All the QQ about Ryze and yet he boasts a completely normal 50% winrate in Plat+. He doesn't even score great late game. This is from over 15,000 Ryze games in Plat+ and it has been consistent ever since 5.10. His winrate never matched the whining, despite having a somewhat low pick-rate. if you look at near LCS level Diamond players, it goes a bit higher but nothing significant and it's nearly impossible to create a 50% winrate for players ranked that well.
RiotRiotRepertoir26 votesRyze isn't much of a winrate problem at the moment. He's just a crappy experience to play against, mainly due to an abusive skill order option. This was a slip up on my end in the 5.10 buffs, but I believe it can be addressed in a way that leaves the core high moments (rapid chain casting, NOT 100% uptime rooting) of the character intact while limiting some of the more abusive stuff. It's perfectly justifiable for players to be vocal about something that looks and feels unfair, regardless of whether or not they have numerical data to support their claims. You shouldn't need to know Ryze's win rate in order to tell me he feels dumb to play against.
Downfall1 votesI for one am glad that you are going to try and keep him in a great place yet remove the whole, "YOU SHALL NOT MOVE" thing he's got going on right now. One other thing that bothers me right now is his ability to have huge aoe burst damage, during his high damage potential moments it feels like groups of 2 - 3 team members can be 100-0 without even realizing what is happening. Some people have managed to combo so fast I cant even keep track of what spell ryze is casting or when they're hitting me due to how many are going around at once, which brings problems in trying to react to him. That's more of a visual issue though, that affects gameplay.
Hellioning3 votesGonna be saving this link for all of the people who say things like 'she's perfectly fine, not OP at all' in Riven/LeBlanc/Nid/whatever QQ threads.
kile1477 votesI would caution you to be careful, since what this post is really saying is "You have the right to complain, but if we (Riot) disagree with you then nothing will change."
Players can complain about them all they want, but Riot nerfs what Riot thinks is actually toxic. No matter how shitty Riven/LB/Nid feel to play against, unless we see nerfs their toxicity is probably intended behavior
LankPants5 votesIt's perfectly justifiable for players to be vocal about something that looks and feels unfair, regardless of whether or not they have numerical data to support their claims.
You just showed extreme understanding of the player base's unyielding hatred of Zed/LB/Ekko/Kat/most of the assassin class. And if it's a good reason to tone down Ryze then it's an equally good reason to hit any of these champs.
Malix Farwin8 votesYou just showed extreme understanding of the player base's unyielding hatred of Zed/LB/Ekko/Kat/most of the assassin class. And if it's a good reason to tone down Ryze then it's an equally good reason to hit any of these champs.
you are comparing near perma root to assassins?
kile1472 votesPlayers complaints about Ryze encouraged Riot to look into him, and they clearly decided that his abusive cc was an unintended side effect of buffs and that it violated their design principles. They aren't nerfing him because we the players complained, they are nerfing him because they think that is what's best which just so happens to be something we brought to their attention.
TotalJerk1 voteslt had nothing to do with player complaint. It was the fact that the pros figured out how broken he was and casters were just all-but saying "Ryze is broken" repeatedly every time he did some broken shit.
DrNova4 votesThose are assassins, and when an assassin does what they are supposed to do, people will complain
Beddlam2 votesRyze isn't much of a winrate problem at the moment. He's just a crappy experience to play against, mainly due to an abusive skill order option. This was a slip up on my end in the 5.10 buffs, but I believe it can be addressed in a way that leaves the core high moments (rapid chain casting, NOT 100% uptime rooting) of the character intact while limiting some of the more abusive stuff. It's perfectly justifiable for players to be vocal about something that looks and feels unfair, regardless of whether or not they have numerical data to support their claims. You shouldn't need to know Ryze's win rate in order to tell me he feels dumb to play against.
It's great to see you coming into the forums to talk about Ryze, and I am anxious to see what you have in store for him. Hopefully nothing that will disrupt his rotation during arcane mastery, and something that will still grant him some tools to help him keep opponents in range during the same.
I think the OP is not saying that people have no right to complain without stats, but is a response to the fact that we just saw Ryze get 100% pick/ban in EU and NA LCS while the casters in both would not stop talking about how OP Ryze is. Following that, there was a flood of posts not just saying that Ryze needs a nerf, or his root up-time is too high, but that he needs to be disabled or hotfixed. These reactions need to be tempered with the fact that he has not been disruptive in solo queue and while his kit may need some adjusting, his overall power level is not out of hand.
TotalJerk1 votesLCS permabans ALWAYS get nerfed.
Neo Cyrus1 votesYou are my new favourite Ritoer. Add me in-game and duo with me to the promised land. No refusing or backtalk allowed, kappa.
Tortferngatr1 votesHmm. What about a very short root, followed by a longer slow combined with a Cripple (prevents use of movement abilities [possibly making Kalista's Martial Cadence move less distance, and possibly negating MS increases])?
Hyrum Graff1 votesYou shouldn't need to know Ryze's win rate in order to tell me he feels dumb to play against.
Amen. Player experience matters.
