Please Riot i am begging you, gut Botlane's influence on games

Malix Farwin·Apr 15, 2018·157 votes·21,771 views

Make mid and top relevant again. So sick of just being so hopeless when bot loses.

155 Comments

JustaNewbApr 15, 201865 votes

As long as one champion is responsible for 80%+ of the damage in a game, then the rest of the players in that game are basically placeholders. Yes, a good tank and support will ultimately achieve victory, however a terrible ADC will instantly lose the game.

Iffy JarlApr 15, 20188 votes

{quoted}

As long as one champion is responsible for 80%+ of the damage in a game, then the rest of the players in that game are basically placeholders. Yes, a good tank and support will ultimately achieve victory, however a terrible ADC will instantly lose the game.

how are they placeholders if they are needed to win the game?

DMate19Apr 15, 20183 votes

the complaint is that the entire game is built around the adc. tank, cc, peel, the majority of that is simply to help out botlane. DO you need them to win the game? yes, but not directly. You need them so that your ADC can win you the game

Iffy JarlApr 16, 20186 votes

{quoted}

the complaint is that the entire game is built around the adc. tank, cc, peel, the majority of that is simply to help out botlane. DO you need them to win the game? yes, but not directly. You need them so that your ADC can win you the game

This is false I don't know what else to tell you. The idea that the concepts of tanking, using cc, and peeling are just constructs of assisting the Adc are ridiculous, point blank period.

lHide on wardApr 15, 201816 votes

Since when does bot lane do 80%+ of damage in games on average? Mid, top, and jungle have potential to do just as much damage as bot lane, and even more, depending on the champion picked.

How is this the highest voted comment? It is clearly just straight-up wrong, and this person literally doesn't even play on summoner's rift, he only plays ARAM. What does he know about bot lane?

Plus the OP is a Zoe main. If you have played Zoe for 400+ games, and you're not consistently doing more damage than bot lane, or at least the same amount, then you should probably take a step back and evaluate your own gameplay.

These boards are fucked lol

Edit: BTW to be more on topic, the problem is not that a terrible ADC will lose the game. It's that a bad player in any role, playing a damage-oriented champion, will make the game much harder to win. Imagine trying to win a game with a 0/4/5 Singed vs a 0/4/5 Jayce. These are two totally different scenarios.

SchàdenfreudeApr 16, 20182 votes

H Y P E R B O L E

EedatApr 16, 20187 votes

Hyperbole is supposed to be a statement that is not to be taken seriously and so obviously impossible that nobody would ever take it serious. "I'm so hungry I could eat a whole cow" is an example of hyperbole. 2 or 3 pounds of food in one sitting is A LOT of food for one person. Obviously eating a 2000 pound cow is impossible.

This is not hyperbole. This is called lying. When you are intentionally stretching the truth in an attempt to mislead people into agreeing with one side of an argument, you are lying. It is no longer a harmless hyperbolic statement. This is the same as dishonest journalism akin to Fox, CNN, NBC, etc.

HópeApr 16, 201815 votes

{quoted}

As long as one champion is responsible for 80%+ of the damage in a game, then the rest of the players in that game are basically placeholders. Yes, a good tank and support will ultimately achieve victory, however a terrible ADC will instantly lose the game.

What.......... How do you post this and get upvoted.. Your adc is doing 80%+ of the teams damage..? Holy shit.

saltranApr 16, 20186 votes

I dare you, show me a single game where the adc did 80% of the teams dmg

HarrowRApr 16, 20184 votes

I won a 5v4 game a few days go where my adc rage quit after going 0/7 and Vayne had 14 kills? What now?Checkmate atheists

JaxMoonStealerApr 16, 20182 votes

This comment and the amount of upvotes it has are the Boards in a nutshell.

Junk WolfApr 16, 201812 votes

You can't make this community happy no matter what. Everyone wants their lane to be on top of the meta.

People complain when it's top lane carry meta, people complain when it's the assassin meta, the mage meta, the jungle meta, the adc meta, it doesn't matter. Riot can't make every single person here happy. so suck it up and move on.

at the end of the day adc's role is defined by it's one defining feature. that role will be the majority of the damage in teamfights. Different roles bring different strengths if you can't handle that then i suggest maybe trying out a different game.

