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Some Opinions for When Kayle is Reworked

Mira Arya Enthe·8/5/2017, 11:01:50 PM·55 votes·3,653 views

Kayle. One of my favorite possible Champions as I have a huge thing for Dark Angels, Angels, Demons and Valkyrie. With some of the potentially most boring non-interactive game play in any game ever. "Hur dur not every champion is Azir!" That argument doesn't even make sense because Azir was non-interactive, and dominated the entire game when he was strong. So let's please not act like there isn't a middle ground, a healthy amount of skill requirement and dynamic gameplay, counterplay and fair design without being Riven.

That all in mind I have some personal directions I would personally enjoy if Riot took. So I will state my personal opinions on where I would personally like to see Kayle go. Most of these are gameplay related opinions I personally hold so I put it here so I'll get the one lore related thing out of the way.

1: I've said this before and it's more lore related so I'll be brief on it. Basically please don't follow the non-stop trope everybody is doing of "the dark one is actually the good one" you're supposed to be able to pick either side, let's not make Kayle intolerably evil for the sake of making Morgana look good like every other single one of these matchups between light and dark. I would honestly find Kayle unbelievable and dull if she had no humanity or morality for the sake of riding the never-ending Edge train. It would be awesome if both sides were well meaning and therefore assumed they were right in being opposites. Rather than opposing assholes where we desperately try to find something agreeable about them.

2: This is the gameplay part though aimed a bit more on the in game visuals and such. I would love it if Kayle actually felt really powerful. No I'm not talking a big and muscular like Illaoi, as an immortal magical being that is far from necessary. Nor am I talking about her feeling always in control of every situation like Camille, that is just frustrating to play against and annoying to play as stfu Camille(just a joke). I'm talking about visually and in audio, having the kind of high impact High weight and power feel that you can apply with proper effects, voice overs and who visual design.

Basically I wanted to feel like she is raining fire on your head, blasting you with hallowed forces, smiting you down. Screeching, howling, thundrous sounds. And when she shields or heals somebody that needs to feel truly redeeming and like you/she is invincible within her presence. For some reason content creators only think that dark supernatural beings need any kind of aura or presence, as a writer I find this to be foolishly missed opportunities. Kayle could have a very ominous, powerful and amazing feel about her. Reflected most through her gameplay, the visual effects of her abilities, her audio, voiceover and model.

3: The game play direction I would prefer with Kayle is a bit different than she is right now. I hate how her E doesn't even so much feel like an ability for her, and more feels like a limitation placed on her early game. This reminds me of Ashe's old slow, it doesn't feel like a rewarding button to press, it feels like a penalty that becomes less encumbering as the game goes on. I do understand why it exists for balance and fairness.

That said a rework is the ideal time to change a Champions core purpose to be more fun, more played, more fair, healthier, to have a good level of skill expression, healthy power scaling, and counter play. I think the biggest mistake that could be made with the Kayle rework, is to stick to the core gameplay of being a mage ADC who is just limited early game but becomes ridiculous if she's allowed to get a few Farm. Being utter trash early game, but if the meta or team composition or enemy team lets her get too late game, she loses all sense of counterplay and fairness. So I think the biggest thing that is unhealthy about Kayle is her E.

4: That brings me to another point. This rework must define what Kayle is. As it stands she has abilities ranging from support to marksman to fighter to mage. And while I certainly believe in multi-purpose Champions who can do more than one thing or are worth more than one button, in Kayle's case that has led to this unhealthy amalgamation that in certain meta is insanely overbearing in just about any role. But in any other meta is a piece of trash, whose stats just don't check.

She can be a kiting monster, a frustrating make the Marksman invincible piece of trash, or actually just a piece of trash. Me personally, I would aim for a semi ranged fighter, with limited but good feeling supportive capabilities. That to me embodies an Angel. Then Riot will need to decide what Lanes balance her around. Personally I would prefer her to be balanced as a bot Lane alternative to a standard Marksman and/or a bot lane alternative to a standard support. That said I will not push this agenda on anybody, if her fan base, Riot or the general player base would prefer her elsewhere so be it. Top, Mid and Jungle are all fine too.

5: I have a love-hate relationship with Kayle. She's frustratingly boring to play yet is so close to being something awesome, she fills one of my favorite archetypes alongside dragons, Valkyrie and others. And can be frustrating as heck to play against, and playing as her as frustrating unless you're super fed and even then somewhat boring. So I really hope that Riot goes right with her rework. It would be the first release or rework that has excited me in a while. I would say a lot about Morgana who is equally exciting, but Riot tends to be pretty good at making dark stuff. And I don't have many problems with directions they could go with Morgana gameplay.

