We need an item for supports to give a mana regen aura

darkdill·Jan 20, 2015·83 votes·3,281 views

Who here remembers Mana Manipulator? We lost that item at the start of S3, and now that mana regen has been gutted all around, shortages are everywhere. I say that for teams with higher mana consumption (i.e. Jayce, Lux, Anivia, etc.), giving the support/tank the option to buy a mana regeneration aura item would be REALLY useful. Clarity simply is a never-used Summoner Spell in normals, as it means you basically give up bottom lane to the enemy (who can be more aggressive with Exhaust).

Any thoughts on this? Or would it be toxic again?

50 Comments

XonraJan 20, 201520 votes

Ah, the days of Taric and mana manipulator. I used to call him captain auras. sheds a tear

Tannhäuser GateJan 20, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Ah, the days of Taric and mana manipulator. I used to call him captain auras. *sheds a *

FTFY

Rew711Jan 21, 201510 votes

I personally miss Soraka 's blunt "here's some mana" ability.

Taric was before my time.

BallisticMouseJan 21, 20154 votes

Merry Christmas have some mana!

Remlap1223Jan 22, 20153 votes

Fuck you have some mana!

YOU BEEN WARNEDJan 21, 20155 votes

Why not give the passive to Ardent Censer item 3504 to make it distinct from other mana regen items ? Make it more expensive ( so it would have more lategame-ish stats to reduce it's niche )

Or introduce a new item from Forbidden Idol. item 3114 That works too.

darkdillJan 21, 20152 votes

That's along the lines of what I was thinking, though probably a new item would be best.

Pika310Jan 21, 20151 votes

Either a new item, or put it back into FQC's recipe like it used to be. Then maybe I'd actually upgrade Spellthief's now and then. Since Frostfang is a gold pit, I prefer just selling Spellthief's for Void Staff or something instead.

Raith AlghulJan 21, 20152 votes

Anything that would make item 3504 into an actual decent item has my support.

Remlap1223Jan 22, 20151 votes

Uh, I don't know about you chief, but Ardent Censer is a core build on all of the supports I play (besides Gangplank and Shen ).

Raith AlghulJan 22, 20151 votes

That doesn't make it good, it's situational, it might increase your ADC's item efficiency but it's a toss up whether the rest or your team will benefit. If you have a bunch of casters and mages on the rest of your team the extra attack speed is just going to be wasted, so it really only ends up being worth it if your ADC is hard carrying or you have a lot of auto attackers, the stats it gives to the champion buying it are really not that great. Even then you can just go item 3050 and at least get 20%cdr and extra health.

Remlap1223Jan 22, 20151 votes

But no lifesteal? On an item that builds off of scepter? And same situation, what if I get stuck in a team full of casters? I always pick a support around a team composition, not the other way around. Plus the stats are nice, unlike Zekes which takes away stuff you build on it.

VesarixxJan 22, 20151 votes

What are you talking about? You don't lose the life steal, Zeke's has an Aura that gives +20 damage and 10% lifesteal to your entire team, including you. The only time you would lose those stats is if you tried to stack item 3050 s

Also I wasn't talking about your support picks, regardless of who you are playing item 3504 isn't something that should be core, the only time I've ever bought it was on a cheese build for support Nidalee, since 5 points in heal gave an 85% attack speed boost with it with not much downtime. I feel the need to note though that this was not a serious pick, support Nidalee is bad.

Remlap1223Jan 23, 20151 votes

I think Zeke's might be bugged then, because I haven't gotten the bonuses. I know it doesn't state the lifesteal on your character screen, but I swear I have been getting zero bonuses from it.

VesarixxJan 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I think Zeke's might be bugged then, because I haven't gotten the bonuses. I know it doesn't state the lifesteal on your character screen, but I swear I have been getting zero bonuses from it.

might want to check the character stats page in a custom game or something

Subject 5Jan 20, 20153 votes

Yeah i would love that, i never used the item because i was new to the game. I don't actually think i even started playing at the time, what was toxic about it? I mean, most AP mid laners don't really exist anymore if you actually think about it. The exception is AP mid laners that actually have gap closers, because if they can kill you 100-0, they do not need mana regen.