ADCs have cons and pros. if an assassin finds a way to get on top of me im going to die most likely, I'm squishy. I'm worthless in lane without my support, I need to be babysat while i farm and harass until i get the items i need to be relevant in team fights and objective control.

The fact an adc relies on a second player can make that lane particular not fun, or when you get behind and you have 4 people dive you under turret.

Good thing riot doesn't pander to board QQing too much. if they did the game would even be more imbalanced. Roles exist for a purpose, they all have defining purposes, pros, cons etc.

Instead of complaining may i suggest you trying to get good and climb out of whatever shit elo you climbed out of?

HarrowRApr 16, 20186 votes

I imagine if one of these board geniuses had an opportunity to balance the game we would probably see Yasuo/Zed or some other Anime lookin mf get 300 base damage and 2.5 starting AS with 700 ms just to look like a dude in their favorite anime. On the side note i love some animes dunno why im a hater

CapeOfSunsApr 15, 201811 votes

I'll just chime in with a recent experience. I'm fed The jungle is fed Our mid is fed The support is doing fine The ADC sucks and wants to splitpush and farm

= Tough game. What the hell?

Spank the FoxApr 15, 201810 votes

Bot lane’s influence is nothing compared to junglers right now. Bot lane is good at being directed at objectives, which is the name of the game right now, but next to zero agency.

Go ahead and try to splitpush as an ADC compared to a top laner and see what happens.

Bot lane is a symptom of a larger problem.

BestPudgeNAApr 15, 201818 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spank the Fox,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0AggRQ5H,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-04-15T11:35:24.417+0000)

Bot lane’s influence is nothing compared to junglers right now. Bot lane is good at being directed at objectives, which is the name of the game right now, but next to zero agency.

Go ahead and try to splitpush as an ADC compared to a top laner and see what happens.

Bot lane is a symptom of a larger problem.

No the problem is botlane. Games are won in two different ways.

First is you stomp the opposing team really hard. In this case Bot is the best lane to be stomping because they siege the best

Second is the game goes long then the game is won around teamfights and ADC is the only role with any agency in teamfights.

epic dude2611Apr 15, 201813 votes

1: splitpushing is UNVIABLE, tanks sit under tower wave clear and you can do NOTHING and free home guards makes it impossible to prorate in a splitpushing

2: supports get so much gold and their items are so efficient, they often end up making entire teams unable to die while being ridiculously easy to play (locket heals and shields etc.)

Example : heal and shields items.

Ardent censor :

CD-R = more shields Ap = stronger shields Shield power increase = even stronger shields Ardent passive ( don't think I need to explain that)

The support items are so overloaded, they make every other role irrelevant (more item examples : zekes, locket, all the heal and shields items)

3: because supports are so strong, no one is allowed to kill the adc, assassin jumps on them, no problem, 500 HP Janna shield, overhead, bloddthirster et.c

Bruiser jumps on them, no problem, auto them two or three times and they die, while you have a 500 HP Janna shield

4: supports are so overpowered even apdo says that support has the highest ability to carry ( over jungles)

GayFluffyUnicornApr 15, 201812 votes

People are just way too bad to see how hard supports can actually carry. Playing against support smurfs who suddenly come up toplane and kill you, roam midlane, go in the enemy jungle and all that shit they control the entire map if done right.

greekvandaLApr 16, 20182 votes

{quoted}

People are just way too bad to see how hard supports can actually carry. Playing against support smurfs who suddenly come up toplane and kill you, roam midlane, go in the enemy jungle and all that shit they control the entire map if done right.

I mean i've never lost a single support game when i smurf so that is something. Specially considering i play shit like Alistar and Thresh botlane. But people bitch that support is useless and you do not know the ammount ofpeople that beg to not support even in this season in lower tiers when i play with friends. Atm i'd rather be autofilled support than go toplane and im a toplane/jungle 2 trick for years

Honeydew ZeklingApr 16, 20182 votes

Agreed. I play adc/mid mostly. When I'm ADC, I only do really well when I have an awesome support. Mediocre supp? I may do well but not likely. 1-2 kills early/midgame at most. Bad supp? I'm not getting any kills.

A good support allows an ADC to shine.

Pika FoxApr 15, 201810 votes

Bot lane has 2 people in it. Theres 5 people in a game. Bot lane is also close to a major early game objective. Bot lane intrinsically has more sway over the game on its own, and that will never change unless you wanna put 2 people top for whatever reason.

