before the shield pops, again this heavily favors AS or ADCs.

The same can be said with just about any support that has some sort of buff they give to their target.

There are a lot of fighters bruisers and tanks that do damage mainly through AAs damage too. AD Assassins depends basically on how good target survaivability is Mages and in lesser measure AP assassins are the classes that benefit the least, THAT would be the correct sentence, but "supports favor ADCs" is just not true at all

Romans VI XXIII1 votes

ADC = Attack Damage Carry. This includes champions like yas/yi/aatrox/ect.

My statement is very true, as there are not "a lot" of tanks/bruiser that are heavily AA dependent, it's actually the complete opposite, they r in general heavily ability dependent.

Ale non è male1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arndt E Z,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1Ea475p7,comment-id=00030004000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-31T20:22:00.884+0000)

ADC = Attack Damage Carry. This includes champions like yas/yi/aatrox/ect.

My statement is very true, as there are not "a lot" of tanks/bruiser that are heavily AA dependent, it's actually the complete opposite, they r in general heavily ability dependent.

Nope. In the common slang used by the majority of the players ADCs are the equivalent to marksmen class You can't arbitrarily use a common used term without clarify your use of that term in first measure (a thing you didn't do at the start), and then arbitrarily move goalposts by changing terminology later

Your statement is untrue

Romans VI XXIII1 votes

LOL please enlightened ,me on the "ALOT" of tanks/bruisers that are AA dependent?????

Ale non è male1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arndt E Z,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1Ea475p7,comment-id=0003000400000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-31T22:44:11.821+0000)

LOL please enlightened ,me on the "ALOT" of tanks/bruisers that are AA dependent?????

Even not counting the one you arbitrarily wanted to exclude there are Shen, Warwick, Xin Zhao, Kled, Jax, Irelia, Trundle, Camille, Udyr, ecc... do I have to list ALL of them? I mean, I don't have all the day

Romans VI XXIII1 votes

none of those r tanks, except shen, those are ALL fighters/duelists. Still waiting

Ale non è male1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arndt E Z,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1Ea475p7,comment-id=000300040000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-01T01:51:55.711+0000)

none of those r tanks, except shen, those are ALL fighters/duelists. Still waiting

hello, then what you'd consider bruisers which i clearly mentioned in my previous posts? Moving goalposts, huh?

(and again, I didn't mentioned all of them, like at all on purpose, think about I didn't even mentioned for example Olaf or Volibear for god's sake)

Glory to God2 votes

On the other hand, it's painfully obvious that supports are designed to be primarily focused on protecting the marksman. Some examples are Lulu losing her AP buff on W and having an AS steroid on it instead, Janna giving AD only etc. Not only that but many support items are there to help you buff your ADC more: item 3504 , item 3050 (at least Zeke's used to give 20% bonus AP pre-rework). I hope that while they're investigating marksman-less teamcomps, they're looking into making supports and support items more diverse.

FullmuteAll play14 votes

I absolutely agree. And it is fun how adc feel like supports belong to them, not to the team. Especially when it comes to roaming.

AirKingNeo11 votes

Supports can help other classes just fine. The issue is ADC is so strong you ask, "Why shouldn't I protect our strongest?"

TeCoolMage6 votes

Because protection is rarely a single target thing. When you peel, tornado-ing the Lee as Janna means you keep him off both the ADC and the mid laner.

Meanwhile you still shield the ADC because it gives AD, unless someone else is literally one hit from dying and the ADC isn't attacking anyone

AuraCreed1 votes

Even if the ADC was attacking someone I'd still shield the guy one hit from death.

ChaddyFantome3 votes

{quoted}

Supports can help other classes just fine. The issue is ADC is so strong you ask, "Why shouldn't I protect our strongest?"

Exactly. This person gets it. The problem is that ADC's decide games, so why use your shit on anyone else?

chipndip110 votes

The role is defined by marksmen because the role goes bot lane with marksmen. If they diversify who goes bot, they can diversify what supports do.

