Possible Zed change that could make him more bearable in lane

GrReaper96·Jun 25, 2018·21 votes·6,390 views

One thing i notice about Zed is that if he lands his WE and both Qs on you it procs elec. So what if it was changed so that Zeds Q and the shadows Q count as one skill? That way his WEQ combo in lane wouldnt be able to proc elec and he would actually have to go in and aa you for the elec proc? I mean other 2-hit skills like Lucians passive and any tether skill only count as one so why should Zeds Q count as 2? This would at least make him have to take more risk in lane rather then safely poing you for tons from afar.

47 Comments

Emo TwinkJun 25, 201812 votes

Lux passive doesnt count as 2 yet Zed Q can..

report yasuoJun 25, 20181 votes

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M00ndanc3Jun 25, 20186 votes

it use to but now it doesnt. you can't just E aa to proc it like thunderlords, you have to either aa e aa or land your q or r in there

Emo TwinkJun 25, 20181 votes

yeah, but her passive is on the target, not a on-hit effect or anything say like More Sparkles Zoe , so it really should proc electrocute. Anyway, Zed shouldn't proc it since it's both on the Q, but Lux should and thats tea. [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

AmazoXJun 25, 20182 votes

{quoted}

it use to but now it doesnt. you can't just E aa to proc it like thunderlords, you have to either aa e aa or land your q or r in there

Because landing ONE skill and auto attacking from afar was totally fair at procing thunderlords

M00ndanc3Jun 25, 20181 votes

never said it was, i remember when gp, mf and morgana would take it just for free poke becaus ethey could get it off with one ability

Daddy AntsJun 25, 20189 votes

{quoted}

Lux passive doesnt count as 2 yet Zed Q can..

Because landing an E then auto attacking was an extremely fair way to proc the old thunderlords.

Troll for TrumpJun 25, 20182 votes

cuz you have to effectively land 2 skillshots. This does help balance zed a bit in lane but it will mess up his lategame harass.

The thing with zed and all assassins is that there are a million ways to make an assassin fair for the opponents. There are also a million ways to make an assassin fun. But there's rarely ever a solution that satisfies both parties.

And that's basically why assassins are always either so bad or so good

Zed geniusJun 25, 201810 votes

The main reason zed takes electrocute is the early game damage it gives from this combo. If you take away the option for zed to go for electrocute then what the hell is he going to take? Phase Rush?

Spank the FoxJun 25, 20186 votes

Are you serious? Zed will still continue to take Electrocute, the change is to make him commit harder by having to auto.

Even if it were to be changed like it was outlined in the OP, he would still pick Electrocute because of his ultimate and because it is by far the best rune for burst damage.

I don’t care about Zed one way or another but you thinking somehow this will make the rune unviable on Zed is hilarious.

bbQsauçeJun 25, 20186 votes

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mzicioJun 25, 20184 votes

Zed in his current state is unacceptable.

He is and will continue to be the reason I'll never touch mid again, until they fucking do something about him being effective at all ranges and having so many safety nets despite being a "high skillfloor" champion.

bbQsauçeJun 25, 20184 votes

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mzicioJun 25, 20181 votes

Alright since you're probably a 1m Zed main diamond player please tell me what are Zed's weaknesses and how I should play to counter him and get to the mid game safely.

bbQsauçeJun 25, 20183 votes

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Emo TwinkJun 25, 20181 votes

do you not see how much of a chore he is to go against? We have to delay more important purchases, and give up magic pen, just for one champion for the chance we're not killed at level 6. And, assuming he has poked us down slightly at least in lane, its an easy kill with his ult and electrocute. Been killed a lot by him even when he's missed his qs just cuz of his ult, e, and electrocute +duskblade auto. Seekers and tabis wont defend us much from that.

bbQsauçeJun 25, 20182 votes

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Emo TwinkJun 25, 20181 votes

He can build mercs without any issue, mages need the pen to be relevant damage wise. Then opting into Seekers too just for the chance of surviving, and then we struggle to waveclear with less ap and mana. On top of that, we'll struggle to fight back. Meanwhile Zed going hexdrinker mercs, he gets to completely survive any counter attack, and suffers little damage or waveclear wise because theres no lethality boots, and he can sit on hexdrinker and be fine.

And once he comes out of ult, we cant one shot him because of seekers. Yikes were just asking for him not to proc electrocute so easily. Hes so unbearable in lane.

mzicioJun 26, 20181 votes

Alright, this is a good answer. Thank you.

Emo TwinkJun 25, 20181 votes

He's one of the best midlaners atm and yet people like to think hes bad

Spank the FoxJun 25, 20181 votes

Wow great points you brought up. Thanks for your contribution.