Mid and top are already relevant. If you feel irrelevant, rotate more. Mages and assassins go mid not because theyre the best midlaners to kill their targets (ADCs are actually the best 1v1 midlaners, winning many of the matchups mid), you go mid to roam top and bot. And your top laner is usually your primary teamfight centric player with high utility, splitpusher to force pressure, or playmaker with high outplay potential.

2Charmnot2CharmApr 15, 201846 votes

Bot lane has 2 people in it.

I'm so sick of this excuse, bot had 2 people it in for 8 YEARS ALREADY and they have never been such a problem till season 6-7.

Before if your bot laners lost lane to the enemy bot lane without anyone interfering pre 6 you can still do something about them as a solo laner if you're doing good yourself.

Now if your bot lane loses for any reason it's basically GGWP since the enemy bot lane will be the same level as the solo laners are, their items are MUCH cheaper than solo laners, one person is going to murder you with auto attacks (how can you outplay a point and click damage nuke other than stay out of their range?) while the other is that player's personal body guard who's sole purpose is to stop you from killing them with the spells from their kits AND the items that also helps mitigate damage (sometimes even buffs the adc in someway) that has been fed to that support by the feeding bot lane.

This is honestly ridiculous https://i.imgur.com/RsboxJe.jpg the game might as well remove solo laners because they don't matter at all, me and jinx already had 4 kills under our pockets before i told our jungler to hover us so he can protect us if the enemy jungler ganks after we took the first tower since we didn't want to swap lanes yet cause dragon was still up, and there really is no reason to swap while this far ahead.

Bonus: Did you know a full build ashe can 1v1 a full build rengar? Assassins in 2018 LUL ignore the fact i have baron and elder since the outcome would have been the same if i didn't get hit by a ezreal ult in that situation.

ThefrostyvikingApr 15, 20188 votes

And out of those 8 years the supports were basically irrelevant in gold/items for like,,,,,,was it all the way into season 6? So 6 years?

Tanks overall also got weaker and weaker until the tank update hit.

And that Rengar got minionblocked damn hard, he got stuck for basically 1,5 seconds while ashe was hellbent on running away and slowing him.

Also doesnt help that Ashe had deadmans plate and phantom dancer which severely reduces Rengars damage, and despite all that she still nearly exploded.

Rengars damage falls of later if he doesnt go crit with the current Q.

Getting fed to hell makes any lane strong, and botlane getting fed to hell is basically 40% of your team equal to 80% of the enemy team if they are behind or just even.

Meanwhile fed sololane is equal to 40% of enemy team, altho overall impact differs depending on which sololane.

2Charmnot2CharmApr 15, 20188 votes

And out of those 8 years the supports were basically irrelevant in gold/items for like,,,,,,was it all the way into season 6?

Which was fine because their kits were designed to be strong based on the fact their gold income is much lower than any other role in the game. They don't need items to use the strong utility given to them.

Tanks overall also got weaker and weaker until the tank update hit.

Never said anything about tanks but now that we are the subject, it's stupid that riot allows them to sustain while also having the base damage to kill mages and top fighters while most of those champs can't do enough damage to threaten them even when they play perfectly in the early game. They turn the lanes into a farm lane since the squishiy knows it's a waste of time trying to solo kill them and that if they step out of line the tank can just kill them or force them to back. Why are they allowed to be team fighting gods and have a safe/easy laning phase?

Also doesnt help that Ashe had deadmans plate and phantom dancer which severely reduces Rengars damage, and despite all that she still nearly exploded.

What two stats are the ultimate counter to burst damage? Extra HP and Resist. What kind of damage does Assassins do? Burst damage. Why would i bother with a GA that only gives 30 armor when i can completely negate Rengar's assassination attempts with a item 3742 ? The only reason i got that low was cause of the Ezreal ult (which does magic damage BTW) hitting me, rengar will never be able to kill me alone unless i was dumb enough to stand near by a bush after i got his Ult warning. Now that i think about it i should have built a item 3143 since that lowers the crit damage from Rengar's ult.

Also did you really expect a adc to not build item 3046 (it's designed for adc's come on) in a game where there is an assassin? Doesn't help that it gives the most attack speed out of all the Zeal items so it's not like i'm actually giving up damage for more safety, on that note i didn't have to give up any damage to non tanks by building that deadmans too! By the way look at my team comp and tell me to build full damage again.

