The Issue with Kayn.

PhearBunny··2 votes·957 views

Its no debate, with his abysmal win rate, he is clearly a bad champ. However, neither his blue or red form, are bad by any means.

The issue lies in his base form. His base form is the WORST champ in the game, because of this his ganks are bad, his lane phase is bad (if youre laning), and it becomes a struggle just to become a viable champion(working towards Red/Blue). A struggle that all too often leads to Kayn unavoidably going like, 0-5 before he has a chance to be a real champ. If he doesn't get lucky early game kills, and they are indeed lucky kills considering how weak he is early. Pure luck. If he doesn't get those luck kills, he is completely terrible for the whole game.

In my opinion his base form should be significantly buffed. At lvl 6 and every rank of his ult, you should be able to select a form.

The difference in base form to Blue/Red shouldn't be so much in the numbers, but more in slight playstyle shifts....

13 Comments

MoldyCheese11 votes

he does enough damage early on, he just lacks cc, and the design was based on a weak early on this would make him strong in every phase, he has the best wave clear in the game with his q in the jungle you can get a lvl adv on top or mid and then abuse that to help kill someone when they are in kill range thu a wall.

PhearBunny1 votes

Name a champ that base Kayn can duel and win.

ZedUsanGovos1 votes

a ryze with no abilities. :^)

MoldyCheese11 votes

kayn :) i can beat darius if i q his q (not that hard) ect.

PhearBunny1 votes

What Darius's passive is stronger than Kayns entire base form kit haha. Youd have to kill him with literally nothing but W pokes and never actually engage him. That aint realistically gonna happen.

MoldyCheese11 votes

max q get some cdr and just stick to him with q/w and its not that hard.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Nah his lane phase isn't bad if you take him there.

You HAVE to start a corrupting pot and max W first to opt into red form(it doesn't matter if you're fighting a ranged champ you just have to fill the gauge and wait 4 min to transform to red). and keep poking with W moment you take some retaliation and W is off CD, pop 1 pot and poke further, should get souls for trans soon.

Don't have to rush to get an early kill just keep poking away and once the jungler can make an appearance should secure the kill.

However I wouldn't advise going blue form since you cannot 1 point wonder your Q in blue form, thus would delay blue form's power of having innate base damage since you're under leveled. But if by the time you want to transform you have both Q+W maxed then you might be able to blue form. So far I just opt for red cause of the way I build.

As for jungling, I'm kinda wanting to try taking DFT instead just for the earlier transformation(each tick of DoT gives a soul to kayn) however I still think I'd pref fervor for red, TLD for blue.

However it's not all about winning, just going for trades for the sake of it is fine. It's a misconception that every single game you must get early kills, it's enough to just poke out a laner and get their flash for the next gank or just harass them then back off to leave your laners in a good spot. Or if fighting the jungler, do it in a way where you don't have to all-in or can call for laner assistance (ex. they push in a lane).

Kayn's win rate is just the community trying to force things now-a-days.

MoldyCheese12 votes

on a funny note* i did 500 ad kayn with 2 inf drakes and baron and my rahaast r did 90% max hp, Later went into practice and did 6x 80ad items with 3 infernal redpot, baron and elder and my r did 121% max hp!!!

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

o_o ty god it ain't true damage......

PhearBunny1 votes

His lane phase IS bad though. I'm aware you have to max W for it to function, and his W is actually a relatively strong poke, However.... The issue with it, is, not only does maxing W negatively effect your red form. Maxing W also makes you indirectly shove the lane while poking your enemy laner away from you. You will get ganked, and you will die. You will shove lane, enemy will freeze lane, knowing you cant actually do anything to them or CS without using W to last hit. You will lose in CS, you will lose in exp, you will always be in danger.

I mean it CAN work if your opponent is totally crap, but we shouldn't be using total crap opponents as examples.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

You aren't galio, you can withhold W or choose the right time to actually W to still control the wave. Don't have to even lose the slightest lane control.

Not to mention you can still keep proper warding and observe jungler's panterns to choose when it's fine to go deeper. Unless you just royally screwed up and just handed over lane control for free vs every single top laner you've ever seen.

PhearBunny1 votes

I genuinely feel like he is so weak in base form, that lane control isn't his to give away. He never has it to begin with. If you somehow have lane control as Kayn, then your opponent isn't freezing lane and using their champ superiority to zone you away from every wave after the first wave, and they fall under the category of totally crap opponent.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Idk might be since I'm use to using several of the "meta" top laners while also a few off-meta top laners which can regularly deal with them. Just seems easily adjustable as long as I know where the powerspike condition is. So I'm mostly just use to dueling any of them from renek/darius/riven/tanks/gnar/teemo/rumble/jayce etc. I've either used them long enough to understand how to duel them or how to get a jungler's help to curve lane pressure.

Because even if you were to shove in a wave into a freeze you can still call a jungler to help shove it in and reset the wave, which sadly most top laners don't even know to do.

Kayn's powerspike is mostly hold the lane as long as possible and play safe until transformation. Freezing and zoning is also heavily powerful to punish the opponent to trying to get near. In most cases shouldn't even be near most melee bullies for them to get their effects off, while range should just focus on trying to get the transformation condition via corrupting pot with jungler's influence to help wave control if they manage to pull a freeze.

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