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The maximum amount of flat armor pen you can have after lethality changes is 96.

Critkeeper··4 votes·10,317 views
The maximum amount of flat armor pen you can have after lethality changes is 96. * /r/leagueoflegends

http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/RYuvnjbT-lethality-info 0.4X + ((0.6X * Y)/18) = Flat Penetration Amount, where X is Lethality and Y is target champion level

http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-pbe-feedback/cz1v6b7l-runes-armor-pen-lethality?comment=0000 Runes that gave flat armor penetration are being changed to give lethality at a rate where they break even at level 9 (so greater marks give 1.83/mark and quints give 3.66/quint)

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2016/10/1018-pbe-update.html#balance7 Precision (Cunning T5) Changed to "Gain 1.7 Lethality " from "0.6 + 0.06 per level Armor Penetration".

Serrated Dirk Attack Damage increased to 25 from 20 [NEW] UNIQUE Passive: +15 Lethality [REMOVED] +10 Armor penetration [NEW] UNIQUE Passive: +20 Movement Speed out of Combat [REMOVED] UNIQUE Passive: After killing any unit, your next basic attack or single target spell deals 15 bonus damage.

Youmuu's Ghostblade - [PIC] Total cost decreased to 3000 from 3200 Recipe: [Caulfield's Warhammer + Serrated Dirk + 800 G] [Recipe Change] Combine cost lowered to 800 from 1000 [NEW] UNIQUE Passive: +20 Lethality (Formerly 20 armor pen) [NEW] UNIQUE Passive: +20 Movement Speed out of Combat UNIQUE Active: [REMOVED] No longer grants 40% attack speed

Duskblade of Draktharr - [PIC] Stats: AD lowered to 65 from 75 5% Movement speed removed. [NEW] UNIQUE Passive: +20 Lethality [NEW] UNIQUE Passive: +20 Movement Speed out of Combat [NEW] UNIQUE Passive - Nightstalker: After being unseen for at least 1 second, your next basic attack will deal 50 + (200% Lethality) true damage on-hit. [REMOVED] Unique Passive - Nightfall. [NEW] UNIQUE Passive - Blackout: Gain true sight for 8 seconds when spotted by an enemy ward (90 second cooldown).

[NEW] Edge of Night Total Cost: 3100 G Recipe: [Pickaxe + Serrated Dirk + Null-Magic Mantle + 675 G] Stats: +60 Attack Damage +35 Magic Resist UNIQUE Passive: +20 Lethality UNIQUE Passive: +20 Movement Speed our of Combat UNIQUE Active - Night's Veil: Channel for 1.5 seconds to grant a spell shield that blocks the next enemy ability. Lasts for 10 seconds. (30 second cooldown) (Can move while channeling)

1.7 * 5 + 1.83 * 9 + 3.66 * 3 + 20 + 20 + 20 = 95.5

Notice that technically you could add another 15 if you dedicated one of your item slots to a serrated dirk, but that isn't pragmatic.

9 Comments

Zero Skill Tank2 votes

"This is especially effective against target that don't buy armor" my ass

Critkeeper1 votes

{quoted}

"This is especially effective against target that don't buy armor" my ass

strictly speaking i suppose it is.

100 armor grants 50% physical damage reduction

200 armor grants 66% physical damage reduction

taking away 100 armor from someone who only has 100 effectively reduces their damage reduction from 50% to 0%, or in other words, it increases the damage they take by 100%.

taking away 100 armor from someone who has 200 effectively reduces their damage reduction from 66% to 50%, or in other words, it increases the damage they take by 36%.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

strictly speaking i suppose it is.

100 armor grants 50% physical damage reduction

200 armor grants 66% physical damage reduction

taking away 100 armor from someone who only has 100 effectively reduces their damage reduction from 50% to 0%, or in other words, it increases the damage they take by 100%.

taking away 100 armor from someone who has 200 effectively reduces their damage reduction from 66% to 50%, or in other words, it increases the damage they take by 36%.

the problem is how good flat armor pen becomes even against tanky targets with

item 3035 or item 3071

the issue im seing here is that lethality shouldnt be allowed to stack with % pen, and champions who have lethality shouldnt be able to apply cleaver stacks themselves. otherwise armor is going to be even worse than this season.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

As a player who likes to use squishy AD champions (Marksman and Skirmishers) from time to time, I am rather concerned about this.