ThefrostyvikingApr 15, 20184 votes

Support also had the least agency for the longest time, playing the role was like a punishment to the general player and pretty much everyone hated it like the plague.

People preferred straight up trolling rather than accepting support.

I dont quite know about competetive but in normals we dont see tanks at all much these days, they have dropped outa toplane and jungle quite a damn lot compared to the start of the season and a couple of patches after.

Conqueror also helps out a lot from what i heard.

And when i wrote "it doesnt help that Ashe had deadman and phantom" i was referring to Rengar´s chances of killing the Ashe.....after all the only one that suffers in that situation from ashe not exploding is rengar after all.

My end to that bit, " and despite that she still nearly exploded" was to show that it takes that much just to let Ashe survive, takes no imagination to know what would've happened to glass cannon Ashe there.

And having played Ashe i dont see any particular fault with the idea at all x)

2Charmnot2CharmApr 15, 20184 votes

We just need more play making supports tbh and players playing enchanters don't know that they can be aggro early game, i still see people playing them too passively for no good reason.

i was referring to Rengar´s chances of killing the Ashe

My bad.

I'll wait to see if the top lane meta for solo queue stays the same for a while, true that jungle tanks are getting weaker along with support tanks, but as a burst mage there is nothing you can do about Galio out damaging you (Thanks aftershock) and Chogath sustaining off minions with his passive and this item 1054 . I'll start to learn Azir and other battle mages later since burst mages are so garbage now with all the defensive options being strong and they can barely do their job when the enemy mid get's this item 3010

ThefrostyvikingApr 16, 20182 votes

I agree that active supports are a lot healthier than the passive ones like janna/lulu,,,,,it just sucks to play against them regardless of their playstyle since their kits happen to work the way they do.

Sure they can be aggro, but its also very easy to just sit back and do minimum interactions while making it twice or thrice as difficult to ever kill anything near you.

And the difference in performance, even just between individuals in the same class in league is huge.

Particularly when it comes to dealing with tanks, its something that everyone is trying to deal with as off now.

Many marksmen need like 3-4 items at the very least to even be noticeable.....then we have kog/varus etc whom at one item and the right support can melt the tanks extremely fast if left alone.

And that kind of difference exists among mages as well, like Cassio vs Syndra or something in that direction.

While i think specializations are fine the issue here is that the difference in performance cant be too large or a glaring weakness appears.....in above example we have Syndra who struggles with tanks even at full build and has a long time setup for a max power burst while Cassio can with max items melt anything she sets her sight on and still fight off and even kill Syndra in lane.

.....Actually kog and Varus are a bit similar to Cassio in how they despite being "high scaling" champs only have moderate difficulty in getting past laning and quickly outperforming everyone else and giving other classes hell for it.

Tanks will feel weak somewhat weak infront of the massive DPS and non tanks will melt in seconds, other non DPS damage carries will feel like they cant hurt the tank while at the same time become unable to beat those hyperscaling monsters as time go.

Its kinda unbalanced.

6KEMBE4ORBAApr 15, 20187 votes

Least agency, my ass.

Leona/Thresh were a thing too back in season 3/4 and could make plays. Goes for the other supports too.

Now, supports get gold for nothing + the increased ambient gold and having dirtcheap items with free CDR and spam their shields like retards.

"skill"

hah

That's the one of the main culprits to for shit balance the game is at. There are others.

3TWarriorApr 15, 201814 votes

supports were never irrelevant, people just did not enjoy playing "traditional" supports that are healers or shields because they play so monotonously and had so little impact on the opponents

now they're worse off because they do EVEN MORE for the team and less by themselves