As usual I hope you enjoyed this read, I posted this with the best intentions for the direction of this champion. And I'd love to see your views on a Kayle rework.

Mira Arya Enthe.

118 Comments

SweedishGunner8/6/2017, 1:51:50 AM31 votes

If she could not be like a ranged Tryndamere that'd be great.

DorkunedAuras8/5/2017, 11:42:17 PM17 votes

Ok, just throwing ideas here since this seems to be the place to do it.

Let's work off her basis that her ult, in some form or another, is staying. She will be able to make selected person invincible. The big thing is how exactly it works. I think right now, her ult is goddamn stupid. Instantly "You no die now". I want some counterplay. Something the enemy fighting her can do.

For example, When Taric hits R, you have stuff you can do. You can destroy everyone in the area, you can knock people away from his ult. Ya know, proactive things. That's what I want from this invulnerability. If she has to have it, let her enemies not be sad.

Beyond that, I'm skeptical of the idea of "possible DPS or Utility source". Whenever a DPS champ has too much utility, that's always been a problem. Either their DPS needs to be lower than what you'd typically want, or their utility isn't that significant. There's never been a successful case of a champ being both Primary DPS or Supportive utility based on speccing without serious issues.

AirKingNeo8/6/2017, 12:49:17 AM5 votes

Kayle's E is actually her entire playstyle and design and I think abilities that are static like that are fine. I also don't want Kayle to be made complex in any way. I think her being simple and based around her E is a different direction and uniqueness than any other champion in the game.

Kayle is a self peel marksman who falls off against tanks in the late game due to being hybrid damage and whose peel falls off in the late game (her heal does not scale way and she can't build into any sustained healing). I think her current kit is fine because her Q being targetted allowed her to negate a lot of the high and somewhat extreme outplay potential of a lot of champions and assassins. Her heal exists because she doesn't have lifesteal, though I guess changing her W into something a lot different and upping HP regen a but would be fine. Her E is her core gameplay and uniqueness. Her ultimate is something that takes a lot of power budget and is my personal favorite while is also the most basic way to learning ability timing (on a beginner champion).

As for lore and VO and character design? I'd just update on her current model and her sword should be tied or relate to her lore if it has those weird symbols on it. Probably update the Aether Wing lore too. Attack animation should be fixed on both base and Aether (Aether is a bit clunky at low attack speed). Probably fix her auto canceling where a sound and even the E's splash animation shows but deals no damage. I like her current lore so maybe keep it a bit similar and improve on it.

EDIT: Fuck people having constructed opinions.

The Mighty Flea8/6/2017, 7:31:54 AM4 votes

I think she should have a Imperius from Diablo 3 vibe to her in regards to her power and attitude

Ahristocats8/6/2017, 8:22:04 AM4 votes

azir is interactive?

Vallalan8/6/2017, 9:12:31 AM4 votes

her ult is the most toxic part of her kit, note the E. I'd argue the Q, W are boring and can be throw away abilities. but the E is iconic to kayle players. It's what makes Kayle, well...kayle.

the ult though is super busted. it's why they constantly have to gut her and not do other buffs to her like increase the range she has when she pops E, etc. they can't buff her. as long as she can go god mode and kill everyone in 3 seconds once she gets enough items, she can't be balanced.

rework the ult cuz its cancer, and the Q and W because they are boring. they you can create a healthy and fun to play champion.

also its important to note that we need multiple options for sustained magic damage in this game.

if you change Kayle's E then thats one less champ. right now there's pretty much just Cassio, Kayle, and Azir. Maybe you can include Karthus and Ryze in there as well. regardless there aren't many sustained magic damage dealers. I like that identity for Kayle. I just don't like the ult.

GGLineaR8/6/2017, 1:27:13 AM2 votes

I kinda want their lore to be tied to the blessed isles and the shadow isles.

Say they were part of an ancient race that fought against Mordekaiser, and Morgana was enslaved for her immense magical power, or something like that.

Of course, that's just because I'm a dirty Mordekaiser fanboy.

EDIT: Why am I getting downvotes now? lol

NineTailedMystic8/6/2017, 12:16:34 AM2 votes

Pls not a Fighter.