What's with the recent hate on Cho'Gath?

Malicious Metal··8 votes·1,442 views

I mean, I don't like playing against him that much either, I just tolerate him.

But why are people framing it as if he was some broken champion that warps the game? He's been nerfed repeatedly and only has a 5% ban rate.

He doesn't need nerfs in his current state, nor small bandaid changes. He needs a bloody VGU.

25 Comments

Frontline Fury5 votes

Probably because he is extremely unhealthy, and not fun to play AS OR against.

His laning phase: One of the highest base AD champions in the game also has extremely high in-built health and mana regen, empowered long range basic attacks with very low cooldowns, very high base magic damage and an in-built slow that also interrupts basic attacks. That's ONE spell that essentially defines his entire laning phase - there are perhaps three or four champions that can actually do anything against him in lane. It's almost impossible to push him out of lane, and likewise it is almost impossible to put him behind.

His general gameplay: build full tank. Outdamage every other champion in the game, often through basic attacks alone. To add to that, he has the second strongest silence in the game, a very long range knockup and an execute that often by the time laning phase ends can deal more than 1000 true damage.

Which brings us to the most obnoxious part - it doesnt matter if cho'gath is behind or not. There is literally nothing you can do to stop him from stacking and making his execute one-shot anything that isn't building full tank items. Nothing. Even if he goes 0/7 in lane he will still chomp down on minions or monsters and use that to one-shot a marksman, mid laner or jungler.

Cho'gath's core items make his gameplay extremely binary and predictable. This wouldn't be a problem - except for the fact that despite EVERYBODY knowing EXACTLY what he is going to do, there's still NOTHING you can do to stop it. He will literally just walk up to you and click one button to kill you. Even if you use multiple summoner spells you might not be able to get away - and if you are lucky enough to do, it still means you just had to give up your only means of escaping him without even getting to put up a fight. These escapes are now down for the next four-five minutes, while his chase begins again in roughly a minute.

This is the definition of unhealthy gameplay. You know what he is going to do - you can see it coming long before he even begins. But no matter what you do, you aren't going to be able to stop him or even fight back. There is no counterplay, other than "be fed". If you're not fed, then congratulations - you lost the match in champion select.

Bonus: Cho'gath guarantees you will lose every objective he ever attends. As his ult's BASE DAMAGE to non-champions BEGINS at 1000, he will ALWAYS do more damage than any smite. The only champion that can even contest him is Nunu.

Besides literally deleting one enemy champion from play forever, Cho'gath also removes any potential counterplay through his silence. You can't really basic attack him as marksmen are the only ones that can build the offensive items necessary without being 1-shotted by him or his teammates, and the silence disables any spells that might have been able to lock him down for a bit.

But that's just one side of the coin.

On the flip side, if Cho'gath is playing against one of the 5 champions that might actually be decent against him, there is nothing he can do. He is invalidated - he might as well have all his spells removed, because they're not going to have any effect anyways. Kalista doesnt care about silences, Brand can even without items deal huge chunks of damage, KogMaw literally just stands there and right clicks you to death even if you flash on top of him, Illaoi will never drop below 90%, ever and Tristana will just brainlessly right click you from far, far outside your reach. You cant damage them, you cant run away from them. All you can do is pray your teammates will save you.

Ralanr2 votes

Cho’gath? High AD?

What?

Malicious Metal1 votes

laughs in Morde

Skelenth4 votes

According to LoL wiki, Cho'Gath has one of the highest base AD with 61 at level 1 (with the highest being Maokais 63.5 at level 1) while also having a higher AD per Level than anyone with higher base AD than himself, with 4.2 AD per Level. This is the third highest AD per Level in the game, after Darius (Yorick, Mordekaiser, Illaoi and Udyr) at 5 per Level and Garen (and Skarner) at 4.5 per Level.

At Level 18, Cho'Gath is has the 8th highest AD with 132 AD, with the highest being Mordekaisers 146.

Cho'Gath does have high AD indeed.

Ralanr1 votes

Did not know that.

DragonShea1 votes

{quoted}

Cho’gath? High AD?

What?

I dread the day someone thinks about using X item on him.

Need Gold 4 Tent1 votes

{quoted}

I dread the day someone thinks about using X item on him.

Triforce? I did that back in the day when his E was a toggle. Attack speed tank cho was the shit, too bad sterak's wasn't out yet when I was still playing him.

DragonShea1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Need Gold 4 Tent,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=15fA4AsV,comment-id=0002000000020000,timestamp=2017-10-31T12:40:37.943+0000)

Triforce? I did that back in the day when his E was a toggle. Attack speed tank cho was the shit, too bad sterak's wasn't out yet when I was still playing him.

