Small 'Pro'-tip

Mira Arya Enthe··18 votes·1,720 views

Riven's Q and E are effectively 'silenced' by Roots and Grounding effects, as you cannot perform dashes it removes most of her damage, new passive charges and all of her defense in addition to her mobility. Just a helpful hint for those who don't know, using your roots/grounds on Riven is basically a death sentence for her and also cuts her damage and durability massively.

Now go roast some bunnies.

That's all.

42 Comments

Steel Blossom7 votes

But I have to be something better than batshit retarded to do that! That can't be a healthy counterplay!

Troll for Trump5 votes

Or you're someone playing a champ that doesn't have a root or a grounding effect.

Which is basically all of Top Lane, besides Ryze and Maokai

Steel Blossom7 votes

Anything that stops movement stops her spells. Stuns and displacements are fairly common in the top lane, no?

Troll for Trump4 votes

Yes, but to actually shut down her dmg, you either need:

Atk speed slow (she can't weave AAs from passive as well anymore)

Long CC (chained CC, long stun, Long snare)

It's not that all Top laners don't have cc, it's that they don't have enough to deal with her effectively.

Old Darius had an atk speed slow, and his E, making him good vs Riven. The lack of delay on his Q helped too, for instance.

New Darius still has the E to disrupt her 3rd Q, but the other changes make it so Riven actually counters Darius in high elo.

In regards to the rest of the top lane roster: Renekton Has a stun, but not enough for an extended trade. He's generally bad with extended trades, so that's intended. Not super good vs RIven. Fiora Riposte timing Gangplank No hard cc Yasuo Has CC, but it can't disrupt Riven's comboes. Has windwall to stop her R2nd cast, but she can just EW or Q through it, so... Riven counters Yas Irelia I don't really know Irelia well enough (I've never played her or seen her get fed). Rumble No CC Nautilus Has a fk ton of CC, but gl winning trades against Riven without the jgler Maokai See Naut. Changes on PBE will make him considerably worse at laning. Which is great, I liked playing him jg more anyways Fizz The CC won't disrupt Riven's combo; his E will, if timed correctly. I'd say a skill matchup Kled CC/displacement won't disrupt Riven's combo Kennen Kennen's a solid pick vs Riven, still has to play safe though. Whoever gets the lead first should win the matchup. Shen See Naut, but he has less CC/Displacement than Naut/Mao Jayce The displacement won't disrupt RIven's combo Gragas Could be good, idk, don't really see him top Pantheon I think he can beat RIven by just being Pantheon, but he gets outscaled Malphite Has a nice atk speed slow and nice armor, but no reliable CC to disrupt Riven combo (Basic abilities), Won't kill Riven without the jgler in most cases Jax CC won't disrupt RIven's combo. E will dodge her passive-enhanced AAs though

List goes on.

Most things that have CC/displacement isn't instantaneous due to cast animations or other shenanigans. It has to have virtually no cast time to interrupt the quick combo keyboard mashing of Riven, OR needs to be from afar. Very few champions have access to either of those while being able to trade well with RIven.

By instantaneous CC/displacement, you have: Darius E Gragas W at point blank Lissandra W and R Kennen Passive Chogath W I think can work. The W silence duration is long enough anyways. Annie Passive Ryze Snare

That stuff.

Steel Blossom7 votes

The thing is though, the champs that can't deny Riven's combo usually outtrades Riven pretty hard. Or kites her down by having ranged autos...you gotta remember, when Riven goes in on you, she's fighting you in your wave. That's a huge disadvantage early, and Riven isn't exactly that strong to begin with, especially compared to hardcore all-in champs.

Troll for Trump2 votes

Riven usually doesn't charge in on minions. A good Riven shouldn't. She, like, Yasuo, is squishy. She will go in with minions, but not when there's a giant mass of them around her. Juggernauts or Divers can do that because they're more tanky, but Riven can't. In addition, Riven has a much stronger disengage than most top lane champs.

I think there really isn't a single champ that can reliably outtrade a Riven. Or any skirmisher for that matter (Fio/Yas come to mind). Those are all skill matchups, rather than a champ-to-champ thing.

Skirmisher's are basically always skill matchups.

The Whamboozler3 votes

You want me to out-trade a Riven ? Hold on, let me get out my Pantheon . I cut my teeth on him stomping out cocky Riven mains.

Troll for Trump1 votes

I don't really main either of those, but, statistically, in plat+ Riven has about a 50% WR vs Pantheon.

That's nothing super positive, and expected, as RIven outscales Panth.

Panth is a champ that can punish you really hard for mistakes you make early game (like Darius).

So yeah, if the Riven gets cocky, it'll work.

High elo players who know to play the waiting game against Panth?

