I can see why they nerfed Quinn

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Garen is pretty much the same he was before except for his ult which was already pretty strong before and now just feels unfair to play against (you are punished for playing well).

Garen is probably weaker now than he was before.

He has a gimicky ass mechanic that usually goes to the ADC towards mid-late which means nothing because garen will never reach them. His Q silence got ripped to shreds and his E is fucking garbage in lane.

He never had his passive reworked so it's still counters his own kit due to it's passive nature compared to his kit's aggressive all-in nature.

The only time garen is good is when the enemy frontline becomes the villain, otherwise he's such a forgettable champion.

Riot gave him a MASSIVE power budget increase FOR FREE in the form of the E buff which gives 25% shred after four ticks and garen still sucks ass, shouldn't that tell you something?

Indeed that's not important, any and everyone who could use Lethality was op throughout the 'Lethality' meta, and she's not the first champion to be OP on release.

Oh ho ho Indeed Indeed. Quite! Oh ho ho!

No, there is a lot of strategic thought it in - Where exactly do you want to be? It's something called positioning, and it's pretty damn difficult, especially for someone who being in a lane alone doesn't mean certain death if a bruiser walks by.

I gave reasons why the ability requires little thought to be used successfully. Give me reasons as to why it requires strategic foresight because I am drawing blanks in all directions. The strategic elements should be something specific to Quinn and not something just all champions consider. Reason being the goal of reworks is to make champions distinct.

Her movespeed is good early-mid, but it's not godly. Many to most assassins have at least ~50% of their damage as targeted damage (or VERY difficult to dodge, cough cough Akali/Kassadin/Zed/Talon/Rengar/Kha), at least with Quinn you need to hit a bodyblockable skillshot directly. The Lethality meta showed glaring issues with everyone's kit. Specifically, those who had some form of CC. It's not overbearing normally, but when they can kill you in half a second, any CC becomes overpowered.

I never said her movement speed was godly but it is the highest in the game. Yeah I'd actually say Quinn was a major benefactor of the lethality changes in comparison to other AD assassins due to her CC, reliable damage, and how she wasn't gated by cooldowns. Blinding assault is a fast moving projectile, probably the same speed as Zed's shuriken so when dodging without minions it's gonna be difficult. When with minions the difference changes but not as much. Quinn has higher movement speed allowing her to position around minions to get the jump on you. I'd say her assassination pattern is similar to Rengar cause he would often try to get off his bola however it isn't entirely necessary because he has a lot of damage else where. Quinn's blinding assault has a low of power in it but wasn't entirely necessary because of skystrike, vault, harrier providing more than enough to put enemies at critical health. At least during the lethality meta.

Old Quinn was a diver/assassin, new Quinn is a skirmisher/marksman. Of course there's a difference.

Old Quinn was a skirmisher/marksmen, it was Valor who was diver/assassin. I would actually say Valor is more skirmisher/assassin like Master Yi, as his kit didn't promote diving straight up necessarily like a Jarvan or Hecarim. The marksman tag will pretty much always stay on her with how she is reliant on auto attacks and how she plays. New Quinn is still skirmisher/marksman but has gotten half of her kit removed with the removal of Valor. Also my point wasn't on "Quinn is different after her rework"but, on how new Quinn is lacking in terms of complexity and gameplay in comparison to old Quinn. My examples tried to show those traits of the old Quinn and how new Quinn is bad.

No it didn't what?

With just [yommus and botrk] she could near instagib any carry, no matter how bad her early game went. Remember that Botrk had a much stronger active back then.

Botrk active did 10% of a targets max health as magic damage, if the enemy has 1200 health than it's only doing 120 damage before resistances which is not a lot. The active was not good early game and wasn't used for damage but for kiting and dueling. Any ad assassin could gib with Yommus and Botrk if ahead, see Zed. Quinn however did not have much AD ratios on her kit, Q and E did okay damage and when you were Valor you did not have harrier but were reliant on attack speed. Unless Quinn was pretty far ahead like an item or so she wasn't instagibbing anyone. In fact I don't ever remember a time Quinn could instagib with just those items unless the enemy was IONS behind.

