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I'm a Tahm Kench Main. Riot, why are you rewarding us with damage for stacking tank items?

Horrow··10 votes·5,532 views

The biggest reason why Tahm Kench works is because of the passive on his ultimate. I gain 150-300 extra damage on my auto attacks, my Tongue Lash (Q), and my Devour (W) just for building health.

Wasn't Tank Ekko nerfed because he dealt damage while building pure tank? Wasn't Tank Katerina nerfed because she could build nearly full tank and still kill everyone?

I'm curious as to why you guys gave Kench such a passive that goes against those philosophies. You guys even buffed it a few patches ago.

Why does Tahm Kench get to build pure tank and still get to kill anyone he likes? Not to mention he also punishes anyone else for building health thanks to the % Health damage on his W.

Is it because Tahm Kench is 'immobile'? Personally I haven't found him all that immobile at all. Unless 'Immobile' is given to champions who lack dashes and blinks. Has anyone tried to get away from Kench? The moment he lands his Tongue Lash on you (which is easy to do when anyone tries to harass him), there is no escape outside of dashing/blink and flashing away. He makes anyone as immobile as a slug when he lands his Q, eats them, then carries them away for a few seconds then immediately follows up with another Q. All the while, he's probably taken half or a third of your life away doing so. Try to fight back? You'll be doing peanut damage because he can build all the tank items he wants and gets rewarded with damage for doing so.

I don't know why he hasn't caught on with more people yet. He can go top or support and just go to town the moment he gets his ultimate for the passive tacked on to it.

70 Comments

AtheosisX4 votes

Because he's a bruiser more than he's a tank due to the lack of cc in his kit (the only reason he can be played support is his W). Just look at Nasus with his one slow. Pretty much the same deal with Tahm Kench and his Q.

Horrow5 votes

{quoted}

Because he's a bruiser more than he's a tank due to the lack of cc in his kit (the only reason he can be played support is his W). Just look at Nasus with his one slow. Pretty much the same deal with Tahm Kench and his Q.

Lack of CC? What lack of CC?

His Q is both a Slow and a stun, depending on if the person you land it has 3 stacks or your passive or not.

Then your W can literally take an enemy champion out of the fight for several seconds. Long enough that they don't get to have any more influence on a fight because it will be over by the time they're allowed to come out, if you keep them inside of you for the max duration of devour.

He does not in any way lack CC.

AtheosisX1 votes

{quoted}

Lack of CC? What lack of CC?

His Q is both a Slow and a stun, depending on if the person you land it has 3 stacks or your passive or not.

Then your W can literally take an enemy champion out of the fight for several seconds. Long enough that they don't get to have any more influence on a fight because it will be over by the time they're allowed to come out, if you keep them inside of you for the max duration of devour.

He does not in any way lack CC.

For a tank he absolutely does. Plenty of bruisers have comparable single target cc. True tanks have aoe cc and often have good engage. Tahm Kench has neither. He's really not a true tank. That's why he needs the extra damage.

Horrow2 votes

{quoted}

For a tank he absolutely does. Plenty of bruisers have comparable single target cc. True tanks have aoe cc and often have good engage. Tahm Kench has neither. He's really not a true tank. That's why he needs the extra damage.

No....no he doesn't. He does not lack any CC. In any way shape or form. He has Soft and Hard CC. Regardless of what you want to believe in.

Chicken Sailor4 votes

He's saying that Tahm's cc isn't as strong as a lot of other tanks. When you look at guys like Sion and Amumu, sure their damage isn't that high, but they can cc the entire enemy team with one or multiple abilities. Those guys also have really good engage (mumu Q, Sion R) while Tahm does not. Tahm is lacking in a lot of areas that tanks don't usually lack in, that's why he gets compensated with damage.

AtheosisX1 votes

{quoted}

No....no he doesn't. He does not lack any CC. In any way shape or form. He has Soft and Hard CC. Regardless of what you want to believe in.

What is so hard to understand about a lack of aoe cc and a lack of engage? Tahm Kench is not a tank like Leona. Without damage he would be beyond useless.

Horrow1 votes

{quoted}

What is so hard to understand about a lack of aoe cc and a lack of engage? Tahm Kench is not a tank like Leona. Without damage he would be beyond useless.

{quoted}

Because he's a bruiser more than he's a tank due to the lack of cc in his kit (the only reason he can be played support is his W). Just look at Nasus with his one slow. Pretty much the same deal with Tahm Kench and his Q.

This is the original post you had. I replied to it saying you were wrong and provided you with why you were wrong. My point remains. I never said he doesn't lack AOE. I disputed your declaration of him "Lacking CC".

