I have no idea why it's changed to scale with level. It's supposed to be an early game item, like who the gives a S* about 50 damage per second at lv18? but scaling with level make it inefficient to rush either. It just feel like its' not a worthy option at any point of the game, neither early nor late. Can we change it back to flat damage?
Jbels31 votesIt was changed that way specifically because it was being taken in the early game. In top lane, whoever got to sunfire cape first won the lane, because now every 5 second of fighting, the other guy is taking 250 magic damage, which is an entire spell's worth of damage
Very Hard Engage14 votesIt was changed that way specifically because it was being taken in the early game. In top lane, whoever got to sunfire cape first won the lane, because now every 5 second of fighting, the other guy is taking 250 magic damage, which is an entire spell's worth of damage
except resistances still apply* its not true damage*
Pierce The Veal5 votesexcept resistances still apply* its not true damage*
Neither are most spells
Very Hard Engage4 votesNeither are most spells
mages build pen, tanks dont.
in addition over 5 seconds the mage most likely has another cast available offering 2x, if not much more, than sunfire cape.
Steelflame7 votesSunfire wasn't built to help a tank kill a mage. It was built to make a tank shred another tank in top where long slug-fest were reasonable. Sunfire's entire purpose was "Ok, I just have to keep the trade running, and not let them run, and I automatically win it!" type of deal.
I played back then in the METAgolem era for top laners, trust me, the Cape of Suns was very..... irritating. Rush it, or lose, in the top lane extended trades (Because 1-2 second "burst" trade was lucky to scrape off 10% of the enemy's HP bar back then, when resistances were common and %health damage/armor shred non-existant.
CoolHandJack1 votesIf I remember correctly in the MetaGolem era Sunfire was 4th or 5th item pick-up, not something you rushed. I believe it went Triforce, Warmog's/Frozen Mallet, Atma's, Warmog's/Frozen mallet(which ever you didn't pick up 2nd) and then Sunfire.
ProfDrDeath5 votesExcept that most champions that used old Sunfire Cape to great effect either build MPen in their runes (
) or were primarily physical damage dealers (
).
Very Hard Engage23 votescant help you people, they bought no, or next to no damage, and old sunfire was a pittance compared to what any other ADC or mage has the potential to put out. see jinx rockets, crit all 5x members for 900+ damage.
old sunfire was perfectly balanced and great even as a rush item. im sorry you dont like dieing to tanks, but guess what, its not the tank that beats you, its your improper itemization that gets you killed. he builds sunfire? how about you build some magic damage? or even a cleaver if you're a die hard must build AD person, then you can still win. or how about he has sunfire, so hes pushing by default because he cant turn it off, and as a result he exposes himself, and you get a gank on him?
maybe, just maybe, you should stop trying to 1v1 all in him and accept he reached a powerspike and you need to approach a different method of killing him.
no?
too difficult for you?
the item was not oppressive, you just didn't know how to handle it.
Lithium Rosa8 votesYeah totally agree, I like the old sunfire and think it's well balanced
Cosnirak4 votes"its your improper itemization that gets you killed. he builds sunfire? how about you build some magic damage?"
Tell me, how exactly does a physical damage based champion 'build magic damage?' Are you saying that the answer to old sunfire cape was to... get your own sunfire cape?
I'm not saying I think old sunfire was too good, because honestly I'm not sure. Just keep in mind that an item that makes you a bit tankier coming with damage by doing what you'd already want to be doing has the potential to easily get out of hand. Especially when that damage doesn't stop just because you're stunned, is aoe, and punishes the enemy for not focusing down the tank first.
Elkington IV1 votesI agree.
However, the reality is that DPS players make up the majority of the playerbase. Thus, they will always get priority and special treatment when it comes to balancing. In comparison, tanks are the least played so it's "okay" that they have items that border between situational and useless.
DrNova1 votesIt was changed that way specifically because it was being taken in the early game. In top lane, whoever got to sunfire cape first won the lane, because now every 5 second of fighting, the other guy is taking 250 magic damage, which is an entire spell's worth of damage
I'm not sure that sounds horrible to me. I get your point but 5 seconds is a long time.
Shiyo Kozuki1 votesWell now the item isn't built by anyone because it's bad.
Rocky213 votesHa remember the stacking sunfire cape builds?
ChaosThief3 votesEnemy malphite and soraka doing it as well
You know something needs to be fixed when
CaptnJakSparrow1 votesHa remember the stacking sunfire cape builds?
That was actually Kennen's build back in the day lol.
