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@Riot, Do you ever think that it's interesting that Xayah has Fizz's trickster...but it's her ult?

MrNuclearPumpkin··9 votes·1,017 views

Really think about that for a moment. Both Xayah and Fizz have pretty much the same move. They both make themselves untargetable and immune to everything for a few seconds, while doing damage. But Xayah's is her ultimate. Which has like a 1:50+ cooldown. Fizz is like 10 seconds.

This means that having a move that makes you untargetable while doing damage for a move that's MADE for outplaying your opponents is a pretty substantial ability and is incredibly crucial and is also disgustingly powerful. Could you imagine if Xayah could do that move every 10 seconds? That would be absolutely BROKEN..... Fizz

We all hate Trickster. It's stupid. There's no counterplay to it. There's nothing you can do about it. The only counterplay to it, is to kill Fizz before he can do it. It's made even more unfair when you combine it with Zhonya's. You can hop once, zhonya's while Fizz is on his trident, then hop to a safe spot.

Riot. I give you credit for trying so hard to make Fizz fair. But as long as Trickster remains in his kit. That will never. Ever. Ever happen.

The moment you get rid of Trickster. Is the moment when Fizz actually will become a fair champion.

28 Comments

Joxcab8 votes

lmao when garbage players are still shitposting about Fizz E

They're completely different champions with completely different play styles and completely different usages and reasons for their untargetability.

MrNuclearPumpkin3 votes

{quoted}

lmao when garbage players are still shitposting about Fizz E

They're completely different champions with completely different play styles and completely different usages and reasons for their untargetability.

I love how you're talking about garbage players when you yourself are Bronze 3 at 0 LP, but that's another story altogether.

I assume you're going to tell me that Fizz's trickster is actually fair?

Joxcab5 votes

It is perfectly fair. If you think anything about Fizz outside of tank Fizz or his high W bases which enabled it (which got large nerfs on PBE) is broken, you're bad. That's just fact.

Me being bad in certain areas doesn't make others any less so in another.

Learn how cooldowns and abilities work.

MrNuclearPumpkin1 votes

{quoted}

It is perfectly fair. If you think anything about Fizz outside of tank Fizz or his high W bases which enabled it (which got large nerfs on PBE) is broken, you're bad. That's just fact.

Me being bad in certain areas doesn't make others any less so in another.

Learn how cooldowns and abilities work.

Whatever floats your boat dude. If you want to believe that then by all means do so.

You simply can't call someone bad, when by default, you're in a ranking that by default is considered bad. (Hence why bronze players are literally the buttend of every joke)

You can call someone bad all you want, but the fact remains that... well, that's your opinion.

Joxcab2 votes

You do you honey. Whatever makes you feel better about losing games to champions you refuse to learn how to beat.

MrNuclearPumpkin1 votes

{quoted}

You do you honey. Whatever makes you feel better about losing games to champions you refuse to learn how to beat.

See and that's where your problem is. You immediately assume that I'm losing to Fizz. And keep trying to make last minute cutthroat comments in literally every comment you've made.

I have yet to play against a Fizz honestly. I'm going by what I've seen from what I've watched and from what I myself have done through playing him.

Slythion4 votes

they also are two completely different champions that require that ability for much different purposes to perform extremely different functions for a team while also designed to be laning in completely different situations

I'd be using the same logic you are right now if I thought Darius's E vs. Blitzcranks Q was comparable.

"Make Darius's E cost more mana because if Blitzcrank does something essentially the same and it costs half his mana bar, shouldn't it do the same for Darius?"

MrNuclearPumpkin2 votes

{quoted}

they also are two completely different champions that require that ability for much different purposes to perform extremely different functions for a team while also designed to be laning in completely different situations

I'd be using the same logic you are right now if I thought Darius's E vs. Blitzcranks Q was comparable.

"Make Darius's E cost more mana because if Blitzcrank does something essentially the same and it costs half his mana bar, shouldn't it do the same for Darius?"