AtheosisX1 votes

{quoted}

This is the original post you had. I replied to it saying you were wrong and provided you with why you were wrong. My point remains. I never said he doesn't lack AOE. I disputed your declaration of him "Lacking CC".

He massively lacks cc by tank standards. He has bruiser cc. All single target. This is not a difficult concept...

SaltyKracka2 votes

He has more CC than Maokai. I'd hardly call it a massive lack.

AtheosisX2 votes

{quoted}

He has more CC than Maokai. I'd hardly call it a massive lack.

Maokai is compensated by having aoe damage mitigation for his team. He also has good engage which Tahm Kench completely lacks. The point is that tanks are compensated in one way or another when they lack heavy aoe cc or engage, and Tahm Kench's compensation is damage that scales off his health. Without that extra damage, and the dueling potential it gives him, he would be a worthless champion.

SaltyKracka1 votes

...His compensation is his ridiculous tankiness through his E. He doesn't to have his damage scale off of it as well.

AtheosisX1 votes

{quoted}

...His compensation is his ridiculous tankiness through his E. He doesn't to have his damage scale off of it as well.

Have you looked at his win rate and overall stats in the three roles he can fill? He's fairly low in all of them. You take his bonus damage away and he becomes worse than trash tier.

Faith Breaker4 votes

Ekko and Katarina are damage dealers with high base damages and kits designed for kiting and killing. Tahm is a tank and that's what he does. If it were NOT for his Ult Passive he'd be no threat. Who cares if Tahm hits you, q'd you, or devoured you? It doesn't hurt, and being removed from a fight wouldn't matter since you'd come back without being hurt and go back to killing Tahm's team. The dmg boost helps keep Tahm relevant and viable as a tank (Riot's intention) rather then people building DeathCap and Rylai's and being another squishy burst mage.

Plus, Tahm is rewarding for being HEALTH not Resistances So he has a massive Health pool but ideally poor armor and magic resistance. This makes items like BotRK and abilities like Vayne's Silver Bolts deal TONS of dmg to Tahm. In my opinion Tahm's in a really great spot, I still win and lose games with him and it feels like I win because I played well and when I lose I feel like it's my fault. That says alot about a champ's state of balance in my opinion.

Jbels2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Faith Breaker,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0tamzuwd,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-09-22T01:01:34.277+0000)

Ekko and Katarina are damage dealers with high base damages and kits designed for kiting and killing. Tahm is a tank and that's what he does. If it were NOT for his Ult Passive he'd be no threat. Who cares if Tahm hits you, q'd you, or devoured you? It doesn't hurt, and being removed from a fight wouldn't matter since you'd come back without being hurt and go back to killing Tahm's team. The dmg boost helps keep Tahm relevant and viable as a tank (Riot's intention) rather then people building DeathCap and Rylai's and being another squishy burst mage.

Plus, Tahm is rewarding for being HEALTH not Resistances So he has a massive Health pool but ideally poor armor and magic resistance. This makes items like BotRK and abilities like Vayne's Silver Bolts deal TONS of dmg to Tahm. In my opinion Tahm's in a really great spot, I still win and lose games with him and it feels like I win because I played well and when I lose I feel like it's my fault. That says alot about a champ's state of balance in my opinion.

My build was Deadman's plate, Spirit Visage, Sterak's Gage, Titanic Hydra, and Cinderhulk. Pretty good resistance there. If I dropped Sterak's for Spirit Viage, I could be even bulkier

Horrow2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Faith Breaker,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0tamzuwd,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-09-22T01:01:34.277+0000)

Ekko and Katarina are damage dealers with high base damages and kits designed for kiting and killing. Tahm is a tank and that's what he does. If it were NOT for his Ult Passive he'd be no threat. Who cares if Tahm hits you, q'd you, or devoured you? It doesn't hurt, and being removed from a fight wouldn't matter since you'd come back without being hurt and go back to killing Tahm's team. The dmg boost helps keep Tahm relevant and viable as a tank (Riot's intention) rather then people building DeathCap and Rylai's and being another squishy burst mage.

Plus, Tahm is rewarding for being HEALTH not Resistances So he has a massive Health pool but ideally poor armor and magic resistance. This makes items like BotRK and abilities like Vayne's Silver Bolts deal TONS of dmg to Tahm. In my opinion Tahm's in a really great spot, I still win and lose games with him and it feels like I win because I played well and when I lose I feel like it's my fault. That says alot about a champ's state of balance in my opinion.

I strongly disagree.