Sexy Jack RabbitJun 25, 20185 votes

WOAH! A MELEE ASSASSIN HAVING TO GO INTO MELEE RANGE IN ORDER TO GET FULL DAMAGE??!!?

Fucking outrageous.

King BraumJun 25, 20181 votes

while i agree i must say, is it really a problem for zed to not have burst through out literally the entire game? zed doesnt fall off in damage in most cases and through out the entire game he seems to be strong and able to fulfill his role as assassin, would it really be bad to take away some of the power of his strong early game so that he could still be opressive during his level 3 but only gain his real power from his 6 spike.

Zed geniusJun 25, 20181 votes

You are right.Zed's damage doesn't fall off. The reason Zed falls off hard lategame is because it is real hard to get your damage off in lategame before getting one shot by literally anything if u even manage to get to ur targets. If you take away damage sources from him, he will literally be there just to give vision for his team

bbQsauçeJun 25, 20181 votes

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King BraumJun 25, 20181 votes

yes that's what im saying, if the change was made to not have electrocute proc on a WEQ, it would take away the insane damage from level 3 but still keep him an opressive champion in lane, his damage would be reduced at level 3 and his main chunk of damage would come from 6 instead.

he would essentially be able to do the same things he is able to do now with the only change being that he wouldnt be able to mindlessly bully people lane out with a single three hit combo but still be able to punish champions

KloakJun 25, 20187 votes

That's actually a pretty decent change. Have my updoot.

IcyPepperJun 25, 20187 votes

I mean, it sounds like a decent change, but it still requires him to blow three spells in order to land that whole combo (and he has to land the W's Q on top of his personal shuriken).

Zed is frustrating at times, but I'm not sure if it's fair to the Zed player since they have to land two skillshots at once. If you're at a distance away from him, he still needs to aim and hit you. Otherwise, he's probably close enough to W again and AA you. Maybe. I'm not entirely sure. Is it super easy to land the shadow's Q on his opponent in addition to his personal Q during the laning phase?

LacerationJun 25, 20187 votes

You think Zed needs nerfs? you must be joking

mzicioJun 25, 20182 votes

You think Zed is currently fair to play against? YOU must be joking.

Handin Out NapsJun 25, 20185 votes

I think he just doesnt play against bad players. Its a common misconception that Zed is broken and its not your own skill level that is bad. Its hard for players to admit that they arent that great, and against champions like Zed that can punish mistakes it seems to be more evident. :/.

mzicioJun 25, 20182 votes

Draw a line between OP and broken. OP is numerical strenght, broken is toxic and hard to balance kit ( Azir Yasuo Ryze ).

He is currently the best assassin in the game, he always floats around 50% winrate even at high elo and he's receiving continuous buffs. I like to play mages mid and I'd like not to delay my powerspike to get Zhonya's. In case I'm doing good, he can just get Maw plus MR boots which greatly outshines Zhonya and Tabis.

I physically refuse to say I'm bad. I'm sorry, but I'm not. Zed is unfair against one whole class of champions, he's like Lissandra for assassins.

I'm not ok with him being in the game in his current state. Downvote me as much as you want, it doesn't make you right because yours are opinions and i'm bringing facts.

bbQsauçeJun 25, 20181 votes

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mzicioJun 26, 20181 votes

I'm one salty boi, yes.

item 3155 > item 3191

Handin Out NapsJun 25, 20182 votes

Draw a line between OP and broken. OP is numerical strenght, broken is toxic and hard to balance kit

Completely irrelevant to this. You understand what I'm saying.

He is currently the best assassin in the game, he always floats around 50% win rate even at high elo and he's receiving continuous buffs. I like to play mages mid and I'd like not to delay my power spike to get Zhonya's. In case I'm doing good, he can just get Maw plus MR boots which greatly outshines Zhonya and Tabis.

That's just wrong, both Rengar and Talon are way better than Zed. A lot of the other assassins are in the same exact place in high elo. He floats around a 50% wr at plat sure. And we cant get a good sample for actual high elo statistics, where he is mostly played by one tricks. He hasn't received buffs since 8.7 and all those changes were because duskblade was nerfed and assassins weren't even in a good spot at the time.

I dont even see you playing mid lane on your account, and if you for some reason have another account where you play those mages that you love to play so much I have some simple things that I'd like to explain. You are a mage, you dont spike like an assassin, you don't have the same need to snowball as an assassin. You can play the smart game and take resolve/buy armor. One cloth armor completely negates the lethality of serrated dirk. Armguard just makes you almost impossible to kill unless you are just not dodging any harass and getting poked into kill range. Every good mage player will build armguard and probably take resolve to completely deny Zed's kill pressure. If you dont let Zed snowball you are already winning. And honestly I dont understand this commotion about Hexdrinker, I haven't built hexdrinker in years, and haven't seen good Zed players build hexdrinker in a long ass time because of how it slows down your spikes.

