@Riot Regarding upcoming tear changes. What about Manamune users?

CitadelOfIce··4 votes·534 views

The new tear looks more like its meant for burst mana users. Most AD tear users aren't burst, they need it for the mana regen. Jayce, Urgot, and to some extent Ezreal really need that mana regen more then mana conservation. Once they run dry they are commonly forced back to base unless they have tear to refill there mana bars. I'm just saying Jayce and Urgot have enough problems as is without losing there mana regen itemization. At the very least look at maybe hot fixing them so this doesn't become an indirect nerf.

8 Comments

LankPants2 votes

Tear's effect is just better on everyone. A 25% reduction in manacosts is always a little better than a 25% increase in regen.

If you have a 50 mana spell and you regen 10 mana per second increasing your mana regen by 25% gives you 12.5 mana/s, you take 4 seconds to gain 50 mana. If you refund 25% of the cost you get 12.5 mana back, taking 4 seconds to regenerate the mana and having 2.5 mana left over, LoL rounds up so you'd have 3 mana left. You can try this with any numbers you want, it always comes out in favour of 25% refund. All of this is also before mentioning how much it increases your total mana pool by too.

I really wouldn't be surprised if this pushes Ez and/or Jayce into overpowered territory since those champs are already probably a little too strong.

CitadelOfIce1 votes

{quoted}

Tear's effect is just better on everyone. A 25% reduction in manacosts is always a little better than a 25% increase in regen.

If you have a 50 mana spell and you regen 10 mana per second increasing your mana regen by 25% gives you 12.5 mana/s, you take 4 seconds to gain 50 mana. If you refund 25% of the cost you get 12.5 mana back, taking 4 seconds to regenerate the mana and having 2.5 mana left over, LoL rounds up so you'd have 3 mana left. You can try this with any numbers you want, it always comes out in favour of 25% refund. All of this is also before mentioning how much it increases your total mana pool by too.

I really wouldn't be surprised if this pushes Ez and/or Jayce into overpowered territory since those champs are already probably a little too strong.

Yes you will get 12.5 mana back but once your mana drops below the cost of your spell's your left with only your normal mana regeneration. So while the refund will let you cast a handful of extra skills you will ultimately be hosed once the mana is gone. Jayce and Urgot have the problem that they need to be able to survive in Lane almost indefinitely due to there play stile. They bully you out then over farm you bully you out again then back when you do to keep the farm difference. They play the long con and like to roam, use mana then recover it on the walk back. With this new tear they can't recover from an over use of mana like they normally would by just waiting it out and play safe. At the very least I would say do something to urgots mana regeneration stat and buff jayces hammer e so he gets more mana per hammer hit. Ez will do well with the new item mid to late game but will still run into mana problems over time early on. So his early boost from it will drop and he'll need biscuits.

LankPants1 votes

Yes you will get 12.5 mana back but once your mana drops below the cost of your spell's your left with only your normal mana regeneration.

In theory this doesn't matter because your last spell cast gave you 12.5 mana, meaning if you cast from 50 you'd start at 12.5 rather than 0. Tear theoretically makes it impossible to hit 0 mana, so the head start on your mana has a bigger effect than increased regen.

So while the refund will let you cast a handful of extra skills you will ultimately be hosed once the mana is gone.

Let me lay this one out for you. Jayce has 19.6 M/5 or 3.92 M/s at lv 18. His Shockblast costs 80 mana. On casting it he gets 20 mana back. In order for 25% mana regen to regenerate 20 extra mana at lv 18 you need to wait 20.4 seconds, without casting another Shockblast or any other spell. This is the best case for old Tear and new Tear is still better.

In a more realistic case Jayce isn't level 18, he's probably around lv 9 if mana's still a major problem. At this point he has 11.4 M/5 or 2.28 M/s. Under these conditions it would take Tear 35.1 seconds to regen 20 extra mana.

They play the long con and like to roam, use mana then recover it on the walk back. With this new tear they can't recover from an over use of mana like they normally would by just waiting it out and play safe.

They do recover mana, in fact they effectively recover more per second since they get a 25% bonus when they spend the mana they recover. You really seem to be underestimating this effect a lot. It not only slows your mana consumption but also increases the value of every piece of mana you regenerate by over 25%, the mana that you regenerate gets fed back into tear and when you spend that 20 mana you get another 5, then another 1, meaning that when you regen 80 mana you're effectively regening 106, a 26 mana swing.

This is the reason why I think every mage in the game will either go Tear>Cat or Tear>Lost after the changes, Tear works incredibly well with any form of regen, including just your natural regen.

buff jayces hammer e so he gets more mana per hammer hit.

This is a terrible idea. Remember that increased value per mana I was talking about? Well Jayces hammer swings now give an extra point of mana at rank 1 and an extra 5 at 5. Adding more mana into a positive feedback loop isn't a good idea.

Zarkkast1 votes

Yorick item 3070

CitadelOfIce1 votes

{quoted}

Yorick item 3070

He needs his rework not a hot fix lol

Zarkkast1 votes

Well, so does Urgot.

Espy Psyche1 votes

Jayce and Ezreal don't need reworks though.

Also Lucian occasionally builds Manamune. I've seen Manamune Lucian in a couple of LCS games (not just talking about silver here).

Something needs to keep Manamune users viable...

CitadelOfIce1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Espy Psyche,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0rj26RRT,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-04-11T05:33:24.484+0000)

Jayce and Ezreal don't need reworks though.

Also Lucian occasionally builds Manamune. I've seen Manamune Lucian in a couple of LCS games (not just talking about silver here).

Something needs to keep Manamune users viable...

I never said they needed reworks? But yeah, I've seen tear Lu too once.

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