I don't even play eve... A champ that literally sees almost no solo queue play and was already bashed across the face with multiple nerfs over the course of the last year
But the cancer that is Kalista is still allowed to slap everyone in bot lane and be picked/ban in LCS >95% of the time
And for good measure let's throw in a vayne buff cause fuck it ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Rito you are gentlemen and scholars
Lil Soybean5 votesRivington already explained this on his stream, and it actually showed why the nerf was necessary.
First of all, drop this idea of, "omg I don't even see her often, so she doesn't "deserve" nerfs".
Here is the issue. She has one of the largest build diversities in the game. The most common build for her is entirely AP, starting with runeglaive. But the highest winrate build is AD. Not a single item overlaps between the two (except perhaps boots.)
When builds vary so much over literally hundreds of thousands of games with a champion, it means that people still haven't generally found the optimized build for that champion. The build that will have the most reliable success, the highest winrate. What this also means is that as the optimized build is discovered and becomes more common, that champions winrate will rise.
Are you with me so far?
Okay.
Her winrate was at 53%.
People were building her completely wrong. Hundreds of thousands of matches of her being played to less than her full potential. And yet she still was in the top few winrates in the entire game.
That's all there is to it. If you're really stuck on this idea that Evelyn must be shitty still, and that she doesn't "deserve" nerfs, regardless of the numbers, then there's nothing anyone can say to change you. :/
TheVishual1 votes[{quoted}](name=Lil Soybean,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0zFaUZmB,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-07-22T18:14:46.950+0000)
Rivington already explained this on his stream, and it actually showed why the nerf was necessary.
First of all, drop this idea of, "omg I don't even see her often, so she doesn't "deserve" nerfs".
Here is the issue. She has one of the largest build diversities in the game. The most common build for her is entirely AP, starting with runeglaive. But the highest winrate build is AD. Not a single item overlaps between the two (except perhaps boots.)
When builds vary so much over literally hundreds of thousands of games with a champion, it means that people still haven't generally found the optimized build for that champion. The build that will have the most reliable success, the highest winrate. What this also means is that as the optimized build is discovered and becomes more common, that champions winrate will rise.
Are you with me so far?
Okay.
Her winrate was at 53%.
People were building her completely wrong. Hundreds of thousands of matches of her being played to less than her full potential. And yet she still was in the top few winrates in the entire game.
That's all there is to it. If you're really stuck on this idea that Evelyn must be shitty still, and that she doesn't "deserve" nerfs, regardless of the numbers, then there's nothing anyone can say to change you. :/
There are a bunch of champions in the game that fit the same description that you just gave; people playing with unoptimized builds which lower the overall winrate and still have high winrates. They remain unpatched and are still on live
You act like Riot balance is all-knowing authority on balance when they aren't and let OP shit slip through from PBE to live ALL THE TIME.
But really the main point is how Riot keeps taking power from jungle and leaving it in bot lane forcing metas
Lil Soybean1 votesThere are a bunch of champions in the game that fit the same description that you just gave; people playing with unoptimized builds which lower the overall winrate and still have high winrates. They remain unpatched and are still on live
You act like Riot balance is all-knowing authority on balance when they aren't and let OP shit slip through from PBE to live ALL THE TIME.
But really the main point is how Riot keeps taking power from jungle and leaving it in bot lane forcing metas
The difference is that with Evelyn, we're talking about absolutely 100% different builds across hundreds of thousands of games, if I remember correctly.
When hundreds of thousands of matches are played with her in suboptimal builds, and they're winning most of the time, then it's indicative of a problem.
I don't know what else I can say about that. If Azir was sitting at a 53% winrate being built full tank right now, can you imagine if everyone suddenly realized how much better they'd do with full AP Azir? Evelyn's in a similar situation. You can build badly and still win most of the time. Those are just the numbers...
Bears Dont Care1 votes[{quoted}](name=Lil Soybean,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0zFaUZmB,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2015-07-22T19:22:49.654+0000)
The difference is that with Evelyn, we're talking about absolutely 100% different builds across hundreds of thousands of games, if I remember correctly.
When hundreds of thousands of matches are played with her in suboptimal builds, and they're winning most of the time, then it's indicative of a problem.
I don't know what else I can say about that. If Azir was sitting at a 53% winrate being built full tank right now, can you imagine if everyone suddenly realized how much better they'd do with full AP Azir? Evelyn's in a similar situation. You can build badly and still win most of the time. Those are just the numbers...