GayFluffyUnicornApr 15, 201825 votes

Okay to settle this once and for all because i am so fuckin sick of reading this bullshit. It's cool you guys went to elemantary school and learned that 2>1 that's great for you personally but has NOTHING to do with how this game is supposed to work. There is a class called adc that ONLY or atleast majorily scales with items. Supposedly damage oriented scaling and EXPENSIVE items. A class mostly suited for lategame. Then you have toplaners like the bruiser/fighter class who are SUPPOSED to HARDSCALE with level. So they scale with level AND items. Assuming a not shitty and unbalanced game this would mean that a 0/0/0 but well farmed bruiser is on par or even ahead of an ADC that is 3/0 and got a turret 15 minutes into the game. Which might feel shitty for the ADC but then you shouldnt play a lategame hypercarry that needs his items to be useful. In the last two years where GP was not a dogshit Q bot and also not overpowered as after release you'd never see me complain about not impacting games before 15-20 minutes on GP simply because im a scaling champ that goes full crit. Especially true for s6 and half of s7. If i wanted to impact games early i would play jayce which i did a lot and good and succesful. Then you have supports who were designed with strong kits because they cant afford big items since there just aren't enough resources on the map. Which unfortunately due to leagues entire design led them to be overly oppressive in solo lanes. So they got gutted mostly but STILL where known even during what a lot of people call "wardbot meta" as playmakers and carries. Hello aphro and madlife. So generally you can say a solo laner is basically as strong as botlane together until late midgame-lategame. Just because riot live design threw in some mushrooms and said "fuck it" completely destroying any semblence of balance in this game doesn't mean it is supposed to be like that. Botlane has been botlane for YEARS with drake being there where it is FOR YEARS. Without botlane being so incredibly overpowered and oppressive that one kill and FB tower means they basically win the game for free if you didn't chain kill your enemy five times in a row and even then in soloQ the enemy support will mechanically outplay you with polymorph. Toplane IS irrelevant and the only reason mid is relevant is because mid is in the middle of the fuckin map and can roam but guess what people actually enjoy interacting with their opponent, killing him, outplaying him and carrying the game. Not afk waveclear for 20 minutes and jerking off the ADC as often as possible in this time. In my last 8 games i solocarried ONE game, one. That was my kled game. A few games i splitpushed hard i pressured a lot it was okay but without bot i would have lost and the rest of these fuckin games i play 1v3 get doven 24/7 and i guess i win the game because my botlane won. Fun gameplay rattato. So to make it short 2>1 does not and can never be the reason for botlane being as it is right now because this is not how this game is supposed to work. There needs to be different carries, different powerspikes etc etc. You cant just say fuck it and turn everyone into a gank bot for botlane and basically coinflip the game in soloQ on who gets the monkey ADC. Might be cool for pro play but it WILL and it DOES hurt the average day player. Ranked numbers have been going down, viewers are going down complaints are at an all time high and not only the low elo community but even the streamers who say "this game is shit riot please do something" and fanboys be like "yeah they are just tired of playing the same game". "no guys the state of this game is shit that's why i dont play or don't want to play" and fanboys be like "nono you are just washed up and bad".

Well this got longer than it should have been.

TL;DR: Just read this shit already.

Pika FoxApr 15, 20184 votes

Botlane is not oppressive. If youre having difficulty impacting the game as a jungler, mid laner, or toplaner, youre just not playing properly. Hell, toplane has historically and currently has one of the largest impacts in the game due to the champion pool it has in it. Its just no one wants to give the tankier/utility based champs the respect they deserve when they hand you the game on a silver platter, they just notice their riven or GP cant hard carry 1v9 and cry imba.

Also, everyone has ALWAYS ganked bot. Ganking top is often difficult as top lane can 2v1 easily or get away, or at least play passive (and theres no objective to gain after a kill). This isnt new. Bot lane has a better early objective, 2 players to aid you in your gank (who are usually utility heavy and damage heavy), and pushes your late game champ ahead of the enemy's. This has ALWAYS been the objective proper decision.

3TWarriorApr 15, 20186 votes

no, top laners have almost exclusively been reserved as the "tank" "backup tank" or "juggernaut" that people confuse with tank while most experienced players learn how to split push.

Top lane has also been delegated as a teleport lane so that they gank bottom and push the lane

the only time top-lane has been designated as "important" or having "one of the largest impacts in the game" is with champions that can split push to the base BY THEMSELVES and were annoying both to play and to play against

People preferred roles that could interact with the team, but now everything is given to bottom lane

Pika FoxApr 15, 20183 votes

Oh please, if you cant impact the game as mao, ornn, olaf or the like, youre playing the game wrong.

Spicy RiceApr 15, 20181 votes

So, tank (protects the adc), tank (protects the adc), and useless (still soaks up a little damage I guess)

Pika FoxApr 16, 20182 votes

Olaf being one of the strongest picks atm, yet you say useless. Yeah sure, whatever floats your boat.