BakugoBestBoy6 votesOk. Roll with this for a sec. Champions that would be interested in 
:
Tanky champs with lots of CC/sticking power who need waveclear/damage and lack other viable options to add it to their kit without basically troll-building. We're looking at you:
There may be a few I missed but this is plenty to get the point across.
Since the nerfs to we have added/reworked the following items, 
So now give zero total f@cks about buying a ** . Leaving us with only as candidates who would be interested in "rushing" a .
Since the nerfs do you know what else has happened? 2 of these guys have gotten signifigant buffs, you don't want them to be any stronger early game. is now a top tier jungler for his ridiculous engage potential, got a skill that scales with max HP.
The only person this leaves realistically is . And you really don't want to give a kickstart to his splitpushing game. It's not a fun meta.
** - I'm not insinuating you would build both items on any one of these champions.
Zedex1 votes does not have weak waveclear...
Secretlolz4 votesMake it so it deals Flat+% of max HP so It's only viable on high health champions BUT it can scale to reach crazy numbers
Catastrop1 votesThis would be nice.
The HeraId2 votesThere is literally never a situation for me unless I am malphite or maokai(and even on him it is just meh), where I will get Sunfire over deadmans right now, because sun fire is just, well to put it frankly, bad. Resistances make the dmg almost non-existent, and dead man's gave better stats, and they have similar price tags, I think that sunfire is like 250 cheaper, which does not warrant getting it at all, because deadman's is better on 90% of people who used sunfire cape.
Pierce The Veal2 votes[{quoted}](name=Hefnd Rikir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0BNK8hnT,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-12-30T22:10:30.976+0000)
There is literally never a situation for me unless I am malphite or maokai(and even on him it is just meh), where I will get Sunfire over deadmans right now, because sun fire is just, well to put it frankly, bad. Resistances make the dmg almost non-existent, and dead man's gave better stats, and they have similar price tags, I think that sunfire is like 250 cheaper, which does not warrant getting it at all, because deadman's is better on 90% of people who used sunfire cape.
Tfw I've been rushing it on mundo every game :/
Am I stupid. Am I...
Baculus3 votesTfw I've been rushing it on mundo every game :/
Am I stupid. Am I...
No. It's cheaper than deadmans, gives about the same stats, does more damage if you don't need deadman's mobility. For those fussing over "BUT RESISTANCES11!!!", it's true that it'll be cut by a third when you get it. So we're talking... 100 damage over five seconds? That's not bad on top of everything else.
Then you figure in what it does for wave clear and the damage it does for teamfights. It's a good pick.
Catastrop1 votesI still rush it on ...or have I been Shen'ning wrong.
manliestdino1 votesOf course you buy it on Shen. Helps with split pushing and you can't clear the wave effectively if you don't have it.
MunchCrunchLunch2 votesit should be 50 true damage to compensate.
Bhagswag6 votesPer second? Are you insane?
Bruiser Fiora incoming.
MunchCrunchLunch3 votesPer second? Are you insane?
Bruiser Fiora incoming.
oh wow. thats ALOT right. 50 per second. how many seconds it takes to kill an average champion with 1800 health. 36 seconds. you'd have to stick to them for 36 seconds to kill them
ChaosThief6 votesThe thing is, even small DoTs do incredible amounts over time. If a tank were to buy this, he could simply stand near an adc to easily deal a spell's worth of damage in 4-6 seconds. And for some tanks, standing near an enemy isn't very hard at all.
And also consider that the champion will still be autoattacking the enemy and using abilities. They will get a free auto every two seconds for doing absolutely nothing.
MunchCrunchLunch1 votesThe thing is, even small DoTs do incredible amounts over time. If a tank were to buy this, he could simply stand near an adc to easily deal a spell's worth of damage in 4-6 seconds. And for some tanks, standing near an enemy isn't very hard at all.
And also consider that the champion will still be autoattacking the enemy and using abilities. They will get a free auto every two seconds for doing absolutely nothing.
i was a tank with like 250 mr and fizz by himself kills me in under 10 seconds
ChaosThief4 votesThat's not relevant to the conversation, nor does it give enough information.
How much health did you have remaining? Max health? How much gold did fizz have, and how much did he spend?
Tossing information around is useless if nothing supports it.
MunchCrunchLunch1 votesThat's not relevant to the conversation, nor does it give enough information.
How much health did you have remaining? Max health? How much gold did fizz have, and how much did he spend?