You have no stats to support the notion of it being a sub optimal build. Especially when you ignore the fact eve is a hybrid who scales with both stats outside her ult. Naturally she will see similar winrates because she can be built flexible. This is reflected in her weird kit 3
Lil Soybean1 votes[{quoted}](name=Bears Dont Care,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0zFaUZmB,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2015-07-22T20:19:39.211+0000)
You have no stats to support the notion of it being a sub optimal build. Especially when you ignore the fact eve is a hybrid who scales with both stats outside her ult. Naturally she will see similar winrates because she can be built flexible. This is reflected in her weird kit 3
What do you mean I have no stats? I was using statistic that Rivington referenced. Statistics that showed those super-popular builds having lower winrates than her AD build.
Of course she can have success with varied builds. That doesn't change the issue; she was at a 53% winrate with most people using her less successful builds. If everyone adjusted to using her optimal build, her winrate should increase. 53% and rising over hundreds of thousands of games with less-than-optimal builds is indicative of a problem. If you disagree, that's fine. You'll believe what you want to. But that was Riot's viewpoint, and Rivington's viewpoint, and then mine as well.
Abyssphere1 votes[{quoted}](name=Lil Soybean,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0zFaUZmB,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-07-22T18:14:46.950+0000)
Rivington already explained this on his stream, and it actually showed why the nerf was necessary.
First of all, drop this idea of, "omg I don't even see her often, so she doesn't "deserve" nerfs".
Here is the issue. She has one of the largest build diversities in the game. The most common build for her is entirely AP, starting with runeglaive. But the highest winrate build is AD. Not a single item overlaps between the two (except perhaps boots.)
When builds vary so much over literally hundreds of thousands of games with a champion, it means that people still haven't generally found the optimized build for that champion. The build that will have the most reliable success, the highest winrate. What this also means is that as the optimized build is discovered and becomes more common, that champions winrate will rise.
Are you with me so far?
Okay.
Her winrate was at 53%.
People were building her completely wrong. Hundreds of thousands of matches of her being played to less than her full potential. And yet she still was in the top few winrates in the entire game.
That's all there is to it. If you're really stuck on this idea that Evelyn must be shitty still, and that she doesn't "deserve" nerfs, regardless of the numbers, then there's nothing anyone can say to change you. :/
Do you mind giving the stats to support your claim? Because while I can see that AP is her most common build, I cannot see anything about AD being her most powerful build. AD tank is the one that's used by the pros (especially with the Runeglaive nerfs in this patch) but here:
http://champion.gg/champion/Evelynn/
^ highest winrate is basically glass cannon AP.
Where is the evidence that people have been building her wrong?
Lil Soybean1 votesDo you mind giving the stats to support your claim? Because while I can see that AP is her most common build, I cannot see anything about AD being her most powerful build. AD tank is the one that's used by the pros (especially with the Runeglaive nerfs in this patch) but here:
http://champion.gg/champion/Evelynn/
^ highest winrate is basically glass cannon AP.
Where is the evidence that people have been building her wrong?
They aren't my statistics. They were ones Rivington referenced on his stream, probably from Lolking. In any case, they were from before the recent nerfs. Statistics aren't going to be the same anymore. There's a big reddit thread on it somewhere if you want to find it.
Abyssphere1 votes[{quoted}](name=Lil Soybean,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0zFaUZmB,comment-id=000100020000,timestamp=2015-07-24T20:07:08.474+0000)
They aren't my statistics. They were ones Rivington referenced on his stream, probably from Lolking. In any case, they were from before the recent nerfs. Statistics aren't going to be the same anymore. There's a big reddit thread on it somewhere if you want to find it.
Lolking doesn't really offer stats along those lines, I referenced champ.gg because it's the only site that I know of that goes into which build does best.
You're only seeing this post now which means the stats I linked are now for 5.14 but when I initially posted they were for 5.13, which did not have Evelynn or Runeglaive nerfs functional. Amusingly now that the nerfs have gone live she seems to be doing best with the AD build, but I can only hope you believe me that before the new patch the highest winrate build was AP.
I might take a look for the Reddit thread but my basic point is that it was at least debatable as to which build the stats favoured. "Evelynn has a good winrate with terrible builds" is quite a big exaggeration when at least some sources showed that AP was actually a very viable build, if not the optimal one.
Bears Dont Care1 votes[{quoted}](name=Lil Soybean,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0zFaUZmB,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-07-22T18:14:46.950+0000)
Rivington already explained this on his stream, and it actually showed why the nerf was necessary.
First of all, drop this idea of, "omg I don't even see her often, so she doesn't "deserve" nerfs".
