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Why do Riot not nerf Fizz? (Answer Inside)

DarthSpectrum··10 votes·2,004 views

Because he just E's away from the nerf hammer.

The amount of mobility and burst Fizz has is ridiculous, not even Yasuo, Zed or Kassadin ever came close to Fizz. (He literally is the combination of the best of these 3 infamous assassins, all the rewards of their kits and none of the risks.)

So how come Riot still hasn't nerfed Fizz yet?

I understand that he is squishy at low levels, and one can simply engage after he wastes his jump; I cannot deny that since it is fairly simple to get a first blood on him at level 3 due to his high mana costs and CD on his Q and E. However, unlike Yasuo, Kassadin, or Zed, who needs to stay ahead in the game to remain relevant and not be 100-0ed by the enemy team, Fizz is not hindered at all by poor early performance.

To Fizz, there are no such things as "items to get when behind" because he does not have to worry about the enemy team shutting him down early in the fight as he can always guarantee his survival while pulling off his rotation with his E. This advantage is further compounded by the low CD on his E and Q, which allows for insane survivability for an "assassin."

Now, I actually do not want to nerf him too much, as he truly is squishy early game, with extraordinarily high mana costs.

The changes I propose are:

-Playful/Trickster no longer dodges tower shots -Trickster no longer deals AP damage, rather, it only applies AA damage. -Nimble Fighter does not apply on melee attacks -Urchin Strike no longer scales with both only AD(Lichbane still counts)

Possible (compensation) buffs: -Playful/Trickster mana cost reduced. -Urchin Strike still applies on hit effects. -Each cast of Trickster grants a buff which reduces the cost of the next playful and charges Fizz's next AA.

Neutral Changes -The time spent on the trident before triggering playful is increased.

I believe this is all that needed to bring him more in line with the other champions in the current Assassin Meta. It is fine that he now longer has to worry about mana as much, since most other high mobility burst characters uses energy or no resources at all.

By toning down his high mobility and initial burst damage, Fizz's kit will actually make sense as a acrobatic mage who is suppose to win by out sustaining an enemy through skill full dodges, rather than the high AP assassin who can 100-0 anyone without fear of retaliation due to his 1.5 second invulnerability.

25 Comments

KzooCrasher4 votes

Or leave him alone as he is already very well balanced. He's a melee ap assassin who's escapes double as his damage source making him very unsafe while applying all his damage

DarthSpectrum3 votes

Or leave him alone as he is already very well balanced. He's a melee ap assassin who's escapes double as his damage source making him very unsafe while applying all his damage

His escape has a 5 second cool down with high CDR; by no means is it unsafe compare to what the other assassins have. Especially since most of them can only escape with their ults.

Some Bacon2 votes

Kass ultra doesn't count by 7 sec cd.

Kat has escape.

Zed does.

Akali does.

Leblanc dose.

Do research next time, Kay?

Cacapoopoopipi1 votes

He hardly needs to escape because once he has a three of his items, one being zhonyas, he can finish any non tank with 2-3 hits and zhonyas if he even has to.

Some Bacon2 votes

"Not even yasuo or kass come close to fizz, but zed is way stronger, is popular in LCS, has way more outplay potential and can 100-0 people in the same time it takes fizz to do the same"

FTFY

DarthSpectrum1 votes

I agree with you about Zed having higher potential than Fizz.

All 3 champions I used for juxtaposition has some of the highest skill ceilings in the entire rooster.

Expect for Fizz, one can fully utilize the maximum potential of his E fairly easily. Additionally, he has two movement abilities that are also capable of an immense amount of damage while the other assassins only have one. (Save the ults for Zed and Yasuo, which have a long cool down.)

I simply wish to increase the threshold of skill needed to play him, so that the rewards actually matches the effort put in to learning him.

Some Bacon1 votes

I simply wish to increase the threshold of skill needed to play him, so that the rewards actually matches the effort put in to learning him.

Uh, that's a tweak, not a nerf. Nerfs are for when a champ is too strong, not too easy. Master yi is easy to pubstomp with, but he hasn't been touched since his rework (nerf and buff wise)

If you want to increase the amount of skill needed, don't nerf him. That just lowers the skill cap because he has less potential.

Llanite1 votes

Yasou ult has 50s @lvl1, 30s @lvl3, FIzz has 120s lvl1, 80s lvl3, which is somewhere around 300% longer.

Zed has 2 gap closer (R/W) and 1 free escape (reactivate R). Leblanc also has 2 gap closer/maker and 2 escapes. Akali can dash 3 times. Khazix has 1 leap and 3 all-purpose sprint/invis Ahri has 3 dash. Talon has 1 blink + 1 spirnt/invis. Kat has 1 leap 1 sprint (reset on kill)

Who exactly only "have one movement ability"?

Daishø1 votes

When Zed goes to one of his shadows, it's technically a blink, so it's like Fizz's e. I've dodged many LB chain, Fizz ults, and ADC global ults by timing my shadow transfers correctly.

oh you wanna die1 votes

i downvoted you because you said zed and yasuos ult have long cooldown times.