AuraCreed1 votes

If they built a support that was tailored specifically towards bruisers and melee champions - unless if they were broken or they geared another melee towards botlane - nobody would pick that support unless if their abilities were also extremely beneficial to anybody else.

If not picked botside it would encourage duo toplane and safer ranged picks bot, or picks that can tolerate a duo lane.

Rabblerouser9 votes

I agree, but shields and heals aren't really solely for the ADCs. AS for sure!

So far as helping a stacked Nasuses frontliners get to their targets? Hmmm... that sounds like an MS buff or CC issue.

Janna Passive(?) and W slow Lulu W speedup then ult them once they're in knockup danger zone (but let's just get more people whining about how versatile Lulu is ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ) Taric Stuns. AND HONESTLY he does this already! After laning, he tends transition toward leaving his Bastion (W link) on frontliners/divers so he can get get some great stuns off (the frontliners gonna be in the action anyways, so Taric can help them survive longer with a Bastioned stun and the passive armor from Bastion. AND REMEMBER THAT TARIC'S HEAL IS AN AOE! So if Taric's moving around trying to give his team that sweet heal, stay within about 2-3 Teemo's distance of him (the AOE range is indicated every time he heals) to sustain. The only ability of his that only affects one person other than him is his W (the link). Blitzcrank is fairly decent with target access. ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° Same with Thresh with Q and Ult Rakan simply existing can be helpful but he needs to be in slapping distance of them in the first place, so maybe work around some bush strats or something? Sona has... mild speedups and and ult but it's low range given (or on the lower end of mid-range but I'm taking its travel time into account).

I'm not trying to make your argument invalid. Just trying to find ways around the problem! I crossed out Nasus because... Nasus DOES have Wither for target access.

EDIT: ##I FORGOT ABOUT THE FISH! Nami speeds everyone up with her abilities. Champs can even walk through her Q and get a movespeed bonus, I think. QWER all give MS for a small amount of time on top of Q and R's obvious CC potential.

AuraCreed1 votes

Nami Yeah your right about the Nami Q - you hit your allies with it and it gives the same movement speed. R gives additional movement speed beyond the passive, if I remember correctly.

Sona 's ult range doesnt necessarily matter when it's hard to predict and happens the moment you press the button, practically.

Rakan It's very important to know when you can flash W in, but being able to aggressive flash is also important on a lot of supports (EVEN Sona if you have ult up but thats highly situational)

Athenes Lulu6 votes

make supports work with fighters and mages again

AirKingNeo2 votes

They already do.

StarGuardianWeeb4 votes

thats why they need to rename the role. "Support" is exactly what you described, you live and die by the ADC and its leagues most glaring flaw (now that most others like runes, rewards, and most champs being fixed/updated) Idk the solution and im not gonna pretend that I would understand how to even find one, but literally anytime i ask "whats the best support?" the answer is always a cc locker or a heal slut depending on which items are better at the time.

Lios Ashenblade13 votes

Stop heal slut shaming me item 3070 Sona Janna item 3070

rtbf2216514127 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lios Ashenblade,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1Ea475p7,comment-id=00110000,timestamp=2018-01-29T00:53:40.226+0000)

Stop heal slut shaming me item 3070 Sona Janna item 3070

Soraka I'm exempt. :>

Bârd5 votes

That's because Soraka is a top laner.

Lady FrostIron1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lios Ashenblade,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1Ea475p7,comment-id=00110000,timestamp=2018-01-29T00:53:40.226+0000)

Stop heal slut shaming me item 3070 Sona Janna item 3070

you forgot oneNami

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Ralanr

A stupid idea: Nami's ult.
Gameplay219 comments
201
votes
I feel new Swain and Vlad have too similar designs.
Story, Art, & Sound155 comments
176
votes
Ever have a moment where you question your ability to play?
Gameplay190 comments
153
votes
Lunar Reveal crafting: I don't want to spend RP on components that grant random skins.
Story, Art, & Sound80 comments
150
votes
"We want Talon to use the terrain to his advantage"
Gameplay88 comments
139
votes
If you're going to complain that a champion is no longer unique because they are part of a new race.
Story, Art, & Sound181 comments
133
votes