at what point will be there too many champions to balance?

MunchCrunchLunch·Dec 6, 2016·17 votes·1,706 views

just a question. not trying to invoke anything but obviously riot as we go ahead releases less and less champions per year. will we reach a point where only 2 champs or so are released per year?

seems like a lot of balance issues are occupied by newely released champs. such as azir aurelion sol. taliyah. illaoi was hard to fix. mainly because of how many factors involved in the game.

will you reach a point where you start removing champions from the game? or maybe put full VGUS as priority over new champs?

28 Comments

SlythionDec 6, 201617 votes

to answer your title:

several seasons ago

VexingRavenDec 6, 20163 votes

{quoted}

to answer your title:

several seasons ago

Basically this. And not just because there are too many, but because Riot got bored/ran out of ideas and started stacking more mobility and more utility on everybody at no cost to damage or survivability.

AwoofDec 6, 20161 votes

Ziggs If only my basically identical skills had that interaction. Xerath's been bullying me lately and that would really have set me apart from him.

Taliyah smd

Not sure if relevant but felt fitting.

BellowsDec 6, 20165 votes

Good question, i havent a clue. Maybe they will turn the money and effort towards improveing the game at its current state rather than trying to bring out new stuff constantly.

MarshbouyDec 6, 20161 votes

The game would get horrendously stale if it didn't get switched up here and there.

ShaolinToiletDec 6, 20161 votes

Lots of people still play Cs go

DaxanaterDec 6, 20165 votes

now

Sona PingDec 6, 20163 votes

Now? Galio

AMYS GRAVEDec 6, 20163 votes

Actually the more champions there are the easier it becomes to deal with balance outliers. This is because when there are more champions there are more ways in game to deal with an overpowered champion without needing immediately take action on the part of the balance team. It doesn't deal with it by itself but it does put a cap on how strong something can be. Its why early seasons saw ridiculous win rates in comparison to now. An OP champion in season 7 has a 55% winrate, while in earlier seasons it would have been 60+%.

TurquoiseYoshiDec 6, 20162 votes

Let's be honest here, Riot would have had problems for years balancing just the original 40. I'm not sure if they would have fixed it all by now, especially if they're adding other game features around it. Just think about it for a second. Smash 64 had 12 characters, and that game is very unbalanced. Melee had 25 and its character balance is awful. I know those games were made before patching was a thing, but you can find character balance issues in pretty much every competitive multiplayer game since the beginning of time.

So no, I really don't think that adding new champions is hurting League's balance all that much. Especially, with all of these champs, you make the possibility of a counter meta, where every champ has a some kind of counter to prevent anything from becoming too strong, as well as the fact that adding new and unique champs keeps the game fresh and creates different and interesting playstyles, it's fair to keep adding champs at the current rate.

VexingRavenDec 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Let's be honest here, Riot would have had problems for years balancing just the original 40. I'm not sure if they would have fixed it all by now, especially if they're adding other game features around it. Just think about it for a second. Smash 64 had 12 characters, and that game is very unbalanced. Melee had 25 and its character balance is awful. I know those games were made before patching was a thing, but you can find character balance issues in pretty much every competitive multiplayer game since the beginning of time.

So no, I really don't think that adding new champions is hurting League's balance all that much. Especially, with all of these champs, you make the possibility of a counter meta, where every champ has a some kind of counter to prevent anything from becoming too strong, as well as the fact that adding new and unique champs keeps the game fresh and creates different and interesting playstyles, it's fair to keep adding champs at the current rate.

Smash isn't really a fair comparison because that doesn't get patches every 2 weeks.

LiofaDec 6, 20162 votes

For Riot? 2

DolasaurDec 6, 20161 votes

Riot said that they acknowledge that such a number exists, but that they're far from it. They also said they're not happy with just how slow champs have been coming out; I think they said they were targeting 6-7 for next year.

Silly NeekoDec 6, 20161 votes

Reworks etc are already taking more precidence over new champions, but each rework is like a new champion.....

And are you trying to say illaoi is balanced atm? Lol, because she really isnt at the moment.

MarshbouyDec 6, 20161 votes

Eventually they games gonna draw to a close. Pokemon can't endlessly create Pokemon, trying to "catch em all" now is a monumental task. MMOs can't just endlessly create raids before they all become similar the same will happen to league of legends, but i feel that by that point in time the game will have started to downward spiral.

Sans HamaDec 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Eventually they games gonna draw to a close. Pokemon can't endlessly create Pokemon, trying to "catch em all" now is a monumental task. MMOs can't just endlessly create raids before they all become similar the same will happen to league of legends, but i feel that by that point in time the game will have started to downward spiral.

But they can! With continued releases, gamemodes and new content the game will grow, there are some parts that need fixing but keeping our trajectory is more important

LankPantsDec 6, 20161 votes

A competent team could balance upwards of 200 IMO, there'll always be some outliers in that group but I think the bulk 90% could be balance with most of the outliers being on the weak side.

Unfortunately Riot's balance team isn't that competent. Given their inability or even disinterest in actually balancing the game I think they'd struggle with 50.

x Kuro xDec 6, 20161 votes

League is not designed to ever be "balanced". The pick and ban system allows us to find a meta based on the current state of champions. There are always champs who are weak and champs who are strong, releasing more champions does not change that in the least.

If we get enough champs, then there will be more snowbally hypercarries than there are bans, and we'll have them in every game.

LordofEntropyDec 6, 20161 votes

Essentially a few dozen ago. I think the best option is just to give all champions the same 4 abilities, passive, and stats. Would make balancing a lot easier.

YadidDec 6, 20161 votes

Honestly, this was the biggest problem I thought of when I started playing, and the biggest problem I think persists and will until the end. 130+ champions? Not including the fluidity of the jungle. There's always a cycle of nerfs and buffs and reworks. It's not sustainable as a balance-able game so long as new factors are being introduced. Then again, it's already been stated in the thread that so long as things "aren't switched up" then it's not as fun. If there are more game modes, maps, and such, then perhaps that issue could be overlooked during a 'balance period'. Also, as technology advances, then Riot will continue to want to update older champs with reworks. This all said, I think the fact that there's a continuous effort to balance champs to a point where it makes sense to purposely gut champions until there's a better time to visit them/tweak them/what-have-you, then we've already reached that 'point' referred to in the title.

ScissorsNstuffDec 6, 20161 votes

There will never be too many champions to balance

but that's probably not really what you want to ask either

the real question is what balancing methods/strategies actually work when you have too many champions.

ReadyxPlayerxOneDec 6, 20161 votes

It's meant to be unbalanced. The whole concept of balancing is so that one champion isn't completely overpowered they can't lose. Which they do a good job about. Many champions are designed to counter each other or certain play styles. They're not meant to each be capable of beating each other if played well.

EpicanianDec 6, 20161 votes

the game probably won't ever be fully "balanced". The meta shifts and changes, and that's always gonna be the way it is. Besides, new champions keep the game feeling fresh

MokkunDec 6, 20161 votes

At 2 distinct champions, there are too many champions to balance.

TyroneWatermelonDec 6, 20161 votes

When you neglect third of the champions in the and give their fanbase a middle finger in the face,as long as creating money bait skins and buffing champions solely because they are popular.