I do not remember ever winning a game without a tank.

adidas·Sep 13, 2016·2 votes·690 views

So if they're dying in 1-2 seconds like everyone says then idk maybe im just bad luck

34 Comments

Maximum MordeSep 13, 20166 votes

I've won plenty of matches without tanks. If you have some kind of wombo combo team fight that wipes most of the enemy outright, tanks aren't needed at all.

Snowball4uSep 13, 20161 votes

99% of wambo combos include tanks.

(because they are the majority of the champs that have easy to hit aoe hard cc)

Maximum MordeSep 13, 20161 votes

Nah, it's a pretty even spread between mages, supports, and tanks that can set it up.

Snowball4uSep 13, 20161 votes

there are people like annie that almost instantly stun a group of people, but i cant think of any other mages.

but think of someone like nami vs someone like malphite. Much easier to land malphite ult, and the knockup lasts longer

Maximum MordeSep 13, 20162 votes

Nami, Orianna, Syndra, Annie, Morgana, Bard, Sona, Zyra, Heimerdinger, Riven, Kennen, plenty more examples exist. I'm not trying to sell Tanks short, because there are tons of tanks that can setup da plays too, I'm just saying there are ways without them as well.

Snowball4uSep 13, 20161 votes

nami cc isn't instant ori is meh (works but i personally don't really like it) syndra is too slow (if she is ulting before the e, otherwise its not really for a wambo) annie i named morg too slow again bard is eh (works but not exactly what i think of when i hear "wambo combo") sona works zyra too slow heim too slow and not really a wambo style team riven needs flash (otherwise too slow) kennen works

I'm talking about cc not damage... Yes I know mages and marksman can do aoe damage, my point was tanks are the most reliable form of aoe hard cc.

ErockandrollSep 13, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maximum Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0pXjHfjE,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-13T16:42:19.138+0000)

Nah, it's a pretty even spread between mages, supports, and tanks that can set it up.

Arguably, a combination of Bruisers and High CC mages/supports, could provide all of the elements of a tank together.

{quoted}

No, they don't. Tanks usually come with a CC on their own and theirs is easier to set up but they aren't required or mandatory for a wombo combo to set up. There are plenty of champions that can fill the utility role in a team.

Tank's Job is mainly to be the primary engage. That's usually accomplished by building enough defenses to survive poke and retaliation while your team follows up. And using a combination of Mobility and CC to hold the enemy in place.

so to answer the question "Can you win without a tank?" You would have to ask these Questions. "Can you provide the elements that ensure a successful teamfight starts using the combined elements of your team without a dedicated tank?" and "How Necessary/useful is that really?"

The first question is, Yes. An engage mage like Lissandra or Kennen can easily use their kit to offer the team engage/lockdown, and rely on hourglass for survivability. But the Draw back is, if you rely on multiple elements to create that engage, it could fail you if the team isn't together, which also means that your even more teamfight dependent, than you would have been with a dedicated tank.

The second question is basically, "is Forcing a teamfight necessary to win?" Well no. You could easily win the game via split pushing. without even needing to force a fight under turret or at Baron. But this could have the problem of "If you divide your team like this, no one can afford to get behind." Otherwise, the split push won't hold pressure on the enemy.

ElikainSep 13, 20161 votes

No, they don't. Tanks usually come with a CC on their own and theirs is easier to set up but they aren't required or mandatory for a wombo combo to set up. There are plenty of champions that can fill the utility role in a team.

MacDeathSep 13, 20161 votes

Yasuo Rengar Orianna Nami Sivir

wouldn't be that tanky I think.

Snowball4uSep 13, 20161 votes

yasuo would be tanky in this situation

also this isn't the same type of wambo combo that i would be thinking but i guess it works

MacDeathSep 14, 20161 votes

No one in this team is designed to be a tank. Nor would any of them have to be one to make the combo work (except for rengar maybe, but not in low elo and there are other options too)

GULAG 4 USep 13, 20161 votes

The Orianna x Yasuo combo doesn't need a tank. Put in a master yi or kha'zix to do the cleanup and get ready to shit on people.