Not so much of a stomp

The Whamboozler1 votes

Well if we're talking high elo there are only about 15 champs viable in the game overall... and Riven isn't even one of them. Just sheep what the pros and master players are playing and call it a day.

Glory ln Death1 votes

{quoted}

Riven usually doesn't charge in on minions.

Lol! Yeah, good Riven players probably dont, but stereotypical mains are more than happy to go hyper-aggro on you in the middle of a wave.

Especially if you're playing Sion and you "misplace" your Q. Baited :P

Troll for Trump1 votes

Riven dives at lvl 3

"How'd I die wtf Darius is busted"

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

If she never enters your minion wave she cannot kill you. Also...

Skirmisher's are basically always skill matchups

Sounds like a quality to me for the more skilled player to win.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Nope.

There's a difference between entering a full minion wave as a Juggernaut, and being a squishier target.

Any squishy target will take minion aggro when they try to harass or all-in you. Riven, Yas, Teemo, Gnar mini, Kayle, etc.

They play around that. Yes, they have to overextend a little, but they wait for the opportune times. That's part of the skillmatchup part.

Most of these types matchups are based on the skill level of the RIven, not so much how good you are. That's why, in high elo, you see Rivens countering Darius, while it's the other way around in low elo.

Don't forget that she can counterengage you to kill you as well.

If you're saying to not engage, that means you let her outscale.

It's a chicken fight between two passive players, whoever gets the lead first should snowball hard. Any deaths of the person who got the initial lead afterwards is due to them being cocky

Erractic Eick4 votes

I can testify as a Jax main that Riven is one of my less stressful matches. His E is made for countering AA reliant opponents.

While I agree with most of the analysis here (I frequent top lane) I'm not sure if the disrupting the combo part with CC is completely true. Last I recall, I could stun Riven mid-dash, effectively shutting down her and her animation cancelling.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Hmm maybe.

I remember back then Riven was the hardest counter to Jax top.

Maybe that's changed now, I haven't seen a Jax top in forever.

Mira Arya Enthe4 votes

Yet Jayce, Poppy, Fiora, Renekton, Garen(until plat), Pantheon, Kennen, Quinn, Vi and Kled all kick the shit out of Riven.

Top lane tanks cannot kill her unless she is bad but still win by merit of bringing a tank to the team. Farm, make her impatient, punish her if she goes aggro. Win mid game by being a tank.

Most tanks can also rush Tabi and Sunfire to invalidate her damage. Plus the ambient damage lets them outrade her anytime she is in more than 2 seconds.

Malphite, Naut and Maokai should win vs Riven. They won't snowball and kill her over and over but that isn't what tanks do. They provide team CC and lockdown. Also AS slows slow Riven's fast comboing. Some Riven's take some AS for mid game for that reason(see Exil's updated S7 guide).

Riven usually beats people like Darius(not by much), Vlad, Swain, Jax unless he plays passive, Yasuo, Shen(he is crap anyway atm), Gangplank, Sion, Aatrox, Mundo and Rengar.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Yeah, I mentioned this earlier, in the same post

Most things that have CC/displacement isn't instantaneous due to cast animations or other shenanigans. It has to have virtually no cast time to interrupt the quick combo keyboard mashing of Riven, OR needs to be from afar. Very few champions have access to either of those while being able to trade well with RIven.

That covers Pantheon Kennen Renekton Garen and I think Quinn Idk why Kled is super good against her, but I haven't seen enough of him around to make a judgement, so I won't I've never seen a Vi top, except maybe when I first started. But that's way too far back. Poppy obviously counters her because of her W Fiora is always a skillmatchup against any champ IDK why Jayce counters her. I feel like RIven can dumpster him post 6 if she doesn't get too ballsy on him.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Jayce can bully Riven out of EXP range if he is good, out of farm if he is bad. Or in the words of LS when Boxbox went up against a jungle main who was filled into top as Jayce "RIP you."

General Theritt5 votes

Kled is amazing against Riven. He can rapidly outtrade her base attacks if she all-ins him, has the chase potential so those dashes don't mean much unless Riven burns all of her abilities to get out of your range. Grab a item 3071 or a Hydra item, hell, even item 3812 , and you can rapidly sustain and rip her Asunder. Your passive makes you deceptively strong at dueling, and since you have a few frames of invulnerability, you can force Riven to mess up her ultimate execute zones, capatilizing on her mistakes. Garen because silence + ridiculous lategame compared to Riven's damage, and easily can outtrade her early on if he's competent. Zac is a champ I like to take toplane, and he can stomp on Riven because you max Q, max W, and keep your E, that CC + slows and close range damage is hilarious and forces Riven to find a way to sustain her way through the lane, something she can't afford early considering how many core items she needs to build before she can acquire lifesteal. Meanwhile your blobs are easy to acquire and while Riven can try and punish you for catching them, if you're ahead they're trades you can predict and Riven is now forced to duel you again.