Zyra Anivia TwistedFate Ziggs Lulu Lux Malzahar Karma Lissandra (Lissygaga pulled a Lulu to the top lane, Riot likes her better though.) Heimerdinger Diana Cassiopeia Galio

These are the champions that do exist who rely on mana

Ahri Annie Xerath (Xerath is EXTREMELY rare for me to ever see this guy, and if they do play him it is usually a smurf. And they are really good.) Veigar (Picked ONLY for specific reasoning, still pretty rare to see this guy as well. I would not count him out though) Syndra (Oh no! Syndra is one of the few mid laners with mana actually viable, better nerf her into the ground too!)

These are the champions that are resource less or rely on energy, i will post a list below of the exceptions. If you get what i mean.

Akali Zed Yasuo Riven Katarina

OperationDEEZ1Jan 20, 20153 votes

Vladimir and Zac are pretty balanced manaless champions, you could call vlad resourceless since he can just heal the hp with his Q. Mordekaiser isn't going anywhere anytime soon

What Is SmiteJan 20, 20151 votes

Yet with Mordekaiser get hit by one E and you just lost about 1/4-1/5 of your HP bar and about 40% later on in the game

darkdillJan 20, 20152 votes

The problem with it was that you could start a match with it as a support and it was therefore abusable by harass supports like Sona. It essentially was obnoxious and unbalanceable in early game, but didn't build into anything useful later on (IIRC).

NarasimhaJan 21, 20154 votes

It actually built into Shard of True Ice, which later became Frost Queen's Claim. And Shard itself wasn't bad, it actually had a great active.

The issue with the mana regen aura as a whole is that it makes other builds more screwy. Some champions, most notably Anivia, are balanced around their need to build mana and mana regen. A mana regen aura takes away part of that need, meaning the champion in question is able to build more offensively, which in turn messes up their intended balance.

darkdillJan 21, 20151 votes

But with mana regen gutted everywhere, even an Anivia with Archangel and Grail will continue to have burnouts.

NarasimhaJan 21, 20151 votes

Well thats nothing new, even before the nerfs Ani tore through her mana anyway XD

SpecterVonBarenJan 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It actually built into Shard of True Ice, which later became Frost Queen's Claim. And Shard itself wasn't bad, it actually had a great active.

The issue with the mana regen aura as a whole is that it makes other builds more screwy. Some champions, most notably Anivia, are balanced around their need to build mana and mana regen. A mana regen aura takes away part of that need, meaning the champion in question is able to build more offensively, which in turn messes up their intended balance.

But then we wouldn't have locket which allows others to not have to buy mr...

NarasimhaJan 22, 20151 votes

Locket is more valuable for the shield effect. 20 MR is pretty negligible. It helps, but its generally not a life saving amount. On the other hand, a mana regen aura is more dangerous, because it allows for a sustained offense.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a decent mana regen aura. I just want to see one thats actually balanced and doesn't end up like Crystal Maiden (ok, a bit of an over exaggeration), and thats the tricky bit.

YGW CaspieJan 21, 20153 votes

It used to build into Soul Shroud actually... which was horrendously underused at the time but Soul Shroud used to be a support item that gave everyone CDR and Mana Regen.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Soul_Shroud

Marinaras TrenchJan 20, 20151 votes

I love xerath

Live2LetDieJan 21, 20151 votes

Carried myself to plat from b1 last season with xerath support. The poke, cc, dem damages did everything for me. I know have to buy a chalice just to be able to proc my spell thief at range.

24971353_DELJan 21, 20153 votes

What if sightstone wards had an aura. Something like: Nearby allies gain 75% base mana regeneration for the next 5 seconds. This cannot apply more than once to the same ally within 30 seconds.

The radius would be pretty small so you'd have to be pretty close to the ward, however, you only need to pass by it to gain the 5 second buff,

Subject 5Jan 22, 20151 votes

I like this idea a lot actually. Mostly because mid and top laners would buy more wards, and it could be used as bait and tactical play as well.