Hayaishi2 votes

"Not even yasuo or kass come close to fizz, but zed is way stronger, is popular in LCS, has way more outplay potential and can 100-0 people in the same time it takes fizz to do the same"

FTFY

But Zed gets countered by QSS and Zhonyas.

Some Bacon4 votes

Yes, because fizz doesn't

/sarcasm

Chaotic Reks1 votes

yes because every other champion in league doesn't

PAULlNE2 votes

I have a diamond and a plat 3 account and I feel like Fizz is fine, he is one of my favorite champs but I still rarely play him and I've never lost to a Fizz and felt like I lost because he picked Fizz.

Kürama2 votes

NUUUU. Leave my fish alone. He's awsum. :) Fizz

Trading Aces2 votes

Look at all these Fizz mains.

Llanite1 votes

E lasts 0.75s with 8s CD, coming around 9% up time.

It's a unique mechanism, but let's say he can no longer dodge stuff but gain a 260(+0.5) shield, would it be better? As a Lulu player, even with lvl 1 shield, I can fully absorb one spell and a half, or two (uncharged) tower shots, Fizz being able to negate one spell/ 1 tower shot is reasonable.

Also, FYI, his Q only has 10 dmg @lvl1 because it takes into account his AD. With no AD scaling, it should go somewhere 240(+0.7 AP) like other mages. Again, it's a unique mechanism but total dmg output is just the same as other abilities.

DarthSpectrum1 votes

8 second is the best scaling without any CDR, not even from masteries.

I am not saying that he shouldn't be able to dodge stuff, just not tower shots.

As well, since his Q scales off his AD and simultaneously applies his W, it will do 100 damage minimal at level 2 and 3. That is around 1/3 to 1/5 of another champion's health at that level, while not even taking account of the % missing health damage.

Fizz has an incredible amount of damage, especially ask he gets items such as death cap, lichbane, and DFG. His burst is on par with other caster assassins such as Ahri, however, he also has the ability to engage and disengage at will.

Against ranged, Fizz is more manageable; the problem with him is that he can easily out trade melee laners once he has a point in QWE. I can get first blood as Riven and Fizz will come back as if nothing has happened. This is why I suggested that the passive AA defense on Nimble Fighter should not apply to melee.

Daishø1 votes

Fizz has an incredible amount of damage, especially ask he gets items such as death cap, lichbane, and DFG.

I can a Brutalizer at 7 mins as zed or yasuo, and out burst a Fizz the minute i hit lvl 6. And also, other then providing a little bit of utility team fights, zed scales into mid and late game better then Fizz and also can split push effectively. He can also 100-0 faster then a fizz.

Against ranged, Fizz is more manageable; the problem with him is that he can easily out trade melee laners once he has a point in QWE

And also, he's not ranged lol. He has no abilities that let him farm from a far without getting closer to the enemy such as his Q and E. And a lot of melee champs can out trade a fizz when they have a point in all 3 of their abilities. Fizz fits in with all other assassin mid laners right now. All of them can burst a single target down really fast, and most have an escape, such as a blink or speed buff. pr a dodge such as fizz' E. So no, fizz is not OP, you just know how to play around him.

KzooCrasher2 votes

He can engage and disengage at will but that will give him almost 0 damage potential. His E is a large part of this damage so if he escapes with it he can't assassinate with it so mission accomplished fizz is alive but he didn't kill anyone either

oh you wanna die1 votes

pls, old kassadin was stupidly broken once he had roa.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

All Fizz needs is a slight increase to the base CD of his E at later ranks. Early on, it's long enough. Late-game, 8 seconds is pretty obnoxious. 10-12 seems more fair to me.

AnomalousChimera1 votes

I understand that he is squishy at low levels, and one can simply engage after he wastes his jump; I cannot deny that since it is fairly simple to get a first blood on him at level 3 due to his high mana costs and CD on his Q and E. However, unlike Yasuo, Kassadin, or Zed, who needs to stay ahead in the game to remain relevant and not be 100-0ed by the enemy team, Fizz is not hindered at all by poor early performance.

Yeah, maybe that applies to Kassadin but not the other two. The other two have reliable waveclear, farm way more efficiently, and do much more damage than Kassadin in general.

Platythulhu1 votes

This is complete correct! I just had a game against a Fizz as Master Yi and he would jump and shark me every time I was around and just kill me! He needs to be banned in every game until fixed and I mean a new kit because this one is to powerful. I will even consider dodging every game with out a Fizz ban because I refuse to play against him! The problem is he can just jump away from CC like it doesn't exist and then destroy you. His whole kit needs an overhaul if he can simply avoid taking damage and then nuke someone. I don't care how squishy he is early game because late game regardless of being fed he is able to carry a team.

The Box Gh0st1 votes

When Fizz can catch me as thresh and I have boots of mobility, popped my speed boost actives on Talisman of Ascension and Righteous Glory I call shenanigans. Fizz needs to be nerfed. Either have his dash and jump range shortened a lot or just nerf his damage.

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