Mira Arya Enthe4 votes

Vuldread, is still of the oldschool circlejerk that Riven has no counters(yet is rarely used in proplay because she is easily countered and shut down) and has no counterplay because of her 4 short range dashes that barely amount to more than Shyvana's W for mobility if not for the CC/Shield.

And therefore discussing counters, counterplay and design is taboo.

Which is hilarious because he is a Darius player aka Riven with more bullying power and tankiness but less mobile. Both are hyper aggressive champions of pure physical damage who if they snowball off their lane enemy become super oppressive. Also Darius can build a Deadman's and SRS to cover his 'immobility'. Just one is tankier with better sustained fighting and more free damage, the other is burstier and more mobile.

Troll for Trump1 votes

She has no good counterplay in soloQ besides being squishy, and you building armor.

It's not oldschool circlejerk.

All skirmishers are meant to be that way.

Fiora Yasuo Ekko Riven

Skirmisher/duelist subclass make it so you have little 1v1 options against those champs. To take them out requires a team effort, and that makes them horrible to play against.

Please, tell me what weaknesses does Riven have to set her apart from other champs, that you can take advantage of in a 1v1 scenario

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

Not everyone needs a 'hit me now' alert. That isn't even necessarily ideal counterplay, that is just simple counterplay that anybody can understand without effort. Riven has counterplay that is relevant for what tier she is in. Bronze Riven's will be on an equal footing with bronze top laners, diamond Riven's will be an equal footing with diamond top laners. The better you get at Riven the more you can cover her weaknesses(any champion really) but also the better players you are facing. If anything, that is ideal. A champion should be relevant in every tier by merit of scaling off of skill. Other good examples are Sion, Gangplank and Jhin.

Troll for Trump1 votes

The issue with many top lane champs is that the player ends up being limited by their kit.

Say Darius has a skill potential of 5 and Riven a skill potential of 10.

A player with a skill lvl of 8 will be able to likely beat Darius, who's capped out at 5, while still having room to grow.

Troll for Trump1 votes

I'm horrible at Kled.

I used to play Garen pre-rework as a counter against Riven, but he feels lackluster nowadays.

IDK bout Zac.

I don't have personal problems with laning against Riven, but I still hate her as a champ in general.

I have 0 problems with Lee Sin, too, but definitely understand why people hate him.

General Theritt1 votes

So maybe you should stop speaking like she's horrible as hell to lane against and learn how to play Kled or Zac, and you might need to stop hating Riven, because while she is OBNOXIOUS as hell, I will admit those voicelines and attitude tick me off, just play heavy bruisers or CC tanks that dumpster her, and you'll be fine. And if worst comes to worst, pick Malphite and just wait until lategame where Riven is basically tickling you.

Troll for Trump1 votes

She is horrible to lane against.

Counterpicking isn't counterplay smh

jadelink1 votes

If I see her in ranked, I can do that, and take a pure armour runepage, and back for a chain vest at lvl 4-5. At that point she just doesn't work against you unless you're careless.

Kiokami1 votes

{quoted}

Yes, but to actually shut down her dmg, you either need:

Atk speed slow (she can't weave AAs from passive as well anymore)

Long CC (chained CC, long stun, Long snare)

It's not that all Top laners don't have cc, it's that they don't have enough to deal with her effectively.

Old Darius had an atk speed slow, and his E, making him good vs Riven. The lack of delay on his Q helped too, for instance.

New Darius still has the E to disrupt her 3rd Q, but the other changes make it so Riven actually counters Darius in high elo.

In regards to the rest of the top lane roster: Renekton Has a stun, but not enough for an extended trade. He's generally bad with extended trades, so that's intended. Not super good vs RIven. Fiora Riposte timing Gangplank No hard cc Yasuo Has CC, but it can't disrupt Riven's comboes. Has windwall to stop her R2nd cast, but she can just EW or Q through it, so... Riven counters Yas Irelia I don't really know Irelia well enough (I've never played her or seen her get fed). Rumble No CC Nautilus Has a fk ton of CC, but gl winning trades against Riven without the jgler Maokai See Naut. Changes on PBE will make him considerably worse at laning. Which is great, I liked playing him jg more anyways Fizz The CC won't disrupt Riven's combo; his E will, if timed correctly. I'd say a skill matchup Kled CC/displacement won't disrupt Riven's combo Kennen Kennen's a solid pick vs Riven, still has to play safe though. Whoever gets the lead first should win the matchup. Shen See Naut, but he has less CC/Displacement than Naut/Mao Jayce The displacement won't disrupt RIven's combo Gragas Could be good, idk, don't really see him top Pantheon I think he can beat RIven by just being Pantheon, but he gets outscaled Malphite Has a nice atk speed slow and nice armor, but no reliable CC to disrupt Riven combo (Basic abilities), Won't kill Riven without the jgler in most cases Jax CC won't disrupt RIven's combo. E will dodge her passive-enhanced AAs though

List goes on.

