What the jungle needs...

Linna Excel··1 votes·776 views

Besides a better vision from riot. Basically there are 3 types of junglers, but riot is only really supporting the first kind: early game gankers. The other two they tried to support, that being power farmers (these tend to be AA reliant champs) and tanky junglers, but I don't think they know what they want from those two groups.

The early game gankers are good because they can clear and kill pretty much with their base stats. Power farmers need to AFK farm for too long (thank you wriggles for making a questionable playstyle worse) and tanks can't really clear or gank and are only really useful late game in team fights. Now if riot doesn't have an idea for the other two types of junglers or doesn't want to support them, that's fine but those characters need to be reworked into laning champs.

So I think riot needs to ask itself if most champs should be able to jungle and if not, what do they specifically want from their junglers? If they want more than just the early ganker in the jungle, then they really need to commit to supporting the entire jungle. They aren't. They say they want to, but it doesn't really look to me like they do. It's all half-hearted attempts to duct tape the issue and hope it goes away.

Speaking of reworks, maybe jungle items need to be reworked. All of them give you bonus gold for jungling. All of them give you bonus damage for jungling. Most of them give you a lot of sustain while jungling. And everyone who jungles needs one. So I have to ask an obvious question: why not delete the items and move their bonuses into runes and masteries somehow? I mean the bonus damage and gold that all jungle items give you could be put into a quint of some kind. And I'm not going to lie when I say there aren't many masteries just for jungling.

6 Comments

GundayMonday1 votes

I think the jungle's fine. Have a lot of success with tank junglers in diamond solo queue personally. There needs to be some quality LCS tank jungler players if you want the entire community to play tank junglers correctly. The "Copy the pros" mentality is most likely the main reason you don't see a lot of variety out there.

Linna Excel1 votes

Gunday, I'd like to agree with you, but I feel things like tank junglers are working in spite of riot, not because of them. And power farmers have trouble working at least where I am because laners expect you to babysit them all game. Getting feral flare and power jungling won't work well. Picking up a late game tank who isn't a strong early ganker or a fast clearer has issues too.

GundayMonday1 votes

because laners expect you to babysit them all game.

The game is balanced around optimal play. Your laners are playing incorrectly :-) (Different strats are better at different skill levels, but this isn't a balance issue)

Getting feral flare and power jungling won't work well. Picking up a late game tank who isn't a strong early ganker or a fast clearer has issues too.

Well yeah, you can't apply the same strategy every single game and expect to win. This is an UNBALANCED game with multiple hard counters. Early game champs with early game power spikes try to win the game fast. LeeSin wants you to surrender at 20 mins because he is pretty worthless late game against a fully farmed MasterYi Warwick Shyvana . If you can stall out the game, you win.

Same deal for tank champs. Late game Sejuani Nautilus are monsters. They will be unkillable titans. The trade off there is a weak early game. Riot isn't going to give you a champion that's strong at all points in the game without any meaningful counterplay. That's what OP means, and that's why nerfs exist.

The trick is picking the right champions to counter the enemy team's picks. You also want to play a certain way to mitigate your own weaknesses. There's a reason that Warwick Vi will powerfarm the jungle until they hit 6 (they get a HUGE spike in power when they get their ultimate, and it's pretty much a sure kill). They waste time ganking before that. Same reason for tank junglers. You're not going to face tank infinity tower hits with DrMundo Amumu until late game, so no reason to try to dive and make plays like a LeeSin pre level 6.

See what I mean? I'm a diamond player and will willingly admit that I make a lot of mistakes and do not understand everything. The game's honestly in a good place from a jungle balance perspective, but not every player knows how to take advantage of it optimally.

TL DR; Different champs have different strengths/weaknesses at different times and the jungle is well balanced around that (granted there will always be some broken stuff in a game as complicated as LoL)

Linna Excel1 votes

I don't have an argument with this, however it seems like riot is currently favoring the pre-6 gankers who snowball your laners. That's just how I'm observing things.

12tales1 votes

So I think riot needs to ask itself if most champs should be able to jungle and if not, what do they specifically want from their junglers? If they want more than just the early ganker in the jungle, then they really need to commit to supporting the entire jungle. They aren't. They say they want to, but it doesn't really look to me like they do. It's all half-hearted attempts to duct tape the issue and hope it goes away.

You can look forward to the pre-season, then, when all of these changes are slated to happen.

Meep Man1 votes

The reason they don't pay much heed to early game junglers is that they are already performing really great (look at Lee Sin, Elise, Rengar, etc.). Carry Junglers are 90% of the time melee so they aren't used much because of it since a melee character without any way of protecting himself runs into being too weak, but a carry one with them would also run into balance problems. So, very few Carry Junglers exist that perform extremely well in high play. Tank Junglers are very useful early game actually IF they can gank and you gank lanes with good killing power (tank lanes don't usually need ganks anyways). Look at Rammus and Maokai. Great ganks all around with good contribution late game too. So truly, Carry Junglers need some changes, BUT THEY CAN'T. Since junglers typically undergo uninterrupted farming, they can't increase their power at all since that leads to unresponsive carrying. The only way for all jungler types to work is to, sure, do some item modifications and make the lanes not just stay in lane and have an incentive to go into the jungle without having to lose too much gold and experience in order for Carry Junglers to not have uninterrupted farming and be able to be buffed because of it. They need to make the jungle more interactive for laners and junglers and less "camp, camp, camp, gank maybe, camp, camp, camp, gank maybe..." Once they do this, the jungle can be properly balanced for all three... four styles of jugnling, being early game damage, early game tank, late game damage, and late game tank. Also some mascots for such roles include LeeSin for early game damage, Rammus for early game tank, MasterYi for late game damage, and Nautilus for late game tank.

More from Gameplay

More by Linna Excel