When will thornmail get balanced?

remeasures2··1 votes·550 views

Or when will an ad item come out that will better fight thornmail? You shouldnt have to build 4 items to counter one... I was fairly fed as Jinx. The enemy maokai had banshees, thornmail, warmogs, and randuins. They were an all ad team other then maokai and a really behind mid ahri. I had PD, IE, LW, BOTRK, BT, Boots and a red pot. I still counldnt 1v1 Maokai because his tornmail was still doing more damage to me then my healing. I shouldnt have to build armor pen, life steal and magic resist to negate the damage FROM AN ITEM. I mean seriously I was healing for like 124 hp per AA and thornmail was dealing like 140 damage per aa. I mean simple changes could make this item not as broken. Make the damage returned be a percent after armor/mr. Increase the armor or add like 150 health and reduce the damage returned to like 15%. But 30% on a full build(400+ ad) adc is ridiculous. Or make an armor pen item that has mr and life steal. If the enemy team has no ap threat I shouldnt need to build a magic resist item just for thornmail. This item has no counter unless you base your entire build around it. And no, having your team play around it isnt balance either. Because lets face it sometimes the enemy team out engages your teams peel so the apcs shouldnt haver to focus the enemy tanks and in this tank meta if your team has 3 or more ad champs or a single ad champ in your team gets fed trust and believe there will be like 3 thornmails on the enemy team. In the end all of the armor pen items other then LW are lack luster on adcs anyways(Black cleaver on anyone other then miss fortune and possibly ashe since her q's cooldown only gets lowered by cool down reduction is bad and ghostblade is the 1st item graves/vayne will sell when they have money for another item after they are full build) I mean seriously what was the last ad item released? Essence reaver? How often is that built? So please I hope to god a red will read this. Either release an item that will make thornmail(especially in a tank meta) not completely broken against mainly aa based adcs like jinx, sivir, ashe, vayne, cait etc or revamp its stats. I mean adding health and making the damage return calculate after defenses or add more armor and reduce the damage returned to 15%-20% would be amazing. I mean change the build path to two chain vests or a chain vest and a wardens mail, make it 120 armor and cost 2300 and have it return 15% damage would still make it cost efficient and strong just not game breaking because no item should be overpowered in itself. At the moment the only adcs that can combat thornmail are non aa based adcs and anti tank adcs such as corki, vayne, varus and kogmaw.

12 Comments

ModKnightsKemplar4 votes

Disagree.

Thornmail is working as intended. It's designed as a deterrent to a pre-6 item adc. Sounds like it was doing it's job.

So you SHOULD have to be full build to deal with it, is my point. ADCs are designed to carry the late game. That's the reason they exist in their current state in this particular game. Tanks should be able to 1v1 you if they have the items you listed and you don't have bork and armor pen.

If you want a game where all roles are balanced against each other at all stages of the game, League of Legends isn't for you. I'm not saying your opinion is wrong, mind you. I'm telling you that the design philosophy for this game is not what you want. It's just no designed that way, and that's completely intentional.

A Miss Fortune1 votes

I don't think the item is completely working as intended, it should be an item built to counter fed ADCs, especially Marksmen due to them typically having more sustained damage while Assassins like Zed or Talon are designed to blow you up.

I think the item counters basically every ADC regardless of if they're fed or not. The extremely cheap item cost on I believe the highest armor giving item, that also gives an irreplaceable buff is difficult to counter. Typically you have to build Bloodthirster so you won't kill yourself, as Blade of the Ruined King wouldn't provide enough, and Mercurial Scimitar or Maw of Malmortius's Magic Resist wouldn't either. It seems unfair that we have to build 1 - 2 items to nullify Thornmail, regardless of if we're fed or not.

I think Thornmail should be designed to counter FED ADCs only, not just all of them. It gives too much power to people like Jax or Xin Zhao who can easily stomp any ADC with the item if they lack items far more expensive than it like Boodthirster.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0A2lo0iI,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-07-18T22:53:27.902+0000)

I don't think the item is completely working as intended, it should be an item built to counter fed ADCs, especially Marksmen due to them typically having more sustained damage while Assassins like Zed or Talon are designed to blow you up.

I think the item counters basically every ADC regardless of if they're fed or not. The extremely cheap item cost on I believe the highest armor giving item, that also gives an irreplaceable buff is difficult to counter. Typically you have to build Bloodthirster so you won't kill yourself, as Blade of the Ruined King wouldn't provide enough, and Mercurial Scimitar or Maw of Malmortius's Magic Resist wouldn't either. It seems unfair that we have to build 1 - 2 items to nullify Thornmail, regardless of if we're fed or not.

I think Thornmail should be designed to counter FED ADCs only, not just all of them. It gives too much power to people like Jax or Xin Zhao who can easily stomp any ADC with the item if they lack items far more expensive than it like Boodthirster.

problem is, borks passive isnt affected by thornmail. and they buffed it to apply lifesteal for some reason. so its the strongest item to fight someone with a thornmail.

they need to remove that lifesteal from the bork passive again imo.

A Miss Fortune1 votes

It will still quite easily kill you though, while you may be able to use the passive of BoRK and abuse it, the Thornmaill will eventually deal so much more damage as far as I know?

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

I really haven't had problems beating it as a full item adc. It costs the tank something to build it, honestly. It may be good against adcs, but your team has an easier time killing them with the health they give up for that.

TheI3igDaddy4 votes

All I hear is 'boo hoo I can't murder everything at full build, this shit needs to be nerfed NOW!'

IcyPepper2 votes

I still counldnt 1v1 Maokai because his tornmail was still doing more damage to me then my healing

That's.

The.

Point.

if you could build enough lifesteal to ignore thornmail, then lifesteal would be broken. Countering doesn't mean completely negating, as you will always do AD damage no matter how much armor someone has. LIfesteal is a defensive stat, and thornmail's passive is offensive.

Sir Yamazuki1 votes

A properly built adc isn't going to be dying to thornmail. You don't have to build the same items in the same order every game, part of winning in league is building according to the situation. A lot of tanks don't build thornmail anyways, and by the time they do it's later in the game.

Trídent1 votes

When you don't focus the tank, build lifesteal, or get some MR

Critmaster Garen1 votes

thornmail should get buffed. its the only item thats capable of halfway decently counter adc right now.

and attack speed slows need to be buffed back up to their pre nerf values.

Reaper Soraka1 votes

I would recommend a Guardian Angel over say botrk. The Botrk gives great damage against high HP targets and some lifesteal, but the Thornmail's damage returned is magic; GA's magic resist would reduce it significantly.

Personally I think Thornmail needs a little buff. :P

Lugg1 votes

I was balanced in patch V1.0.0.82. When they raised the damage return from 25% to 30%.

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