I physically refuse to say I'm bad. I'm sorry, but I'm not. Zed is unfair against one whole class of champions, he's like Lissandra for assassins.

Well again I'm sorry but you are silver, you aren't actually good at the game. As much as you physically refuse to admit it, its true you aren't very good. The fact that you are complaining about laning against Zed just further proves that you aren't a good player. Zed does't counter a whole class of champions, you are just refusing to use the options given to you and are probably just not the better player. Actual high elo Zed players like LL Stylish and Laceration say he is bad. One of the best solo q players in the world Apdo says Zed is terrible. Shit if you ask any high elo Twisted Fate player they will probably say that Zed is an easy lane. And Twisted Fate has historically been one of the easier lanes for Zed.

I'm not ok with him being in the game in his current state. Down vote me as much as you want, it doesn't make you right because yours are opinions and i'm bringing facts.

That's fine, you don't have to be. You are low elo after all, you dont actually understand much about the game so most of your complaints are just wrong. And btw I don't use the vote system, haven't used it in years to be honest. I've always hated it.

mzicioJun 26, 20181 votes

You don't see me playing midlane because I decided to quit it.

Since you are so good at looking at my OP.GG, check when I last played a ranked game. I think it was two months ago, and I did climb from B3 to S4 in about three days with a 60% winrate (or even more) because, guess what, I'm currently in a division that's lower than my actual skill level. I'm currently playing normals with friends that cannot even draft.

I see various people bringing up determination as a viable secondary against assassins, and I honestly never tried that. Literally never tought it was a thing, that bonus AS Alacrity gives is spicy on Azir and switching it out feels weird. Gonna give it a try.

LacerationJun 26, 20181 votes

If you want to start bringing facts Talon is the best assassin in the game right now, Zed is the worst. You can verify this on a number of statistical lol sites which makes it fact. I hate to say it but you are bad if you are losing to merc + hex rush. That build has 0 kill pressure and is just to survive a losing lane. If you face someone who rushes MR that means you need to buy voidstaff before you can get kill pressure again. It's also the exact same thing if an AD champ faces armor rush. They need proper pen items in order to have kill pressure again (which is 3items at best) so it's fair if not a lot more favored for the mage since mages don't have to be able to 1shot to be useful where as assassins tend to be all or nothing champions.

If you think for some reason you disrespect an AD assassins and don't get a seekers earlygame, you better be faker with godlike positioning or else you will get 1shot by champions designed to do that. The balance here is you need to sacrifice that feel good build you enjoy to safety in the early-midgame.

You may not be "bad" however you are definitely naive to think you shouldn't have to buy defensive when all of highelo and pro play does.

AmazoXJun 25, 20186 votes

You wanna gut the champion and make him lose every lane match up? Not even exaggerating, how wold YOU play Zed Vs Mid Lane champions of your damage was pathetic and you automatically lost every trade with the enemy because you switched to your W Shadow and auto attacked to trigger your electrocute but took a hefty amount of damage from minions who would block your way back to your tower because the pathing in this game can be pretty dumb often at times while taking another hit to your HP by the enemy for free and opening yourself to ganks.

#Tell me how?

Sexy Jack RabbitJun 25, 20182 votes

Yeah I was thinking about this the other day.

Why does Zed get a free pass on this but champions like Zoe don't?

ZedUsanGovosJun 25, 20181 votes

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HalcyonDwellerJun 25, 20182 votes

You're acting like you're superior to people just because they made a decision you disagree with....

That's way more yikes than they are.

(Didn't upvote the OP by the way.)

memyers13Jun 26, 20181 votes

Im a bronze 2 lux main and I think zed could use a buff. I would rather play lux into zed than any other assassin ATM. Zhonyas is such a gigantic counter to him and such a useful item in general. Even still I often don't need to get seekers until after I finish ludens. I should add, I will trade, but I'm not going to try and fight an assassin. It's not a control mages job to run around and get a bunch of kills stacking megias. It's a control mages job to control the lane and create pressure.

When I first started playing in season 6 zed seemed a lot stronger. I learned to play against him, I got used to playing around his kit, pushing lane to punish his roams, and playing really safe, because after all, he's an assassin, and their role is to literally just kill squishies repeatedly. The counter play is simply not to give them the chance.