Also, they do more than protect the adc. Ornn and mao are rather bad at it, their CC being either too single target or slow. Theyre good at engaging and disrupting the middle of teamfights, or in ornns case, great at area denial threat through his ult (taking drag or baron against ornn is hard as his ult is absolutely massive, and a 3-4 man hit with it can easily decide the entire fight)

RaiyzaApr 15, 20189 votes

Pfff.

You cant stop my fed Draaaaaaaven!!

No, but seriously I agree. If my lane is camped to hell and back and i cant even cs properly, its horseshit. If im falling behind, i hate that i cant do anything while the adc thats ahead of me is roaming and winning other fights.

mack9112Apr 16, 20187 votes

I remember when all the boards did was complain about Lee sin .... Good times ... I guess as the game grows so does the complaints ...

Malix FarwinApr 16, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I remember when all the boards did was complain about Lee sin .... Good times ... I guess as the game grows so does the complaints ...

I'd kill for the days back where Fizz and Lee Sin were the bulk of complaints. Now its like i almost prefer getting stomped by them.

mack9112Apr 16, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0AggRQ5H,comment-id=001d0000,timestamp=2018-04-16T10:31:03.486+0000)

I'd kill for the days back where Fizz and Lee Sin were the bulk of complaints. Now its like i almost prefer getting stomped by them.

I think that's kinda a unhealthy view of the game :(

zaqatApr 15, 20186 votes

Jungle is the most impactfull role dude, junglers camp bot, bot wins, if your jungle is utter shit, it's lost.

Caretaker JackApr 16, 20185 votes

ADC does have a lot of power, but a lot of yall are going overboard with this argument... I mean, yall aren't entirely wrong. Like, I'm sick of these clutch ganks being centered around bot lane, but regardless, the truth is that ADC is only truly devastating when they're ahead or if you waited too long to close a game where your opponent happens to have a better comp.

There are a lot of factors many of you aren't considering. Your ADC being "bad" is but one of many factors. It could also be their support or the fact their opponent is getting more help from their allies. Either way, going back in time would be a mistake. For the longest time ADC was useless. They were super weak the majority of their games and could barely kill anything pre 30 minutes unless they were fed or in a good matchup... And did we forget about that one time the class was so bad that people opted to go dual tanks and play AP bot laners?

I don't know... I'm just saying that good solo laners are still more than able to carry hard in their games. I think the real problem here is centered around that bottom turret being weaker than the others which attracts more attention there... The disparity isn't in ADC's power. It's in the fact that solo laners have to do more than win their lanes in order to truly carry.

BIoodwingApr 16, 20185 votes

Good ADC - win game Bad ADC - lose game

FlemmanApr 15, 20183 votes

the only way to make lead on toplane usefull would be to swap drake and herald/nash position

the fact that the lane with better scaling also have the scaling objective next to it put too much win condition on a small area on the map

FunkyMonkey3696Apr 15, 20184 votes

then bot lane duo will just go top like it happened in the lane swap meta

ElohavenApr 15, 20183 votes

Top with conqueror has a lot of early to mid game presence right now. True damage and a fed toplaner with Conqueror is pretty scary. Pretty sure top has a lot of relevance currently.

EchostormxxApr 15, 20182 votes

No. It really doesn't. I've had scores like 11/3, 15/6 and the rest of my team is feeding, yet I can't possibly hope to anything vs the 17/2 tristana that oneshots our entire fucking team in 2 autos.

ElohavenApr 16, 20185 votes

She's 17/2. Of course she's going to fuck you over.

What are you expecting? A fed enemy with over twice your gold income to be easy to defeat?

EchostormxxApr 16, 20181 votes

It's not just that. Maybe it's the champions I play but top lane feels really week. What I'm saying is it doesn't matter if you have 1,000 kills, because the rest of your team is feeding and top has no influence unless you're playing a champion that uses conqueror/scales really well.

ElohavenApr 17, 20183 votes

Pretty sure a fed Jax shits on me any day as an ADC main.

Granted, if I'm just as fed, my team will win fights if I survive - but saying top lane has no influence is bull.

BiochemicalZombiApr 16, 20182 votes

THERE IS A TLDR!!! Look at the bottom :). Also im tired excuse the lack of caps and no punctuation

Everyone always brushes off the "Bot has 2 people so they have 40% influence on the game", So why are we only limiting ourselves to One teams bot lane?