TheDarkinLegendSep 13, 20161 votes

STFU. You know god damn well that if you have a team with 1 or 0 tanks and you see a team with 3, you don't say "oh no problem". No, you groan becuase you know that the tankiness and CC plays out well long term overall in most match ups

RalanrSep 13, 20161 votes

I groan at seeing a team of 3 hard CC mages man.

CC is a bitch.

MatezoideSep 13, 20163 votes

Maybe you are getting tank confused with bruisers?

I am not even part of the "tanks are worthless" crowd, but i have won plenty of times without tanks.

TheDarkinLegendSep 13, 20161 votes

There is hardly a difference. Darius builds Black Cleaver and 4 tank item, still gets to do stupid amounts of damage while being hard to kill.

MatezoideSep 13, 20163 votes

Items =/= Champion role

The only similarity Darius has with a tank is that they are both hard to kill.

EndlessSorcererSep 13, 20162 votes

If your team refuses to pick a tank, you make someone into a goddamn tank.

Lulu Orianna

JustMyBassCannonSep 13, 20161 votes

Building defensively doesn't make someone a tank. And if the champion is supposed to fill a certain role, and you build them as a different role, you're severely gimping that champ's potential. It can work, much in the same way AP Ashe works.

EndlessSorcererSep 13, 20161 votes

What are you talking about?

I was referring to picking a champion whose utility could be used to make an ally into a pseudo-tank.

Orianna has a shield which provides bonus resistances and her ultimate can be used to make anyone into an initiator. You just plop the ball on an ally who can jump into the enemy team, then you ult to lock them down and reposition them.

Lulu has a shield and an ultimate which (1) provides health (2) knocks up enemies near the ulted ally (3) provides an AoE slow field around the ulted ally.

These two champions can be used to turn almost any champion into a pseudo-tank by providing additional durability and CC for initiation/disengage.

NaeniaSep 13, 20161 votes

I've won many games without tanks. People would complain about it in champ select but it is possible.

adidasSep 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I've won many games without tanks. People would complain about it in champ select but it is possible.

''it is possible'' means you have lower chances

NaeniaSep 13, 20161 votes

LOL what? How does "it is possible" equate to "your chances are lower"?

adidasSep 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

LOL what? How does "it is possible" equate to "your chances are lower"?

If you say ''it is possible'' You are saying that its really hard but can be done.

''Yo bro you think i can take physics chemistry and calculus in one semester''

'' Its possible''

Meaning its difficult, but can be done.

NaeniaSep 13, 20161 votes

I was saying that because some people think it's impossible, but that's inaccurate. It is possible. I've played many games without a tank and won. I don't give up just because we don't have a tank because I know we can still win. I've encountered a lot of people who would say "GG we have no tanks" at champ select. Those are the types of people who think it's impossible but I beg to differ.

adidasSep 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I was saying that because some people think it's impossible, but that's inaccurate. It is possible. I've played many games without a tank and won. I don't give up just because we don't have a tank because I know we can still win. I've encountered a lot of people who would say "GG we have no tanks" at champ select. Those are the types of people who think it's impossible but I beg to differ.

i mean you're in silver. It gets rougher as you climb. Champs like zac reksai and graves become so prominent that not having someone soak up damage on your team will ultimately lose you the fight in a matter of seconds.

NaeniaSep 13, 20161 votes

K well you're only G5 with a 48% win rate. I'm S2 with a 53% winrate. I'll see you soon.

adidasSep 13, 20161 votes

{quoted}

K well you're only G5 with a 48% win rate. I'm S2 with a 53% winrate. I'll see you soon.

actually my main acc is P2 thats the one im on right now so yeah.

NaeniaSep 13, 20161 votes

Right.

TheDarkinLegendSep 13, 20161 votes

Who cares if its POSSIBLE. The question is, how LIKELY is it? Do you not groan when you see 3 tanks on the other team while your team has only 1 or 0? Of course you do, because your experience has taught you that tanks and their CC play out well overall.

NaeniaSep 13, 20161 votes

Actually, I personally have never had a reaction (positive or negative) to the number of tanks on the enemy team vs the number of tanks on my team. It's going to take a lot more than a number of tanks to discourage me.