DiostukosJan 20, 20152 votes

That actually sounds like a great idea.

Miku Lv99Jan 21, 20152 votes

It should be a high tier, expensive item. No start game extra harass for good pokers. Maybe something like Forbidden Idol + Aether Wisp + 1050 Gold 60 AP 50% base mana regeneration 10% CDR

Unique Passive: 10% movespeed Unique Passive: +50% base mana regen to all nearby allies with the same AoE as Aegis.

Great item that could make mages useful again. Although on a non-mana hungry team it'd be not worth it.

Or like someone said the Ardent Censor could just be made into this (or something close to it)

DisasterSolaJan 21, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Miku Lv99,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0vc1XWJY,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2015-01-21T05:13:28.978+0000)

It should be a high tier, expensive item. No start game extra harass for good pokers. Maybe something like Forbidden Idol + Aether Wisp + 1050 Gold 60 AP 50% base mana regeneration 10% CDR

Unique Passive: 10% movespeed Unique Passive: +50% base mana regen to all nearby allies with the same AoE as Aegis.

Great item that could make mages useful again. Although on a non-mana hungry team it'd be not worth it.

Or like someone said the Ardent Censor could just be made into this (or something close to it)

Huh!?! Ardent censor is evolving! Que music Your Ardent censor has evolved into "Koomungu's tainted crystal"! Congratulations!

KTC: 3000g Ardent censor+blasting wand+gold

+100AP +150% base mana regen +10% cooldown reduction +10% movement speed

Unique passive: Tainted aura: Grants +75% base mana regeneration to allies within 500 units. Unique passive: All of your spells which target an allied champion grant you and the target ally +35% attack speed and +10% movement speed for 6 seconds

ArbiterOfTruthJan 20, 20151 votes

I think one of the reasons for getting rid of all the aura items (r.i.p.) was because of their invisible power they didn't feel like they were making as much of an impact. I do agree that we could really use some nice aura items though.

darkdillJan 20, 20152 votes

Riot's made that argument a lot, but we still keep Aegis of the Legion and Zeke's Herald. With mana regeneration having been gutted everywhere, no one will argue the usefulness of an aura that gives, say, 75% extra base mana regen in mid-to-late game.

Additionally, Riot wouldn't be able to use that whole "abusable in early game" argument anymore because this aura wouldn't kick in effectively until mid-to-late game, when your base mana regeneration is actually high enough for the aura to have a real effect.

B1naryB0tJan 20, 20151 votes

Zeke's Harold is extremely niche at best, and although locket is still good, it was nerfed on the road. While I think this would be a good idea, to give more options and "strategic diversity" this would be extremely viable with almost any teamcomp.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea. I can only imagine the things this would make viable.

darkdillJan 21, 20151 votes

The whole "extremely viable with almost any teamcomp" bit is subjective. It depends on whether or not you want to give up an item slot so your team can benefit from extra mana regen, and whether or not you want to pay the opportunity cost. For instance, buying that mana regen aura item could prevent you from also getting a Locket.

TheRainInSpainJan 20, 20151 votes

Clarity is a bad summoner spell that might see use in certain champions, but tends to fall short compared to what other spells can do. It honestly needs a rework, alongside a general rework of all summoner spells.

darkdillJan 20, 20151 votes

There's also the issue that when you hit mid-to-late game, Clarity isn't useful anymore because you'll have already gotten your mana regeneration items, which SHOULD cover that base.

TheRainInSpainJan 21, 20151 votes

Without respect to a greater Summoner Spell Overhaul, I personally think Clarity should give a pretty big flat amount of passive mana/5, and a big chunk back for an active ... if it stays a purely "I get mana" spell.

I think it should be more than that, but that's a stopgap fix.

EviIGreenRangerJan 21, 20151 votes

I remember mana manipulator back then. Playing support and often get it if my team was mana dependant. I still get item 3050 sometimes, but rarely that's only if there's at least 2 or 3 allies that were dependant on auto attacks. Wish they put a mana regen aura back in the game.

It Hertz When IPJan 21, 20151 votes

Mana manipulator was my go to Soraka item, the Shroud it built into was (IMO) core for her.

