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How do I counter Sustain?

DarthSpectrum··1 votes·3,725 views

I've been playing top a lot lately, and I have realized that the majority of "meta" champions at top has some incredible sustain built into them. Despite that, they also have decent damage and tank stats to utilize while their sustain is keeping them alive.

So, my question is how do I exactly fight an enemy with high regeneration? I can't win trades, and as a top laner, my burst isn't exactly spectacular either.

I would like to know a way to fight sustain without sustain myself, a lot of champions I've seen are boarder line toxic to gameplay as they turn the laning phrase to one giant battle of attrition.

Edit: Thanks to all those who responded. Many has asked me to clarify which champions I usually pick for top, and they are Irelia and Riven. To show my current difficulties combating sustain characters, here is a match I played yesterday as Irelia:

Against Lee Sin (minimal life steal.) http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1593357430/219216356 and against Dr. Mundo (Heal to full ult) http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1594666413/219216356

It seems no matter what I do, I cannot even force Mundo to pop his ult unless I use mine as well. Even then, I often fail to kill him and I then no longer have the potential damage to burst him down again until my Ult is off CD.

24 Comments

Pinker 102 votes

You can outright kill it Pantheon + summoner 14 Alternatively, u can counter Vladimir with more Fiddlesticks

Or you can outrange it Tristana (and also grievous wounds it)

The Minion hunt1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pinker 10,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0A5zwoUf,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2014-10-22T01:18:49.807+0000)

You can outright kill it Pantheon + summoner 14 Alternatively, u can counter Vladimir with more Fiddlesticks

Or you can outrange it Tristana (and also grievous wounds it)

Vlad from mid lane has a weird early power spike against other mages because he has everything he needs to stay in lane. After you get your mana regen and outrange him as most mages do, you can begin to constantly harass him. just my thoughts.

7ha7guy7772 votes

item 2041 might help (but you'll lose the early game stats you'd gain from a doran's item). summoner 14 is useful. items or abilities that inflict grievous wounds can really help. what are the main tops that you play? the matchups might have something to do with your problem.

DarthSpectrum1 votes

I generally play Irelia or Riven. Taking Ignite isn't really a good solution for me as I often take teleport to gank other lanes. However, often my recent matches, I have began to reconsider.

Kuroi861 votes

Sunfire cape Thornmail Executioners Calling Ignite

ArtoriusIV1 votes

You can buy sustain, back and buy more often to get and maintain an item advantage, or let them push and get your jungler to gank often.

DarthSpectrum1 votes

What should I do if they begin zoning me out? Often, I find good players to repetitively engage me until I cannot farm without the risk of dying. But if I go back, I miss a lot of CS and a possibly a tower.

I understand that I can buy sustain, but those who have it built into their kit will have it 5 to 7 minutes before I do. (Even if I rush the item)

ArtoriusIV1 votes

if they zone you try to get jungle help, if they keep engaging you, try to win the trade, then engage on them before they have a lot of time to sustain back up, especially on riven.

egoSniper1 votes

The triangle of League generally goes like this:

Tanks lose to sustain Sustain loses to burst Burst loses to tanks

This is a big part of why Vladimir is a terrible mid and why ADCs usually lose to mages. Mundo is the only champion I can think of who truly fits into two of these categories at once (tank-sustain) and I think we all know how obscenely difficult it is to kill that guy.

Long story short, your goal is to be aggressive using a champion with a lot of all-in potential and/or raw damage. You get in and stay in. If you retreat first against a sustain champion, you lose. Make *them *retreat.

AtheosisX1 votes

The triangle of League generally goes like this:

Tanks lose to sustain Sustain loses to burst Burst loses to tanks

This is a big part of why Vladimir is a terrible mid and why ADCs usually lose to mages. Mundo is the only champion I can think of who truly fits into two of these categories at once (tank-sustain) and I think we all know how obscenely difficult it is to kill that guy.