Zinniä1 votesYou shouldn't base your design decisions on the winrate of a champion anyway. Ryze has a poor winrate because he's, just like kassadin was, long to setup and most of the players who currently play Ryze are LCS watchers who still not understand Ryze is op only when he triggers his passive. (He's like an AP nasus atm. And how many Ryze I've seen rushing in teamfight w/o any stack of passive up..) However the champ has been horrific since his rework (5.9) and only a few players understood it. I am pretty sure he has a way higher winrate in 5v5 ranked games. Actually, truth is that Ryze had been climbing the statistical ladder of champions just as fast as warwick used to do regarding to http://champion.gg/. So statistically, I'd risk to say his last rework/buff was indeed overpowered.
Imo, the CD of the W has to be improved, yes, but the main issue about ryze nowadays is that he can trigger his passive with just a rotation of his spells (after 6) + 1. Which makes him IMPOSSIBLE to trade on lane because when he triggers his passive hes got a shield + spell vamp (as you can consider he always has ult due to passive) + no CD/infinite spells, while only limit is mana. There's literally NO champion in toplane that has a combo longer than 5 Spells (Jayce). All of the other champs have CD limitations and can't trade indefinitely. Except Cassio but she's way more mana-dependent than Ryze.
Now just my thoughts... I think you could increase a bit the CD of the W, indeed. But mainly, you have two options :
Good luck with that case anyway!
Hard4Hamsters7 votesReally it's just how early he can root someone indefinitely. It's not fun to play against, because if you get within 600 range of him when he can proc his passive, you aren't moving for at least 6 seconds. Later in teamfights your team can work around it by CCing him or bursting him down as he can't root everyone, but in 1v1's, it can be abusive. It doesn't guarantee he will win the game, but it does make it extremely annoying and it lacks meaningful counterplay in the early game.
If you're talking about winrates compared to people whining about the champion, look at Janna. Nobody complains about her, but she boasts one of the highest winrates IN THE GAME right now at 54%. And why is that? Because people don't feel like they are getting cheated when playing against Janna (mostly because she is a support, and people just assume it's the enemy ADC that's wrecking their face, not Janna's shield). With Ryze, you can walk into his range and then you are trying to retaliate when he roots you but you just can't while you take his full combo to the face. Imagine if Riot released a champion with a 5 second stun; people would say that is completely broken. But Ryze can almost root you for 6 whole seconds, you have a few fractions of a second to flash away or use an ability to escape between the roots, but it isn't easy for you to fight back against Ryze if you are in that situation.
Now this isn't just QQ. I love Ryze. I want him to do well, but right now he just seems abusive. I feel like Ryze's early game shouldn't be so dominating based on how devastating his late game can be. As it stands, I feel like you need a ranged silence or stun against Ryze in lane to do well against someone who knows what they are doing. Either that or get camped by your jungler for the early phases of the game. I hope Ryze can reach a point where he can be strong but not a dominating force in lane.
Let me know what you think. Good luck out there. Peace.
Captain Aishi1 voteshe just needs an actual downtime to his passive, because right now if you jump on him the moment his passive wears out, you have 3 seconds before it's back up and he's shielded/permarooting/bursting on you once more, that makes it impossible to play a low mobility/low range champion against him
Hard4Hamsters4 votesI think it's important for him to have almost no downtime on his passive lategame though, as his passive is where all of his damage comes from. If his passive is down in the lategame, he is borderline useless. I've thought about one way this could work. If instead of gaining duration of his passive with ult level. He loses downtime of his passive with ult level to the point where at lvl 16 he would have no downtime other than the 5 abilities he has to use to stack it. So in the early game he would have 6 second passive and then 6 seconds when he could no longer stack his passive. He would lose 2 seconds on this downtime per ult level.
The way it's looking is that they are looking to increase the CD of his W at early levels and also lower the duration of the root at max level. I'm not sure how this will play out. They want Ryze to have the ability to Root a champion multiple times during his passive in the mid-late game, but they do not want Ryze to be able to do that at early levels. The problem I see is that people are starting to max W first anyway so if it keeps the same CD as live at max level, it won't do much. The reduction in duration might give champions an extra few steps but Ryze will have access to his Ultimate which gives him MS so good luck outrunning him.
I would have liked to have seen the Ryze buffs go another way. His passive duration was doubled at early levels which is huge, and I think Ryze is going to suffer for it in the long run. I would have rather seen smaller buffs in multiple other areas in a damage increase on his Q (which happened), slightly higher mana scaling on his abilities (not more than 1-2% on any of them), more armor either base or per level (this was cut in his rework probably because he gained a shield), and a slight change to his E to have a higher bounce range (300ish) but have less max targets (4 bounces) and slightly lower maximum damage (350-400 base damage). We'll see what happens though. Peace.
Ovion3 votesBut people saw Ryze 100-0 enemies in lcs so he must be OP right? /sarcasm
Sona Ping3 votesFacts on Statistics
Winrates say little to nothing about a champion's kit, their capabilities, or what it's like to play with or against them.
HorusEye1 votesAll the QQ about Ryze and yet he boasts a completely normal 50% winrate in Plat+. He doesn't even score great late game. This is from over 15,000 Ryze games in Plat+ and it has been consistent ever since 5.10. His winrate never matched the whining, despite having a somewhat low pick-rate. if you look at near LCS level Diamond players, it goes a bit higher but nothing significant and it's nearly impossible to create a 50% winrate for players ranked that well.
Shut up & get in the locker, nerd.
http://cyberbullyingwrt.weebly.com/uploads/1/4/6/4/14644256/1975045_orig.jpg?0
Beddlam1 votesWow, I was expecting nerfs, but the initial changes on the PBE seem to be a straight up gutting.
