Now that I lost my 20% bonus damage to monsters, Graves: Clears faster Scales better Ganks better Clears healthier Counter jungles better Is ranged Pokes better Kites better Has CC in his base kit Duels better Is also tanky Just as mobile Lifesteals better
What exact tools do I have as Shyvana that make her worth picking over Graves?
LankPants11 votesWhy would I pick almost anyone over Graves right now? He has one of the best clears in the game and probably the best scaling of any jungler. His ganks are surprisingly solid, he duels well early, can tank objectives and is super safe with his dash and "oh shit I fucked up" R.
There's no reason not to pick Graves right now, well I guess there's "I like my bullshit Blind Monk flavoured" but really, meta junglers are just out of hand.
Redhood Mon8 votesbut she has boobs...
Tychusfindlay9193 votes[{quoted}](name=Redhood Mon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0Pmu3FH9,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2017-02-17T10:45:53.811+0000)
but she has boobs...
They only get you so far... really far... But not far enough, but still pretty far.
Big Lincoln7 votesriot is trying to phase melee carries out of the game of course
just accept your new ranged AD overlord
TyrekGoldenspear6 votesLet me guess. Lethality Graves?
Cuz most of these differences were already here. With the possible exception of clear spees.
IIRC, becuase of how Graves' autoes are coded, ninja tabi is quite effective against him.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo5 votesyou shouldnt... the rework to shy at best was a joke... and not a funny one
i know you love the champ but she is been trash tier for ever....
at least 10 junglers are better then her just from the start of the game
Mira Arya Enthe4 votesYeh but all my champs are bad. Ashe is 46.6% win rate. Malz got a bad rework. Teemo is always trash. Leona is a tank support who suck right now. ;~;
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesi rock leona
i was making so many plays on her last night lol
5-6-24
Brain Errör 4041 votesYou're welcome (grammatically, this really irks me as it still makes no sense).
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 voteswhat makes no sense ?
and im welcome ?
you got carried by a support so suck it
xWaters2 votesLeona doesn't suck. Tank supports are always useful.
AMYS GRAVE3 votesNaut is strictly a better version of Leona in every way right now.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votesyes and no... it just depends..
oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 voteshey some of my fav champs are bad too... nunu, galio , garen
Jeddy0174 votes"Why would I ever pick Shyvana over Graves?"
Shyvana can actually smoke, Graves can't. (Make bad joke involving overused & likely dead meme, check)
Handy Sandy 3 votesGraves doesn't have as good as an engage for teamfights as Shyvana, he isn't a good champion to tank for your team.
Mira Arya Enthe4 votesShyvana... tank... Shyvana... engage team fights... lol
Shyvana serves the same role on a team that Graves does, AoE damage, cleanup, flanking, split pushing and blowing up squishies. She has no CC and her tanking steroid is not sufficient to be a primary engage. Her ult is not a good engagement tool it is good for cleanup, flanking, chasing after fights and escaping.
Handy Sandy 4 votesShyvana... tank... Shyvana... engage team fights... lol
I always thought shyv's role in a team was to just build full tank and ult in when she finds good opening where enemies are clustered together t_t
At least that's what the ones I have on my team/playing against do.
Sire Hippington6 votesThats what worked well in season 2 and ins S3/4 if ahead, but right now she dies far to fast and has to little imidiate impact to be primary engage. And even in previous season, unless you head a oriana or lulu, shy always was better of following up on another primary engage, ulting into the backline while everyone is distracted from the main engage so she actually has some time to put her kit to work instead of instantly getting peeled off and remaining rather usless for the rest of the fight.
Heroquet2 votesThat was when her W was 20% stronger and her base Q damage was 80% AD at level 1. There she was able to do relevant aoe damage over time while building tank heavy to stay alive a long time.
Then her W base damage got reduced by 20% and she got 20% increased damage against monsters to compensate (and now it's gone without any compensation).
Her lvl 1 Q got heavily reduced in the devorer era.
Those nerfs to her base damage made her tanky builds quite... ignorable. Nowadays it's better to build hybrid-offensive items on her, with her usual affinity for AS / on-hit affecting her itemisation. Items like triforce, wit's ends, botrk, titanic, bloodrazor. You pick between 2 to 4 of these according to how fed you are + your preferences and fill the rest with tank items. That way you can burst the squishy damage dealers if you manage to jump on them, unleash very heavy aoe damage in their backline, take the focus for a few secs and have your team do it's job.
Right now i go 2 HP / offense items (usually bloodrazor and tri') + T2 boots, then two tank items, then another offense one in most of my games. Wits ends being my favorite last slot item unless they're low on ap.
LankPants3 votesNot gonna lie, I think a Graves Eing into a fight and dying would find ways to be marginally more useful than a Shyvana ulting in and dying, that's all either of them will do if they try to engage a fight right now, but at least a Graves has a fuckton of burst while he goes down.