Most things that have CC/displacement isn't instantaneous due to cast animations or other shenanigans. It has to have virtually no cast time to interrupt the quick combo keyboard mashing of Riven, OR needs to be from afar. Very few champions have access to either of those while being able to trade well with RIven.

By instantaneous CC/displacement, you have: Darius E Gragas W at point blank Lissandra W and R Kennen Passive Chogath W I think can work. The W silence duration is long enough anyways. Annie Passive Ryze Snare

That stuff. dude i dont know what you're talking about. a good 5 or 6 of the champs you listed are counters to riven

all you have to do to beat riven soundly is bully her at lvl 1.

once shes down to 70% hp she cant expect to duel you at ANY point. and if she's forced to back before you/without a kill, she's even MORE fucked.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Yeah, that's true.

But most Riven players aren't that dumb

Volibear Boss1 votes

{quoted}

Or you're someone playing a champ that doesn't have a root or a grounding effect.

Which is basically all of Top Lane, besides Ryze and Maokai

Then you hope she fucks up, otherwise you fucked.

Troll for Trump1 votes

Yeah, and I hate that aspect. It's hard to go aggro on these types of champs.

Ideally, every matchup should be 100% equal in every way, but that's only possible through mirror matches. Mirror matches are awesome

Only Play Darius3 votes

Related: Darius ultimate is considered a dash. So once he unlocks his passive Morgana snare him and laugh as he sits there doing nothing.

Ralanr1 votes

So Poppy W can stop Darius ult?

Only Play Darius1 votes

Yes but it won't go on cooldown so unless Poppy flashes out of range during the brief knockup he will just recast it and kill her

TyrekGoldenspear3 votes

Cassiopeia new Riven counter meta.

Oblivious Denial1 votes

You can root a Riven if they flash over it and one shot you with only 2.5 items item 3142 item 3071 item 3133 item 1055 [slayer-jinx-catface]

Mira Arya Enthe2 votes

Nice 50%cdr. Any good Riven since S2 gets 10%cdr from runes(giving up some AD and MR to do so) so that her early game is worth mentioning. You don't build 40% CDR from items.

Also if Riven 'one' shots you with those items alone you were a half HP Ezreal with E and Flash down.

BC even before the nerfs just didn't provide enough AD and Ghostblade is strong but not enough. At full build a full rotation combo from Riven does 2500-3400(depending on item and mastery choices) to a 100 armor no items, actives, passives, runes or masteries target. This is full build ideal combo over 3-4 seconds in melee range with one red drake.

With just BC and Youmous vs a real target she won't be one shotting anything. Unless you mean on a boxbox stream when he is smurfing and 2 items+4 levels up on his enemies.

Oblivious Denial1 votes

When I play vs ap tanks top lane while also against an ap mid, I like to run attack speed quints, Mr blues, ad reds, and armor yellow. I get maw early depending on how the lane goes. But yeah, for most other matchups, I take either 10% flat or scaling cdr. Flat if I know I can win early, scaling if i don't think I can.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

I wouldn't recommend dropping the CDR. The standard Riven build vs mages does switch to scaling CDR since you cannot trade with mahes early and instead of cdr quint and AD quints gets MR with HP in place of armor yellows. But other than that 10%CDR is core to her early game.

If it works for you good on you. But Riven does not one shot with 2.5 items either way. I play Ashe and Soraka and have never been killed in under 2-3 seconds by even fed Riven's. I main Shyvana who is tanky enough to stat check Riven by 20m before that it takes skill to beat Riven.

Velzard of Koz1 votes

How does rooting her put these abilities on cooldown. I don't understand why this is supposed to be a tip, when crowd-controling nearly anyone is a way to kill them. This tip would only be useful in case you wait for Riven to use her Q, CC her somehow for 4 seconds and thus deny her the rest of Q. Otherwise it's like saying "Did you know that putting someone at 0 Health will kill them?"

It's pretty much common sense that immobilizing mobile target will make them weaker.

Mira Arya Enthe3 votes

It doesn't put them on CD but it disables them since they are dashes. Since they are her main damage and tanking skills this means rooting her cuts her damage and tankiness. Plus no new passive charges except off of W.

MillyNotMiley1 votes

Root eh? Xayah :D

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