Warwick and Nasus are sustain tanks as well.

egoSniper2 votes

True enough, thanks. Personally I highly dislike the entire idea of a sustain-tank since, if you look at the triangle I posted earlier, it becomes clear that sustain-tanks are by their nature extremely difficult to deal with.

If I were in Riot's position I would definitely nudge those champions toward one category or the other.

DarthSpectrum1 votes

Yeah, my main quarrel is with Dr. Mundo. I can't kill him with an all in, and I must recall after every attempt due to my health disadvantage.

I agree with you completely.

deadlychuck1 votes

The triangle of League generally goes like this:

Tanks lose to sustain Sustain loses to burst Burst loses to tanks

unfortunately burst has become so strong on some champions that even tanks lose to it in the early to mid game, because most burst champions have the damage built into their kits, or rush as much as they can at early levels (because they have survivability built in their kits) while tanks are more item dependent to take less damage.

The reason is that tanks have to build 2 stats in order to survive, health and the appropriate resistance.

Burst assassins only require the one stat which they are using to burst you down, Attack Damage or Ability Power.

KMannnnn11 votes

What champions do you usually play in top lane?

Most meta top laners have at least some form of in-built sustain, and if they don't they can get away with building lifesteal. The most popular top laners right now tend to have a lot more natural sustain, but it's not really exclusive to them.

DarthSpectrum1 votes

Irelia and Riven for top lane.

Irelia's sustain isn't impressive (or even remotely functional) without activating the W which doubles it. Riven has no default sustain, and her shield is rather lackluster due to its duration.

HeadCrusher1 votes

I play glass-cannon/burst Morde with Ignite+Heal... I can somewhat burst, have some sustain with ult+spellvamp+heal, and be somewhat tanky with that shield... but I'm bronze so Idk if that even works against skilled players.

Decaedeus1 votes

Against Dr. Mundo, as Riven, you really need to bully him out of lane by dodging his cleavers and out-trading him before he starts getting that epic OP sustain and health. As in, like not level 6. Level 1/2 you need to abuse that Broken Wings/Ki Burst/Valor trading power. Mundo lacks early game trading power until around lv5/6.

CrankyChipmonk1 votes

item 3123 ....

DarthSpectrum1 votes

The stats on it are really terrible.

It would only be useful against the sustain-tank in a teamfight. (Even then, he/she will stack armor)

Salidfingers1 votes

Stop looking at the stats and look at how much healing it stops

Cenobite Azaziel1 votes

Hum... I need to counter sustain... so I have to build a crappy item.

Hum... I need to counter any burst assassin... hum.. zonyha. Wow, not a crappy item.

DarthSpectrum1 votes

Yeah, pretty much this.

Neither item 3123 nor item 3165 are viable end game items.

Cenobite Azaziel1 votes

Stop looking at the stats and look at how much burst it denies AND the free cooldown! Zonyha still uselful in ALL situation. It's stats are STILL god like. Better building path, USEFUL building path and broken active. Put grievous wounds in the blood thirst (makes sense) and it's a deal.

Morellos grievous wounds is condicional. It's a decent item and a option for chalice and it's cost efficiency is 135% without the passive. Executioners Calling is ony 100%. "I'm breakind his sustain and breaking one of my item slot that could be a inf edge 80 AD and imba criticals or tiamat.

Calling is to horrible. IF you're making a item that is eating up your slot so early, give it a relevant stat and high cost effeciency.

Champions that are out scaled during game are WAY powerfull in the early. Apply the same logic on calling.

Arrion1 votes

You counter sustain, but being either a massive kite champ like Ashe who can kite for days, Skarner, who again can kite for days, A stunlock champ again like Skarner who can lock down an enemy champ and put on some serious hurt. or out tank them with shields like again Skarner, and Malphite using Barrier, and items that grant shields like Face of the Mountain.

For life steal to work they have to deal damage and barriers/shields will greatly reduce, or null life steal.

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