RoflLizard3 votesThe answer is simple,you dont.
Now go play Rengar and warwick like riot wants.
Welcome,to the burst/tank assassin meta.
PermabannedGaren2 votes[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0Pmu3FH9,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-02-16T22:39:06.392+0000)
Now that I lost my 20% bonus damage to monsters, Graves: Clears faster
Probably.
Scales better
No, at best it's about even, but statistically Graves falls off harder than Shyvana. This meme that Graves hyperscales into late game is not and never has been true. He's an early game champion who falls off late game.
Ganks better
Maybe a little. His early game ganks aren't particularly good IMHO.
Clears healthier
Probably.
Counter jungles better
Perhaps.
Is ranged
Yes.
Pokes better
Sure.
Kites better
Graves doesn't kite, he wants to rub his chest against you.
Has CC in his base kit
Sure I guess.
Duels better
No, not even close. There might be some points in the game where Graves might be better 1v1 than Shyvana, but for most of the game and as the game goes on Shyvana is a much better duelist. Graves' dueling is incredibly overrated. His low DPS and lack of ways to stop the enemy from beating his fucking ass make him fall off against champions who can weather his burst and DPS him down. Shyvana falls into that camp, and she can actually potentially fight someone like Yasuo, whereas Graves just gets creamed if he doesn't have a solid lead.
Is also tanky
Now you're just being disingenuous. Why not address how his durability compares to Shyvana's, like how you did with every other category? It's not even close. Shyvana is tankier than Graves. Graves has the better best case scenario (in that, if he fully stacks it) tank steroid sure, but that's to compensate for the fact that Graves needs to build a lot of damage items to actually deal damage. Shyvana has enough damage packed into her kit that she can build like two damage items then full tank and be a damage threat. And the 120 resists Graves gets don't compare to the tank stats Shyvana builds that combine with tank passives like randuin's omen or ninja tabi, or the health that they bring.
Just as mobile
No, not really. Graves can't bypass the front line the way Shyvana can with her ult, and then stick with her W. Shyvana is more mobile.
Lifesteals better
Yeah I guess he does build life steal and she doesn't. Shyvana uses on-hits better.
What exact tools do I have as Shyvana that make her worth picking over Graves?
Honestly? Not much, Graves is frankly a superior pick overall and was brought back into the meta hard with the lethality buffs.
Shyvana isn't particularly bad though. She's somewhat mediocre, but not nearly on par with actual pieces of shit like Master Yi, Lucian, Cho'gath, or Azir.
Shyvana is still a binary champion. Her ability to win depends on one question: can I kill the enemy ADC before I am inevitably peeled off of them? If the answer is yes, she's overbearing, so she has to be kept in a somewhat weak state. Her rework made her a bit better and was a nice thing to patch her up until she finally gets a real rework.
Profirix1 votesI like the honesty. The final quotation reply made me lol.
The Yetii Rider2 votesGraves is not "just as mobile" as Shyvana. Graves has lower base MS than Shyvana and Shyvana has a low cooldown MS buff. Trinity Force, Dead Man's Plate, Blade of the Ruined King, and Boots of Swiftness/Mobility are all excellent items on her, each increasing her MS further.
And because Shyvana has greater map mobility than Graves, she is the better counter jungler.
Anyway to answer your question it's because A) Graves can't benefit nearly as well from attack speed builds, so while he scales "harder" than Shyvana, they scale in very different ways. In particular, high AS builds are very good at cleaning up fights because you deal each instance of damage much faster than a champion who has high AD (or needs to reload) and B) those thighs in her base splash art.
zaire902 votescause anime tiddies
Penns1 votesGraves doesnt gank better and that mini slow barely counts as cc tho. Wouldnt say he scales or duels better either. I mean, Shyv is basically a tank and Graves is a carry, so..
Mira Arya Enthe1 votesShyvana is formerly a fighter, now a Juggernaut Diver hybrid.,
Linna Excel1 votesThe only difference is Shyvana gets bloodrazor. So yay?
AMYS GRAVE1 votesWhy would I ever pick X over Y?
Which group of champions is bigger, X or Y?
SiG DxD1 voteslifesteals better hahahahah
Red Wreckage1 votesWhy to pick 
over graves? or 
when graves is a much better and safer assassin?
cemorn1 votesWell, Shyvana's a dragon. Do you need another reason?
Irelia Bot1 votesWhy would you pick Irelia when you can pick Attrox
This was the mentality during season 3.
But serously Riot give Graves hsi Cigar back while nerfing him and say it shows the real world effects of smoking.
Sir Fuzzi1 votesYo do Graves basics count as one hit or multiple for the purposes of TLD?