FantasySniperJan 21, 20151 votes

I think individualizing mana resources has been their intent for this whole pre-season, so I doubt it.

I can't think of any situation where I would pick something like that up over something like Ardent Censer or Locket, to be honest, a caster team isn't really going to care.

TheRainInSpainJan 21, 20151 votes

Overall, I think that in terms of mana, champions should be made like this:

--Champions that need huge amounts of mana for a massive extended combo, so they want as much mana as possible to unleash all at once. Their skills use relatively low amounts but cannot really be spammed. These champions have pretty big mana base and mana base per level, but relatively weak base regen and regen per level.

--Champions that constantly spam spells; as soon as CD is up, spell is launched in the general direction of the opponents. Spells may not have the greatest costs, but the low CD mean that if they don't have the regen, they will be dry. Moderate mana, but generally higher regen. Functions best with percentage based regen, but certain percentage based passives (or CDR runes) mean CDR+ManaRegen item isn't as needed, so a Bank+Regen item or pure Regen item can be used.

--Champions that are neither. For the most part these champions benefit from regen and CDR, but have a pretty good punch on their own not to be constantly on CD. The "Sniper" type mage, if you will. So will benefit from a general/flat mana/mana regen boost.

As for items. I think you should be able to do this for a basic/cheap combined item:

--Mana + Mana or Mana + Defense. So Catalyst/Glacial Shroud type items. A Mana + MR item should exist.

--Mana + Regen. Tear of the Goddess.

--Regen + Defense. Besides Chalice, something should build from both the Health Regen item and Mana Regen item that focuses on being a hyper sustain item (with obvious issues that it provides virtually no offense or defense). Maybe this item could be a new Mikaels (using its active to heal + give mana at the cost of nullifying its passive regens)

--Chalice should be harping on the fact it adds MR. So the MR from Chalice should feel pretty significant. The downside is that in all its full items, a key part is that it provides regen and MR (or Armor for its AD counterpart), so it's obviously going to lack AP and maybe CDR. The Athenes could also have its CDR reduced to 10% for a bit more MR and AP. Dunno.

--Mana + Health is fine.

Most mages should be building some mana or mana regen, but if you're really going at it because no matter what type of mage you are, somehow you're always spamming spells, then you trade DOT and or punch for more spells. That is obvious. Athene's/Morell should be hybrid items, giving a moderate amount of AP, some mana/mana regen, and some utility. If you opt for more mana regen (and to a lesser extent CDR), you get less utility (so from some ... to none), or less damage output (lower AP on already kind of weak AP items).

WullfJan 21, 20151 votes

the golden days of Soraka with endgame build: Phliosopher stone, mana manipulator and basic boots.

I miss those days.

Wards everywhere.

Tin TarantinoJan 21, 20151 votes

It was actually the start of season 4 when this was removed, I miss it, used to get mostly Aura items on Sona, zekes, locket, mana manipulator and captains enchantment. Elisas miracle was a good one as well.

Remlap1223Jan 22, 20151 votes

"No, because that gives hidden power, and we're against that. In fact, for even mentioning that idea, we better give a nerf to Sona, juuuust to be safe and make sure she doesn't turn into Lee Sin, who we fully endorse in his OP state."

Rito 2015

Social Justice 1Jan 22, 20151 votes

Do any of you remember why Baron stopped giving mana regen

darkdillJan 22, 20151 votes

That was removed so Baron Buff could get that whole minion-booster effect without being too strong. (unless I'm mistaken somehow)

Social Justice 1Jan 22, 20151 votes

{quoted}

That was removed so Baron Buff could get that whole minion-booster effect without being too strong. (unless I'm mistaken somehow)

They swapped out the regens for minion boost to solidify Baron buff as "You have 3 minutes to really mess them up" because beforehand having Baron meant seiging for 5 minutes while the enemy team turtled for 5 minutes

darkdillJan 22, 20151 votes

The difference here is that a mana regen aura would be STRATEGIC DIVERSITY. You want that mana regen aura, you probably have to give something up to get it.