Well that was just part of the post. The other part was actually just talking about Trickster as a whole and how it's a genuine problem with Fizz.

MrNuclearPumpkin2 votes

{quoted}

they also are two completely different champions that require that ability for much different purposes to perform extremely different functions for a team while also designed to be laning in completely different situations

I'd be using the same logic you are right now if I thought Darius's E vs. Blitzcranks Q was comparable.

"Make Darius's E cost more mana because if Blitzcrank does something essentially the same and it costs half his mana bar, shouldn't it do the same for Darius?"

My argument is that they are similar in the broad spectrum of them both being made untargetable. Outside of the other effects that you use, the fact still remains that they both have the same effect. But one is an ultimate and one isn't.

Edit: However with your counter argument being Darius and Blitz, both of those moves are basic abilites and not ults.

Dreampod1 votes

I think Fizz is a steaming pile of bullshit (of which Trickster is a big part of) but I actually have to disagree with the idea that they are equivalent abilities without taking into account the whole champion's kit. Fizz being melee means that he has to cross the engage distance of any enemies and have melee opponents get to hit him. Xayah on the other hand has her range and ability to kite which means she should rarely be in those high danger positions and if she is the opponents have significantly outplayed her or burnt important cooldowns to get there. Under that situation a 'Oh Shit' ability to get out of a bad situation is a lot more powerful than it is on the guy who constantly is putting himself in those bad situations.

Slythion2 votes

My argument is that they are similar in the broad spectrum of them both being made untargetable. Outside of the other effects that you use, the fact still remains that they both have the same effect. But one is an ultimate and one isn't.

yes, and my entire comment tackled that flawed train of thought by pointing out that just because they have the same effects doesn't mean they have the same use to these champions due to their overall kit, purpose, and situations that they find themselves are all different from each other. Why would you repeat the same flawed reasoning back to me?

Edit: However with your counter argument being Darius and Blitz, both of those moves are basic abilites and not ults.

and? You completely missed everything I said in my comment. You compared two abilities from two completely different champions and claimed it as reasoning to completely remove the ability from one of the champions. I took you're argument and did the same exact thing but making it less extreme and you think it's dumb? lol

My example: Darius vs. Blitz: two semi-similar abilities. two completely different levels of use for X champion, yet still claims that the abilities should be the same between both by raising the mana cost for Darius' E.

Your example: Fizz vs. Xayah: two semi-similar abilities. two completely different levels of use for X champion, yet claims to completely remove the ability because of it's semblance to the other's having a higher cost to use.

Do you see the similarities yet?

MrNuclearPumpkin1 votes

{quoted}

yes, and my entire comment tackled that flawed train of thought by pointing out that just because they have the same effects doesn't mean they have the same use to these champions due to their overall kit, purpose, and situations that they find themselves are all different from each other. Why would you repeat the same flawed reasoning back to me?

and? You completely missed everything I said in my comment. You compared two abilities from two completely different champions and claimed it as reasoning to completely remove the ability from one of the champions. I took you're argument and did the same exact thing but making it less extreme and you think it's dumb? lol

My example: Darius vs. Blitz: two semi-similar abilities. two completely different levels of use for X champion, yet still claims that the abilities should be the same between both by raising the mana cost for Darius' E.

Your example: Fizz vs. Xayah: two semi-similar abilities. two completely different levels of use for X champion, yet claims to completely remove the ability because of it's semblance to the other's having a higher cost to use.

Do you see the similarities yet?

Your argument is sound and I shall agree with you.

PermabannedGaren4 votes

Xayah is a ranged ADC who is safer than Fizz is by default. Fizz has to dive into enemy teams to do things, Xayah does not. Melee champions tend to have much stronger defensive abilities than ranged ones simply because they are melee.

Noctkazaku2 votes

One is an ult on a large cooldown and the other is normal ability with a much smaller cooldown than Xayah's Featherstorm. They aren't the same.

Opistach2 votes

"You can hop once, zhonya's while Fizz is on his trident, then hop to a safe spot." Played a couple Fizz games, I must be missing something because this never happens.