Tossing information around is useless if nothing supports it.
the point here is. 50 true damage per second isn't a lot. when you have champions that can do 1k true damage per hit like fiora. or vayne with enough AS can potentially do 1k true damage per second. 50 isn't a lot. if they buff it to like 70 magic damage per second. and you get magic pen. you'd essentially do even more damage per second. i don't get the fuckin argument here.
ChaosThief2 votesYou're thinking of the opposite end of the spectrum here, and that is the argument you are missing. In addition, to reinforce your own argument, you use %max HP true damage, which again, needs more information to be proven accurate.
Not all damage in league is done instantly, not every champion is an assassin. Damage over time stacks up massively, even if it's small, and that's the thing you're ignoring. 20 damage can make or break a champion, the same applies to items.
Cosnirak1 votes"the point here is. 50 true damage per second isn't a lot"
250 is. 50x5=250. Remember that Sunfire Cape hits every enemy around you.
Bhagswag1 votesRight because all you do is stand next to champion when you try to kill them.
MunchCrunchLunch1 votesRight because all you do is stand next to champion when you try to kill them.
well whats the point of this fucking thread then?. why dont we have access to true damage from items while other champions just has the luxury of it.
Bhagswag1 votesWorks for my wave clearing needs.
Why don't we have access to blinks from items while other champions just has the luxury of it?
Why don't we have access to long range from items while Caitlyn has the luxury of it?
Why don't we have access to 5 seconds inability of dying in combat from items while tryndamere has the luxury of it?
Why don't we have access to global skillshots from items while other champions just has the luxury of it?
Why don't we...
MunchCrunchLunch1 votesWorks for my wave clearing needs.
Why don't we have access to blinks from items while other champions just has the luxury of it?
Why don't we have access to long range from items while Caitlyn has the luxury of it?
Why don't we have access to 5 seconds inability of dying in combat from items while tryndamere has the luxury of it?
Why don't we have access to global skillshots from items while other champions just has the luxury of it?
Why don't we...
true damage is a stat. just like. magic damage. or ad. that you can get. that makes no sense. your comparing a stat. to a fucking kit style.
Bhagswag1 votesLol. Now you're shifting goal posts.
"while other champions just has the luxury of it."
YOU are saying we should be able to buy true damage because other champions naturally have it. Then why can't I buy a Shen ultimate in the shop too?
FantasySniper2 votesIt used to be flat. But people would rush it and push the lane while punishing anything melee.
It should be changed to a % current HP aura. Tanks themselves don't have a lot of opportunity to fight health-stacking tanks, so why not?
Lithium Rosa2 votesTanks are not supposed to consider killing each other in the first place, but i like the idea current hp damage. However I think some champions buy sunfire exactly for waveclear because they don't have built in waveclear abilities(i.e shen). Oh wait they have Titanic Hydra now, nvm then.
FantasySniper1 votesTell that to Mundo.
Dreadlocks2 votesSeeing as both and 
are kinda shit, why not just combine them, kappa?
Auz the Ripper2 votesI think it should be changed to scale with Max health Something like:
"UNIQUE – IMMOLATE: Deals 1.5% of your max health per second as magic damage to nearby enemies (400 range)."
Scaling the damage off of Max health would make it far more desirable lategame, while keeping it from being opressive earlygame
Lithium Rosa1 votesYeah this actually make sense
Leadpaintchips1 votesThe only problem with that is those champs who already scale well with health, you're giving them significantly more damage with this.
Auz the Ripper1 votesa ratio of 1.5% will give 15 damage per 1000 health. With scaling off of max health, the majority of the damage would come from base health and even a reasonable amount of health stacking will only give about 60 damage per second.
Additionally, it would still compete with cinderhulk, making it difficult for those who could more easily abuse such a change like sejuani or amumu. it would still also compete with deadman's, which a bit more desirable for immobile tanks and juggernauts.
TheVishual2 votesI have no idea why it's changed to scale with level. It's supposed to be an early game item, like who the gives a S* about 50 damage per second at lv18? but scaling with level make it inefficient to rush either. It just feel like its' not a worthy option at any point of the game, neither early nor late. Can we change it back to flat damage?
PEOPLE FORGET SO QUICKLY
A Liberal1 votesEvelynn with 6 sunfire capes...
Usernamehere12352 votesI like the idea of it scaling, and it does do some real work early game if you rush it immediately (I play Shen, so it's almost essential for waveclear, pushing, some extra dmg, etc.), but I Find that late game the item becomes phenomenally worthless, as the scaling simply isn't very good. +1 dmg for every level is a joke
