If the balancing team think Lee sin ult was the problem then there IS A PROBLEM.

LegendmakerGX·Jan 10, 2017·23 votes·1,766 views

How the balancing team think Lee sin ult was the problem amazes me and shows how out of touch they are with the game. Reasons why he is a problem is because he has one of the highest mobility champion in the game with fast jungle clear and no need to B since he can life steal a huge amount.

Lets not forget he is overloaded as fuck for a jungle, literately overloaded kit like Elis has been nerf but for some reason Lee sin has never been nerf. Wonder if Riot balancing team ever question why Lee and use to be (Nidalee) was always pick in LCS or jungle, it's because of their mobility and jungle clear.

Only reason why Nid isn't even pick a lot anymore is because jungle monster does to much high damage and she only has heal while Lee sin gets a shield and life steal for some stupid reason.

37 Comments

Akali is SO HOTJan 11, 201711 votes

600 base damage is a problem tho

RalanrJan 10, 20179 votes

Honestly his ult was just flat out ridiculous. I'm glad they nerfed it.

dominusxJan 10, 20178 votes

dw you still gonna get oneshoted lvl 3 by him

DengedenJan 11, 20172 votes

Or any jungler that hits their combo on you.

dominusxJan 11, 20171 votes

nah. not really. maybe half your health. but like 80% nah only lee and maybe kha'zix does that. But kha zix is meant to do dmg mostly nor he has the utility lee packs

SpoofghoulJan 11, 20171 votes

id rather they nerf the part where he uses your hp as damage amp when kicking you into your team

DivewingJan 10, 20179 votes

That nerf was simply so they could say they had.

It was a total horseshit nerf that solved nothing, but they have openly admitted that they don't want to properly nerf him cus LC$BIGPLAY$

EROTIC RAID BOSSJan 11, 20171 votes

when I watched... I think it was a clip of iwdominate, ranting about why lee sin is busted rn, and why other high elo streamers say he's so good rn. the ult damage comes up a lot. I think it was a pretty well targeted nerf.

DivewingJan 12, 20171 votes

Ok I probably reached closer to exaggeration than I meant to. My main point is that it doesn't stop him being King of the Jungle, and doesn't make him easier to deal with either, it just means COMPLETELY FULL tank isn't really an option, but that's null and void because he didn't/doesn't build full tank.

And riot fucking knows it

EROTIC RAID BOSSJan 12, 20171 votes

i think its probably more significant than you realize, along with the jg exp changes. between those 2 things his ganks will come later and they won't be so powerful early- as it was, he could hit 6 and bot lane would still be like 4, so R Q Q was just a death sentence. with less damage and with a smaller level advantage, probably not so bad.

DivewingJan 12, 20171 votes

The core issue is it has no counterplay. Riot has absolutely savaged a champions kit before because "stay out of range" isnt counterplay, and neither is relying on flash (let alone QSS FIRST then Flash), yet Lee's R not only gets a free pass, but preferential treatment. If a player being kicked is stun locked so they don't "waste flash and still get kicked" (fkn LOL), then there's absolutely no reason lee should get to do so. Either we both do, or we both dont. none of this Lee having his cake and eating it too bullshit.

The main problem is there is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much shit crammed into Lee's kit, and the worst thing is he has excess power too.

He gets to hold Q mark for 3 full seconds (while it's cooldown ticks) to decide to follow or not, and for some reason it also has high base damage. His ult has high base damage, huge scaling, and % max hp damage, at least 2 of these can go. His ult is also a triple-cc, rooting before, knockback/up during, and rooting after, and the only way to counterplay it is QSS Flash, which only avoids the CC, you still get damaged. His ult cooldown is too low that forcing him to use it sub-optimally, or him failing to use it correctly/effectively means jack all because its up in 30 seconds anyway. He has spell damage, ad damage and ad-scaling magic damage, auto-attack enhancements, and for some reason on top of all that he needs sustain too? Cut that sustain shit out, if he wants bullshit-high damage he deserves to be in a prime-invade position for it (like nearly every other damage jungler)

Thats a solid fucking list of unnecessary bullshit that could be trimmed back and HE WOULD STILL BE VIABLE. But he is the actual favourite.

I would rather have taken any ONE of my suggestions over that nerf to his ult base damage.