No motherfucking Steraks, with all the bonus HP he has, I will piss and shit myself with all that bonus HP.

Need Gold 4 Tent1 votes

{quoted}

No motherfucking Steraks, with all the bonus HP he has, I will piss and shit myself with all that bonus HP.

Tri/sterak's might still be legit. Add titanic for more cheese

Frontline Fury1 votes

{quoted}

Cho’gath? High AD?

What?

High base AD. That means his basic attacks hurt way more than they should even without any AD runes - and consider the fact he has a spell that empowers basic attacks on top.

Critmaster Garen5 votes

since they added the % damage to his e, his kit has no weaknesses. or at the very least its way too strong.

i was fine with him being a disruptive tank with an execution ult. if theyd just buffed his cc with his mini rework, then hed been good.

but they turned him into a combination of tank and juggernaut. this means in many cases there is no point to pick either a tank or a juggernaut, as long as cho exists and covers both roles and excells on them.

why pick a tank when you can pick a tank with a shitload of damage? why pick a juggernaut, when you can pick a juggernaut with the disruptive aoe cc of a tank?

waiting for WoW4 votes

Umm probably because he is a broken champion that warps the game? Repeated nerfs? do we live on the same planet? Cho was buffed for like 4 patches straight, and then got the tiniest slap on the wrist change to his E because it's damage was clearly overtuned.

Cho'Gath is still an obnoxiously broken champion that can EASILY top damage charts in full tank gear but people have just learned to play around him because a Dev at Riot clearly mains Cho'Gath and refuses to address it. Champions that have a less than 1% playrate don't suddenly pop up in every pro game overnight unless they are insanely overtuned or broken.

Sahn Uzal1 votes

Umm probably because he is a broken champion that warps the game?

lul.

Cho'Gath is still an obnoxiously broken champion that can EASILY top damage charts in full tank gear but people have just learned to play around him because a Dev at Riot clearly mains Cho'Gath and refuses to address it.

Hyperbole statements and exaggaretions.

IRyzeForNidalee3 votes

I feel like he has far less counterplay in lane if you're a melee now.

He's also an immobile melee though so there's not much he can do in this meta.

Death by Glamour3 votes

Point and click burst comparably to a Midlane mage while being extremely tank

Yeah idk why the hate

Malicious Metal2 votes

-Immobile Melee

-No range unlike every Mid lane Mage

-can only burst once in a fight and is a sitting duck if he fails

Melledoneus3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=15fA4AsV,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-10-31T11:52:40.928+0000)

-Immobile Melee

item 3800 item 3152 Not so immobile any more.

-No range unlike every Mid lane Mage

More range than most juggernauts in his category of HP pools.

-can only burst once in a fight and is a sitting duck if he fails

He has good, low cooldown CC and an AoE %HP three hit active. He can also just walk through a fight being a huge cockblock to whoever wants to maneuver.

Not saying it's impossible to work around it, but the guy gets a disproportionately high amount of power for so little effort, and I think that's the core issue.

Penns1 votes

He doesn't need nerfs in his current state

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLikP6BDH5w

DragonShea1 votes

Either he is a jugg or he is a tank, but right now he is not a 50/50 hybrid. he is a 100/100 hybrid and that is why people hate him, on top of his HP True damage ult scaling, item 3800 +item 3193 combo and unlimited HP stacking that makes Sion look like a bitch.

He has never been a true tank because his CC is too offensive orientated and "selfish" and his ult is lethal nuke.

Sahn Uzal1 votes

He's not really a tank because his CC is on way longer cooldowns that that of actual tanks.

PaffWasTaken1 votes

He got a mini rework that he didn't even need compared to at least 30 other champions and became unbalanceable since then. You would tell anyone playing any other MOBA than LOL that the biggest tank of the game also has the biggest true damage potential along with scaling health and damage, and they wouldn't stop laughing. Defending it makes no sense

bàn1 votes

/recent

LUL

Dr Dog1 votes

you do know that 5% is one of the most giant banrates in the game atm right? doesnt seem like much but it really is for league standards, and sadly hes gonna probably remain broken beyond belief until he gets a VGU which im pretty sure is confirmed for next season at some point

Darkdemon6531 votes

People have been complaining about him for 3.5 months because he's been completely broken for 3.5 months.

[{quoted}](name=Need Gold 4 Tent,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=15fA4AsV,comment-id=0002000000020000,timestamp=2017-10-31T12:40:37.943+0000)

Triforce? I did that back in the day when his E was a toggle. Attack speed tank cho was the shit, too bad sterak's wasn't out yet when I was still playing him.

Spellblade has never worked with toggles.

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