Let's look at a level 9 Quinn with Yommu's and Botrk...

You had ~100 bonus AD and around 170AD total, Q would deal 305 damage, E would deal 60 damage, R would do at minimum 150 damage. That's ALL you have in terms of abilties. So you dive in with EQ and got off 365 damage before considering resistances, other squishies at level 9 have around 1000 health. You've used TWO abilities to do only 365 damage, the rest of your damage would come from auto attacks. No one is getting instagibed against Quinn with just botrk and yommus. You would have to get in at least 3 more auto attacks and use R again to get a kill. Mind you none of my rough calculations consider armor, most squishies have around 40 armor so reduce all physical damage by around 30%.

Once more Quinn would only be able to instantly kill if she was ahead by a significant amount and in that case any champion that had that build could instagib any carry. Regardless if you think Quinn could instagib I would point you towards LeBlanc. Old LeBlanc could just Q R and get a squishy to 10%, in games where she was ahead that is all she needed to kill and LeBlanc was great at snowballing. There are very few instances where Quinn could instantly kill a squishy unless we are talking about late game but by that point all squishies instantly kill each other.

However, her teamfighting was much worse than it is now.

How is her teamfighting any worse than it is now? None of her abilities changed significantly enough to make her teamfighting better. You can argue that nearsight is a thing now but so was AoE blind, both have different uses in a teamfight and are not that comparable.

An EZ that's behind still has his godly poke and kiting, but Quinn offered nothing since her ult forced her to commit to trades.

An Ezreal that's behind does not have Godly poke. Any carry can kite when behind, Caitlyn can kite when behind but she won't deal damage, Jinx can kite when behind but won't deal damage. Quinn is exactly the same albeit she actually has utility in her Q which gives her some leverage over others. Also if Ezreal did have godly poke he'd have a much higher winrate than he does now and would be picked more in the professional scene because he has overall great damage but that is not the case. Like where are you getting these thoughts coming from?

How can you blatantly say Quinn offered nothing when she has an AoE blind, that is huge in teamfights. Even if you don't do much damage you could stop the enemy from any on-hit damage. Also Valor gave her some power with his massive A/S boost and the ultimate would still allow for cross map plays although with more restrictions. As should be with all ultimate ability, restrictions and meaningful use. As I mentioned earlier knowing how to use her ultimate in all it's different ways separated good Quinn players from bad ones. You saying her ultimate was only good for forcing fights is telling me a lot.

Quinn did NOT kill your whole team when ahead what the hell? You're actually pissing me off with these exaggerations.

Her playstyle isn't that much different now. The main difference is that her current ult gives her more options for exploiting a team's lack of coordination, as well as providing stronger split-push tactics.

Give any champion a teleport without CD and they can exploit team's lacking coordination and splitpush effectively. As I said earlier; it's niche but it's not engaging, it's not strategic and it's not fun.

I don't think her Q/W/E skills need changed, but I'm all for her getting a new ult as long as it's a utility-based skill.

I agree in that all of those abilities are pretty unique and shape Quinn's champion to some extent. Perhaps blinding assault and heightened senses active could be done better though. Why does her ultimate need to be a utility-based skill, that shouldn't be a focus if it comes to changing Quinn. Riot should focus on implementing more of Valor in her kit and remove his beyond stupid Taxi playstyle.

It's so stupid. It's beyond stupid. I wish my vocabulary was stronger so I could really describe how stupid her ultimate is.

The crit scaling on Harrier should also be replaced with a more reliable stat, as she doesn't really need crit to do her job.

Whatever is all I have to say to this. Crit is to get her to play like an ADC, allows her to benefit from building it, and acts as tool to curve her power. That's the reason why it's there, it also scales with AD so I don't know what other stat you would want it to scale with? Mana regen? Like... Whatever.

That's fair. I wouldn't disagree with her getting some other form of engage or at least another way to gain movement speed. But they should at least do something cooler with Valor. Maybe if the ultimate caused Valor to scout around and marking enemies for Quinn (even in the fog of war), this could even give her movement speed when moving towards marked enemies, I'm just spitballing here, I'm not sure what the best change to make would be.