Hell, the fact that Riot said "we wont nerf him because pro play", means they are doing the EXACT OPPOSITE of what they did to Azir. They are willing to compromise solo q for pro play. Azir got the shaft in solo q for being playable in pro play, which subsequently removed him from pro play anyway.

EROTIC RAID BOSSJan 12, 20171 votes

your positioning is counterplay. it is like azir's insec move, which is about as undodgeable as lee's R, except azir brings a lot of other things to the table late game. I don't think theres anything inherently unfair about lee's kit, as long as he's balanced properly.

Brain Errör 404Jan 10, 20177 votes

Lol... you obviously do no research and just spout all kinds of bullshit.

"Lee Sin has never been nerfed" Oh, I guess not... it's not like he use to fountain dive people, tank fountain shots and kill an entire team. It's not like he got nerfed in Seasons 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5.

Oh, Nid isn't picked anymore because of jungle changes? I guess it had nothing to do with the gutting she continually got starting in S6 and ending at S7. Nope, not at all.

Lee's Ulti is a monstrosity and I think they're hitting the right part of his kit.

LegendmakerGXJan 10, 20177 votes

DAMN MAN you're totally right!!! it wasn't like he got buff for no stupid reason right??!!!

O wait he did, Riot stupid balance team DID buff him for a stupid reason, "He wasn't seeing a lot of LCS/ Pro games play so we are justifying buffing him just because he wasn't played for 1 SINGLE SUMMER SPLIT"

Brain Errör 404Jan 10, 20173 votes

Never said he deserved a buff. Funny that's what you bring up over what I said.

Your counter argument doesn't make you any more right.

BeatzBoyFTWJan 11, 20171 votes

Despite the fact that Sejuani Chogath DrMundo Fiddlesticks JarvanIV Tryndamere Volibear were the ones who hasn't seen a single playing in the jungle in LCS, of course LeeSin had it "worse".

Fucking Riot favoritism.

DemoGuideJan 11, 20175 votes

My thoughts exactly. But new jungle is made that way that champions with high sustain and high gank potential are OP. If jungle gonna stay that way, lee may need a nerf to lifesteal/shield/passive as/q missing hp damage/whatever gives early game damage or clear speed. He also needs R cooldown increased, so he can't just kick enemy out all the time if he loses a fight, then run away.

But his main problem is mobility. I think i will have to write this down for the 3rd time, but it needs to be written. So, My List of 3 Biggest Problems with Lee Mobility.

Base MS. For a champion, who has 2 dashes and knockback he has too good base MS. He can outrun like 90% of champions without using his dashes, and i believe thats a huge problem. How to catch him up? How to run from him? You can't. Extra safety provided by ult and dashes is used to leave your zone of impact, where you can no longer slow him or deal damage from him. Then only thing he need is to simply walk away. Sounds fair.
W jump speed. It's almost instant. It's almost a blink. It's so fast most of the time you can't react properly to it. That's it: you have to expect Lee to jump on this spot to counteract him. What if he is coming from fog of war? What if he is jumping on freshly put ward? You might as well consider his W a better version of Ezreal's E. Bigger range, lower cooldown, good combination with other parts of his kit: either ult you, ult+flash you for complete screwing combo, or just Q from a new position which you can't dodge properly. And im totally fine with this if you give me more time to react to his move: make his W jump speed closer to Braum jump, or even slower.
His Q recast range. Basically, he can Q you, walk away, then recast it from a safe distance. Remember, that if he hit his Q, you can't outrun him due to MS advantage he got on you, and if you magically do leave recast range, he always can wardjump with his W back into recast range. Lowering recast range even by 100 would make a huge difference i believe.

Ariel the CruelJan 11, 20173 votes

Lee's base damage may not be the problem, but it is most defiantly a problem. It's more than they've done to him in a long time. and more than most of us expected them to ever do.

Sire HippingtonJan 10, 20172 votes

To be fair, with all the mechanics he has, his numbers are just to high and nerfing his burst isn't the worst idea. However, i personally would prefer him finally loosing the wardstep and then getting buffed to a decent spot from there.

Captainn GinyuJan 11, 20172 votes

hilarious enough his ult still hits like a god damn truck not much of a nerf

ZT XperimentorJan 11, 20172 votes

Leesin was the forerunner for the mobility creep; and riot's double standards regarding balancing have only escalated these related problems.