If you don't think Tahm taking one of (if not your only) damage dealer(s) out of a team fight for several seconds a threat, then I think you need to really think on it. It would still deal damage (especially his W). Plus how can you ask " Who cares if you're stunned"? Do you know what a stun is? Do you know how game changing it is when you stun the right person in a team fight? Or when you remove the right person from a team fight to allow your team to steam roll for those few seconds? Tahm's CC is as big a threat as any other hard cc. You do NOT want your carries to be locked down or taken out of a fight. Even if Tahm didn't have his passive, you'd be making a grave misplay if you were to just ignore Tahm and let him stun as well as eat your carry.

Faith Breaker1 votes

I was talking about his kit IF HE DIDN'T HAVE DMG SCALING OFF HP ON ULT PASSIVE Clearly you lack any kind of reading comprehension so have fun arguing with yourself because you don't even know what I'm talking about. Good job.

Horrow1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Faith Breaker,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0tamzuwd,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2015-09-22T01:40:39.927+0000)

I was talking about his kit IF HE DIDN'T HAVE DMG SCALING OFF HP ON ULT PASSIVE Clearly you lack any kind of reading comprehension so have fun arguing with yourself because you don't even know what I'm talking about. Good job.

And I specifically stated "Even if Tahm didn't have his passive, you'd be making a grave misplay if you were to just ignore Tahm and let him stun as well as eat your carry."

So no idea where you're coming from now. But if that's your response, I'm guessing you have nothing useful to say anymore.

Seriphym1 votes

{quoted}

I strongly disagree.

If you don't think Tahm taking one of (if not your only) damage dealer(s) out of a team fight for several seconds a threat, then I think you need to really think on it. It would still deal damage (especially his W). Plus how can you ask " Who cares if you're stunned"? Do you know what a stun is? Do you know how game changing it is when you stun the right person in a team fight? Or when you remove the right person from a team fight to allow your team to steam roll for those few seconds? Tahm's CC is as big a threat as any other hard cc. You do NOT want your carries to be locked down or taken out of a fight. Even if Tahm didn't have his passive, you'd be making a grave misplay if you were to just ignore Tahm and let him stun as well as eat your carry.

Please consider that your talking to individuals who have no idea what CC is or even about. If they did they wouldn't complain about Katarina.

3TWarrior1 votes

actually, with a few AP items, tahm's W can deal up to 72% of your max hp in magic damage

but typically with tank items, you would probably only get to 40% with a realistic build

Jbels3 votes

I'll put it another way. I was jungling Tahm once and I snowballed hard. It got to a point where I could burst down a fully built tank Gnar in under 5 seconds. In his words though: "WTF HOW! I'M A TANK AND HE BURSTED ME DOWN IN 3!!"

TendajiX1 votes

base 32% max hp dmg, that's how.

DarkSavior413 votes

It is no different the voli WWWand sej scaling of HP. The difference is that his kit, range, and play style are base around it. Tank ehho having massive damage, with a huge gap closer, 3 hit passive % game a ult that basically nukes someone and revives him make no sense. A slow moving, short range tank with no real gap closer and a ult that is slow, does no damage and long CD can get away with it.

AntiFlash3 votes

They are rewarding you for building tanky because that's the ability they gave him. Are you saying you think they should remove the on hit damage?

TendajiX1 votes

Yes or reduce it. It isn't the dmg, it's the amount of dmg.

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

[deleted]

SaltyKracka1 votes

In case you haven't noticed, his base damages aren't exactly low.

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

[deleted]

SaltyKracka1 votes

...Shen does not have a particularly low damage/tankiness ratio. It's why they nerfed his sustain.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Horrow3 votes

{quoted}

It really isn't particularly high when put on a champion with zero mobility. Shen gets away with it because he has an aoe taunt and a global range ult.

If you're referring to Tahm Kench with your 'Zero Mobility' statement, then please stop. His ult alone contracts the term 'Zero' mobility. I'm surprised at how people forget that he basically has TF's ult. Sure, it may not be as large a zone as TF's, but he can bring an ally along with him when traveling to another area that normally would take him 10 to 20 seconds to reach.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Horrow2 votes

{quoted}

There is a difference between a global teleport and mobility in fights. Tahm is extremely immobile in fights and his damage is subpar compared to other immobile melee champions.

He's as immobile as any champion with out a blink or dash. Know what that means? Every champion with out those are extremely fair game for him to prey on in fights. Especially in fights. And champions with blinks or dashes, guess what? One hit of Q (or you know, general CC from the rest of the team) is by far more than enough for Tahm to catch anyone. Have you tried kiting a tahm? Its a lot harder than you think for a champion you claim is 'immobile".

AtheosisX1 votes

{quoted}

He's as immobile as any champion with out a blink or dash. Know what that means? Every champion with out those are extremely fair game for him to prey on in fights. Especially in fights. And champions with blinks or dashes, guess what? One hit of Q (or you know, general CC from the rest of the team) is by far more than enough for Tahm to catch anyone. Have you tried kiting a tahm? Its a lot harder than you think for a champion you claim is 'immobile".