Here is the issue. She has one of the largest build diversities in the game. The most common build for her is entirely AP, starting with runeglaive. But the highest winrate build is AD. Not a single item overlaps between the two (except perhaps boots.)
When builds vary so much over literally hundreds of thousands of games with a champion, it means that people still haven't generally found the optimized build for that champion. The build that will have the most reliable success, the highest winrate. What this also means is that as the optimized build is discovered and becomes more common, that champions winrate will rise.
Are you with me so far?
Okay.
Her winrate was at 53%.
People were building her completely wrong. Hundreds of thousands of matches of her being played to less than her full potential. And yet she still was in the top few winrates in the entire game.
That's all there is to it. If you're really stuck on this idea that Evelyn must be shitty still, and that she doesn't "deserve" nerfs, regardless of the numbers, then there's nothing anyone can say to change you. :/
That is a logical fallacy since first off, optimal builds stem from the kit a champion possesses.
Evelynn has no optimal build because she scaled from both ad and ap. This allows diversity few champs possess. The notion there is an optimal build that will magically raise her winrate is a false premise.
Her optimal builds are found with a week or 2.
Lil Soybean1 votes[{quoted}](name=Bears Dont Care,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0zFaUZmB,comment-id=00010003,timestamp=2015-07-22T20:16:42.628+0000)
That is a logical fallacy since first off, optimal builds stem from the kit a champion possesses.
Evelynn has no optimal build because she scaled from both ad and ap. This allows diversity few champs possess. The notion there is an optimal build that will magically raise her winrate is a false premise.
Her optimal builds are found with a week or 2.
Having AP and AD scalings doesn't mean having an "optimal" build is a fallacy. Whichever build for a given champion results in the most success is, by definition, their most optimal build. It doesn't mean other builds aren't successful, it just means they aren't AS successful.
That was the whole problem. Evelyn was having 53% success even with her less-than-optimal builds.
Bears Dont Care1 votes[{quoted}](name=Lil Soybean,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0zFaUZmB,comment-id=000100030000,timestamp=2015-07-24T20:06:01.503+0000)
Having AP and AD scalings doesn't mean having an "optimal" build is a fallacy.
You.misunderstood. I stated the fallacy was stating no one has discovered an optimal build for her. They have it for both ad and ap.
That was the whole problem. Evelyn was having 53% success even with her less-than-optimal builds.
It wasn't a less than optimal build because they utilized the same core items. Any items afterwards are additional options
Lil Soybean1 votes[{quoted}](name=Bears Dont Care,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0zFaUZmB,comment-id=0001000300000000,timestamp=2015-07-24T23:11:15.407+0000)
You.misunderstood. I stated the fallacy was stating no one has discovered an optimal build for her. They have it for both ad and ap.
It wasn't a less than optimal build because they utilized the same core items. Any items afterwards are additional options
I didn't say no one had discovered it. Some people (presumably) had. That's why some builds had higher winrates than others.
The problem is that she wasn't sitting at 53% W/R with that one optimal build - she was sitting at 53% W/R with tons of non-optimal builds.
If everyone switched to the most optimal build, her winrate should have risen.
Do you think that 53% winrate and rising is suggestive of a totally balanced state? If so, there's nothing else I can say. In my experience, if someone has a lot of problems with a champion, they'll call them broken, regardless of the numbers. But if someone doesn't have a lot of problems with a champion, they'll often just keep defending them, arguing that they don't "deserve" nerfs, regardless of what the numbers say.
If you don't feel like Evelyn deserved nerfs, regardless of her numbers, then that's just your opinion man. And that's totally fine. :P I'm just explaining why Riot put the nerfs through, according to Rivington.
Phuc Dat Bich3 votesworlds are near so riot atm nerfing everything that is not lee sin/Vayne/oriana/Thresh/Nidalee
In order to have "World big plays" they dont want any other champion to be relevant in worlds....
Riot does this every summer...its disgusting...but what ever once again evelynn would be useless for 6 months the worlds would end and riot would bring her back from the death!
biggad20011 votesEve is still OP.
Only Play Darius1 votesYea I fucking hate 
. Why does she get 4 passives? Why is she the only ADC that is allowed to synergize with
(giving her unintended waveclear and triple lifesteal) when hurricane is a noobtrap on literally every other ADC? Why is she allowed to ignore movespeed slows? Why can she have an outright superior version of Twitch's contaminate that also gives her dragon/baron control that outclasses true-damage junglers?
SwapShadows1 votesI dislike eve, she can bypass wards and you're only allowed 1 pink which shits on you so hard especially if you're mid.
She needs a rework; she is all over the place.