LunieJan 11, 20172 votes

These lee sin nerfs are retarded. If anything we're going to see the change reverted or the champion buffed in a coming patch.

Lee Sin has a high skill cap. The champion falls off late game. He has to execute difficult maneuvers to be worth the pick. Yet now, Riot wants to nerf his ult because it's too strong? HELLO? You have to get into range to use it. If you're behind, a gank becomes even harder.

I don't know Riot. You guys fuck jungle up every season. These lee sin nerfs seem more like: we don't like how often he is being picked let's nerf him to psychologically reduce the number of lee sin picks.

DreadlocksJan 10, 20171 votes

they like lee having utility and being strong early. so they are nerfing his dmg so they can keep his uniqueness in the kit, and still be strong early and fall off later like he historically has.

GigglesOJan 10, 20171 votes

Too bad tanks also don't exist in the game. I really think that if Riot wants to balance the game then we need tanks that don't deal damage, but actually tank. I'm talking 0 damage 300hp/second regen, with 4k hp and 300 armor and MR. Even old 10k hp Chogath would work.

AnagsJan 10, 20173 votes

Except no one wants to play that type of champion. Who wants to play a massive tank that is just ignored the entire time and watches his team die. This similar to what a support tank does currently but even worse and it would be the only position that they could possibly play. This just won't work.

RocketRelmJan 11, 20172 votes

300hp/second regen tanks, 4k HP, 300 AR/MR? Dealing literally 0 damage? Long as I can apply CC with that, sign me the fuck up. Nautilus

xelakerJan 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Too bad tanks also don't exist in the game. I really think that if Riot wants to balance the game then we need tanks that don't deal damage, but actually tank. I'm talking 0 damage 300hp/second regen, with 4k hp and 300 armor and MR. Even old 10k hp Chogath would work.

cry in the tank thread scrub, this one's bout lee

ElishevaJan 11, 20171 votes

What do you expect when you let a bunch of silver players balance the game. RIP jg.

ShadowParkerJan 11, 20171 votes

I don't understand boards.

One of the major complaints about Lee was the insane base damage on his ultimate. Now you're mad because it got nerfed and that it's the "wrong thing to nerf"?

Hm.

LegendmakerGXJan 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I don't understand boards.

One of the major complaints about Lee was the insane base damage on his ultimate. Now you're mad because it got nerfed and that it's the "wrong thing to nerf"?

Hm.

??? One of them but that ult damage was practically the last on the list, was his ult really the problem? I for one know that the problem was his B.S Q then ward hop/flash to instantly stun/knock you back because he has high mobility and rarely a chance to dodge his skill shot since it is fast which does damage.

ShadowParkerJan 11, 20171 votes

Haha no. It's always been a problem. It's complained about all the time. To say it isn't, or that's even one of the last reasons, is false.

AnagsJan 19, 20171 votes

The problem was that he could walk up to dive someone at a tower and press R,Q,Q for a kill. And he was doing that without building full damage. The ult nerf didn't make Lee Sin bad. And his ult is by far and away his strongest ability.

Hayaishi2Jan 11, 20171 votes

Season 7 and boards still crying about Lee sin.

You'd think they would have gotten good by now.

TyroneWatermelonJan 11, 20171 votes

His ult's damage IS one of the problems.

EROTIC RAID BOSSJan 11, 20171 votes

the ult made his ganks early in the game super easy and devastating. exacerbated by how the new jg made it possible for him to get really ahead, but still, kinda crazy good.

a lot of high elo streamers pointed to his ult's damage specifically as one of the biggest issues with him

BeatzBoyFTWJan 11, 20171 votes

Well it lowers the potential of him one-shotting people with his QRQ or RQQ combo. But other than that, I'm also expecting his Q initial damage or his W's lifesteal/spell vamp to be toned down.

UltîmaJan 11, 20171 votes

His ult damage WAS crazy though. 600 + 2.0 AD ratio? How the hell are you saying that this nerf was unjustified, or otherwise unnessessary? Threads like these show why the community is out of touch with the game. Lee Sin's entire identity is focused around his hyper mobility, counterjungling and ganking potential. The balance team decided that he didn't also need to one-shot people. Imo that's not an idiotic train of thought like some of you would like to claim. Maybe wait a patch to see the effect of this nerf; I garantee you that it will have a solid impact.