Why are you putting immobile in quotes like it's even remotely debatable? Your whole take in this thread is just weird.

Horrow1 votes

{quoted}

Why are you putting immobile in quotes like it's even remotely debatable? Your whole take in this thread is just weird.

Probably because 'immobile' doesn't accurately describe a champion who can port across the map? Not to mention 'Zero Mobility' is flat out incorrect when used to describe Tahm Kench.

TendajiX5 votes

He deals low dmg until like the 5 min mark............. and please go look at devour's base dmg. Also, he can't die once he learns thick skin, it's 2 hp bars essentially. -_-

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

[deleted]

SaltyKracka2 votes

Nasus is incredibly squishy compared to TK.

I know this because I fucking main Nasus, and I can't do anything to a TK in lane. Not early, not midgame, not late. TK top counters Nasus and there's fuck-all Nasus does to him.

TendajiX1 votes

You know, you can't defend a champ being broken by saying he's weaker than and an even more broken champ -_- not to mention nasus has no hard cc unless you count his bs slow.

Durzaka1 votes

His damage at lvl 6 is insane, and it comes with 2 kinds of CC. Youre out of your mind.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Durzaka2 votes

He lacks the major burst some champions like Darius gets, but saying his CC is condition is just hilarious.

If youre fighting him, you absolutely will get either stunned, or devoured. And if you get stunned, youre going to get devoured unless he used it early to eat a team mate or minion for poke.

For a tank, his damage is very very good.

Jupıter1 votes

But his CC is conditional. There is no way in hell an enemy team is jut going to let you, as TK, walk to the back line, hit a champion thrice, devour them, and walk back to your team. Remember that it requires three hits for TK's hard CC to work. Otherwise, he only has a slow.

Durzaka4 votes

His Q has a 70% slow on it. And a 4 second CD before CDR.

If you hit someone with it, they WILL have 3 stacks on them when Q comes back up, and then you are free to Q stun, and then devour them for MASSIVE damage.

No, Tahm isnt a hard engaging tank, but that doesnt mean he isnt a good tank with good damage.

Jupıter1 votes

Again, in a fight, no one is going to let you get to the back line. What, are you going to waste your time getting stacks on the tanks so you can remove them while their ADC and Mid laner hit you?

I never stated that he didn't have good damage, or that he wasn't a good tank, I was simply stating that by definition, his CC is conditional. The condition is you must have 3 passive stacks to use it.

And, if in this instance, it is late game, when Tahm has his 70% slow, Banshee's Veil, or any spell shield, Wind Wall, and Braum shield will stop the projectile. If you're ranged, just kite the dude, and dodge the Q.

Durzaka2 votes

{quoted} And, if in this instance, it is late game, when Tahm has his 70% slow, Banshee's Veil, or any spell shield, Wind Wall, and Braum shield will stop the projectile. If you're ranged, just kite the dude, and **dodge the Q. **

I seem to recall that being a pretty popular excuse to survive Nidalee, guess what? it didnt work then, doesnt work now.

If your teams tanks are wasting their CC to stop the enemy Tahm from getting tot he back line, he has already done his job. Because he can eat ALL of that CC, and keep coming, because he is easily the tankiness champion in the entire game right now.

And if youre against him 1 on 1, with equal gold, he needs to land ONE Q (if your ranged) and thats it, youre done. So sure, keep dodging, it doesnt work forever, because there are skilled players out there who can land skill shots.

Also, Tahm is a pretty damn effective Tank Buster with his 32% max hp nuke that also takes them out of the fight for 3.25 seconds.

Jupıter1 votes

Tahm Kench is not the tankiest champion right now. Mundo, Singed, Rammus, and Maokai fill that role way better than Tahm.

And I still don't know why you keep doing this. My original argument was that Tahm Kench's CC was conditional. I got that point across. I wasn't trying to claim Tahm was a bad tank, or that he didn't have good damage. You said that "Saying Tahm's CC is conditional is hilarious" and I was offering a counter argument.

Yes, I have shifted my argument in different ways, but my entire argument was on Tahm's CC.

Durzaka2 votes

Because a tank without damage is useless.

If they arent a threat, then they arent doing their job.

Dont you dare get my Top Kench nerfed.

TendajiX2 votes

Wrong. A tank without CC is useless. they're job is to absorb damage, peel, disrupt, and lockdown. Their role is not for damage.

Durzaka2 votes

No, there are 2 kinds of tanks.

Those that provide shit loads of CC (Zac, Sion, Amumu, Nautlis)

And those that provide some CC and moderate damage (Cho'Gath, Mundo, Tahm, etc.)

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