Genjab1 votes

I think you should play some games as Fizz and then some games as Xayah and then re-evaluate your post. I agree that Fizz's e is a bit too strong but I think nerfing the cooldown is good enough. Xayah's ultimate is fine in my opinion. I don't particularly like untargetable abilities but it's okay. It's not to difficult to dodge especially if you have summoner 4

MrNuclearPumpkin1 votes

{quoted}

I think you should play some games as Fizz and then some games as Xayah and then re-evaluate your post. I agree that Fizz's e is a bit too strong but I think nerfing the cooldown is good enough. Xayah's ultimate is fine in my opinion. I don't particularly like untargetable abilities but it's okay. It's not to difficult to dodge especially if you have summoner 4

I have played games on both Fizz and Xayah. I couldn't make a post without having some type of hands on experience with both.

Jmman1 votes

I somewhat agree the problem is the Cd. Once you get 40% CDR its only a 6 sec cd. Now you are immune for like 2 secs. That leaves a 4 sec window. FOUR SECONDS to land all your crap or he is going to dodge it.

20 sec CD or so. 40% cdr will be 12 secs. That would bring him in line. But right now its too mobile and there is no decision with using it because its up in 4 secs.

MrNuclearPumpkin1 votes

{quoted}

I somewhat agree the problem is the Cd. Once you get 40% CDR its only a 6 sec cd. Now you are immune for like 2 secs. That leaves a 4 sec window. FOUR SECONDS to land all your crap or he is going to dodge it.

20 sec CD or so. 40% cdr will be 12 secs. That would bring him in line. But right now its too mobile and there is no decision with using it because its up in 4 secs.

That is the problem. Xayah's move is an ultimate with different effects. But the fact remains that they are similar. And anyone who can't see that, probably doesn't WANT to see it.

MrNuclearPumpkin1 votes

{quoted}

That is the problem. Xayah's move is an ultimate with different effects, but the fact remains that they are similar. And anyone who can't see that, probably doesn't WANT to see it.

Jmman1 votes

Also some champs seem to get good damage, defense, and offensive all in one while other just get plain Jane do one thing. It kinda like 3 abilities or uses. That alone would make a champ better because they would have 6 ways or ability choices rather than 4. (this is another trait the stronger champs have in common.)

Jinzo Torrance1 votes

Talon old passive (Talon's auto do 10% more damage against targets who are stunned, suppressed, immobilized) was the same as old Corki's passive (Corki's auto do 10% bonus true damage) for the longest time and nobody ever said anything about it. Why? Different kits.

MrNuclearPumpkin1 votes

{quoted}

Talon old passive (Talon's auto do 10% more damage against targets who are stunned, suppressed, immobilized) was the same as old Corki's passive (Corki's auto do 10% bonus true damage) for the longest time and nobody ever said anything about it. Why? Different kits.

This is true. But this once again is a comparison of two passives of equal quality.

My argument once again is comparing a basic ability to an ultimate. Fizz's regular E on a 10 second cool down without 45% Cooldown. And Xayah ultimate on a 110 cooldown, without a 45% cooldown.

Hovering Hentai1 votes

I think Im one of the few people who don't mind fighting Fizz

Athenes Lulu1 votes

Comparing a designated, highly mobile assassin designed to jump around and dive to kill things with a backliner who is supposed to stay out of harm's way, who also has the potential to lock multiple things down.

I don't think that's a good example.

l Dárius l1 votes

dont u thinks its meme that xayah is ranged and has autoattacks that are reliable? lololol imagine

lets give fizz some shit e and replace his r with his current e, scalings and all. i am so sure that would be good.

EnterTheDark1 votes

Tell me when fizz can follow up his E immediately (or even at all) with a stun. That is why Xayah's ult is different and is more deserving of the longer CD, in addition to what other people said regarding her being generally safer as a ranged champ.

MrNuclearPumpkin1 votes

It is so easy to type one thing and watch everyone flip their lid.

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