Its pretty obvious if bot hard wins that means that the enemy bot lane will be next to useless so essentially its like both teams starts with 5 points in strength

2 get stolen so it turns to 7:3 (6:4 if generous). Obviously if Top and mid both get absolutely stomped the same outcome occurs, Assuming bot went even / only slightly ahead its 6:4 strength, if bot went even then its 7:3 strength. ( As top and mid lost so the enemy team got fed therefore adding 2 strength)

If top and mid on team A gets stomped giving team B's mid and top +1 strength each right. And bot lane got stomped on Team B Giving team A's bot lane +1 strength each.

Then it depends on the champions and the comp as the points are 5:5 Which is fair right??? that's how the game is suppose to be "played" based on comp.

If its an adc thats a hyper carry and a super peel support vs Some mid/top which isnt that great at influencing teamfights its obvious the team with the fed teamfighters are going to win vice versa.

Also people are saying adc's do too much damage, Well in games all around which usually does more damage. The assault class or the ultility or tank class. Like what are you guys getting at, ADC's are meant to do damage, what you want them to build tank? or not have a support and shield themself?

O WAIT THATS WHAT RELIC SHIELD PROVIDED :O.

Also from experience, on top lane singed i always do 10k atleast above my ADC, I can carry teamfights by myself aslong as my team follows up, i become so ridiculously tanky that the adc who does so much damage is solo'ed by me, funniest thing is that i usually feed first blood because i play proxy singed.

I also play Draven, I don't scale to well into late game as most other meta ADC's . However 75% of the times i will stomp my lane and snowball off that. Same with singed. if i get first blood I will abuse my advantage and i will kill the top laner over and over until my minions take the tower (Usually i dont take tower unless another lane is losing their's and i'll take it for the bonus gold).

As singed i've gone against adc's who were an item up on mine or 1.5 and im just as fed as him, however i run in there with my new delicious kit which has grounding and bonus movement speed from drift. and i flip them. they die. Boom carried as a top laner when my bot fed. ( Ofc this is from just singed idk how any of the top laners play out. i did however play vlad for the first time and i doubled my adc's damage. Small sample as it is one champion but w/e).

Besides why are people complaining about tanks not being able to carry games without a reliable damage output..

weren't people complaining about tanks being able to 1v1 carries a few weeks ago????? Bipolar i swear.

Its simple logic that a support and tank arent going to be effective without a reliable damage carry, wtf do you want riot to do. implement a rune that says "If your adc is dogshit then replace all of your abilities with a hypercarries!. (Type: Trap Card. Condition for activation : Shitty ADC. Damage Increase: 1000+ Utility -1000)

However i will say this. I think pure tanks like maokai or ornn need to have more influence ( No nasus is not a pure tank cmon, he litterally shoves his cane up my A** as an adc). I dont think pure tanks are especially influential without roaming. Thats why i can never understand junglers that insist on ganking top when their champion isn't a carry, nor is our top. Getting the kills is good dont get me wrong, But you can influence the game more if you gank mid or bot.

Im going to use User Malix Farwin's Post as an example NOTE: THIS IS OBSERVATIONS NOT TO FLAME HIM

He went 17/5 and 14/1 in 2 games. Lost the 17/5 Won the 14/1

So i see in the 17/5 Your bot lost, The enemy mid lost. So the The bot and the mid did around the same damage. So basically i see 2 carries on even amount of gold, However i noticed the enemy team has a way better teamfight than you guys MF As a damage carry is way better in a teamfight than a zoe.

What if you were on vlad and cass? With sivir Ult and lulu to help you i would say you could have won the game. On your 14/1 game it seems every lane won.... so... this literally proves nothing.. IF it was that you were 1/9 and your ADC was fed and you won. i could see it. But what is the suprise when both damage lanes and top won their lane?

Of course this isnt to flame him. im saying its pretty obvious that a damage lane getting fed will effect the game more, and adding to the fact bot makes 2 players stronger and 2 players more useless.

TLDR; No shit sherlock that it's going to be harder to win if bot loses, its 2 players getting stronger 2 players getting weaker 7:3

No shit tanks aren't able to carry games, they litterally nerfed them because people complained about the damage

No shit if the enemy DAMAGE carry gets fed that it will be harder to win compared to their tank getting fed.

I am open to debate on this and i would like to see what it looks like to a player who does not play ADC and Carry top laners!