Also, item 3147 :

The new passive's maximum damage with this is 241.

gamder1 votes

the big problem is not the duskblade ... it only start to get broken if u use it with kha'zix

Duke Anax1 votes

That is the same effect the last whisper items have at 212 armor.

If you add a Last Whisper item to that build, anyone under 160 armor, has no armor.

If there is a Black Cleaver as well, you'd need 210 armor to see any effect.

If that Black Cleaver is on an Urgot, that's up to 260.

So if you don't wanna build at least 400-500 armor, you might as well not build any and just get Health.

Critkeeper1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Duke Anax,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=16lM71p4,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-10-20T18:23:15.158+0000)

That is the same effect the last whisper items have at 212 armor.

If you add a Last Whisper item to that build, anyone under 160 armor, has no armor.

If there is a Black Cleaver as well, you'd need 210 armor to see any effect.

If that Black Cleaver is on an Urgot, that's up to 260.

So if you don't wanna build at least 400-500 armor, you might as well not build any and just get Health.

The order of application works like this:

  1. Armor reduction, flat
  2. Armor reduction, percentage
  3. Armor penetration, percentage
  4. Armor penetration, flat

To address your point that 96 flat armor penetration + last whisper renders anyone with less than 160 armor with no effective armor: that isn't quite correct. The last whisper line of items provides 45% penetration against bonus armor only, it "pretends" the enemy base armor doesn't exist when figuring how much armor to penetrate. So if you had 70 base armor and 0 bonus armor, it would provide 0 penetration. If you had 80 base armor and 400 bonus armor, it would provide 180 armor penetration.

So a person with about 80 base armor and 80 bonus armor would have 160 total armor. 45% of the 80 bonus armor is 36, and adding that to the 96 flat armor penetration yields 132. That leaves the person with 28 armor.

Notice that 30% armor reduction would take someone with 200 armor down to 160, but if 80 of that person's armor was base armor and 80 was bonus, the 45% bonus armor penetration of the last whisper line of items would only operate against the 80 bonus armor.

Contrast that with not having 30% armor reduction. In that case the person would have 80 base armor and 120 bonus armor, and the 45% bonus armor penetration would be directed against that 120 bonus armor.

In other words, last whisper is more efficient without black cleaver. Opposite to that, and making things more difficult to grasp, damage is more efficient the less effective armor the enemy has.

Duke Anax1 votes

Yeah I noticed the mistake shortly after posting, but you were faster then i could correct.

But to clarify, last whisper works on the armor value that's reduced by Black Cleaver?

so when we have 80+80, Black cleaver would remove 48 and Last whisper would 25?

Critkeeper1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Duke Anax,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=16lM71p4,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-10-20T18:44:31.481+0000)

Yeah I noticed the mistake shortly after posting, but you were faster then i could correct.

But to clarify, last whisper works on the armor value that's reduced by Black Cleaver?

so when we have 80+80, Black cleaver would remove 48 and Last whisper would 25?

Black cleaver is % armor reduction, thus it reduces total armor. If you had 80 base armor and 0 bonus armor, 25% armor reduction would leave you with 60 base armor. If you had 80 base armor and 400 bonus armor, 25% armor reduction would leave you with 80 base armor and 300 bonus armor.

Last whisper is % bonus armor penetration, thus it reduces bonus armor. If you had 80 base armor and 0 bonus armor, 50% bonus armor penetration would penetrate 0 of your armor. If you had 80 base armor and 400 bonus armor, 50% bonus armor penetration would penetrate 200 of your armor. If you had 80 base armor and 400 bonus armor, but 100 of your bonus armor was taken away by black cleaver, 50% bonus armor penetration would ignore half of your remaining bonus armor-- 150, ignoring less than it would without the presence of black cleaver.

However, the reduced efficiency of last whisper isn't enough to make it not worthwhile to stack last whisper and black cleaver versus a target with that much bonus armor.

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