Are we still pretending Jinx is balanced?

Matezoide·May 10, 2015·13 votes·1,387 views

When the single most picked champion in the game is on the top 6 win-rates across every elo, you got a problem.

40 Comments

MatezoideMay 10, 20154 votes

She is literally picked more often that every ADC in the game and still wins far more often than every single one of them. Let that sink in for a moment.

Trash MammaIMay 10, 20154 votes

She also has 0 mobility and a terribly unreliable form of cc with her chompers as well as a hard to hit ult and an easy to dodge W..

MohawkBirdMay 10, 20151 votes

[deleted]

Trash MammaIMay 10, 20152 votes

That's Jinx's support doing good then if they're able to peel 5 people off an adc with no mobility or self-peel not the champ

AbyssphereMay 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

She also has 0 mobility and a terribly unreliable form of cc with her chompers as well as a hard to hit ult and an easy to dodge W..

... all of which isn't enough to reduce her winrate to a more regular number.

warpenguin555May 10, 20154 votes

I dont think you looked very closely. if you did you would have seen Amumu and Sejuani there as well, both with with higher win rates until you get into diamond, then when you go to master and challenger, none of the 3 are even there.

Also what are you hoping to accomplish with this thread? Riot doesnt read these kinds of threads for a reason, so thats out.

PheroMay 10, 20153 votes

Nah she is quite broken and safe. Put her with a competent support and it becomes some bullshit right there.

Vistha KaiMay 10, 20153 votes

Isn't that true for everybody?

ABlueQuakerMay 10, 20152 votes

I feel like the main issue with Jinx is that her reset becomes too rewarding in the late game. As long as she tags someone with something, she's basically kalista as soon as an enemy is slain. She can be shut down in lane and during the mid game, but a late game Jinx is a late game Jinx and given the current nature of the game, late game isn't that hard to get to.

That said, resets on champions are always potentially problematic. I'd personally like to see Jinx's Passive only proc on Kills and Assists resulting from her Ultimate.

That would also allow Riot to give her a Passive that takes more skill to benefit from.

BlackEyesBlueMay 10, 20152 votes

Kalista is far more broken then Jinx. She just gets banned more.

NimbaMay 10, 20152 votes

How isn't she balanced?

She pays a huge cost for what she's able to do, shes safe because she doesn't have a lot of counters but it's that way for Caitlyn too.

Cenobite AzazielMay 10, 20152 votes

Jinx Q rocket rangre is bullshit.

qetzelMay 10, 20152 votes

You completely ignore the fact that more people who play Jinx have a high level of experience than those who play other ADCs. Pick rate is considered together with win rate as a high pick rate suggests more unskilled players, giving the win rate a negative skew. As Jinx has a higher proportion of "mains" than the average champion, her win rate should have a positive skew.

Also, remember that she is getting balance changes. This sin't being ignored.

MatezoideMay 10, 20152 votes

So everyone that plays Jinx is a super skilled ADC player (30% of the player-base) while the mains for other ADCs are trash that cant keep up with her win-rate.

Hell, i guess Jinx's mains are some of the best players in the entire game, given other widely picked champions struggle to get even close to her win-rate.

When did Riot say she is getting further nerfs? Theres nothing on the PBE atm.

qetzelMay 10, 20152 votes

No. A higher percentage of jinx players have more experience on jinx than, say, Graves players have on Graves. As there is a higher proportion of them, this will give Jinx's win rate a positive skew.

Further nerfs? See how the ultimate change affects her first.

MatezoideMay 10, 20152 votes

So...it is exactyly what i said. You are claiming she wins more because her mains are better at the champion (ie, they are better at this game) than Graves mains play him (Or better than every other player base, in fact).

We have already seen how the ult change affected her. Her stats are still the exact same.

qetzelMay 10, 20152 votes

No, I am saying that her mains are larger in number...

MatezoideMay 10, 20152 votes

Guess everyone became an Ahri main when she had a 30% pick-rate after her rework made her broken.

There are plenty of other champions with similar pick-rates as Jinx, yet their win-rate is nowhere near her's. Are you saying these players are just band wagoners while the ones that play her are mains that have been using her since release?

qetzelMay 10, 20152 votes

No. A large proportion of those Ahri players had little to no experience on her... I don't know where you are getting these ideas from...

DrNovaMay 11, 20152 votes

He doesnt understand what your trying to say and he's not going to. Valient effort though.

MatezoideMay 11, 20152 votes

I understand perfectly. He is saying that every single person that picks Jinx mains her, which is completely ridiculous and you know it.

"Hurr durr Jinx is picked and wins a lot because they all main her, unlike every other high pick-rate champion in the game".

Then again, having a third of the playerbase main her would explain why you people seem to think it is ok for her to have these stats.

atomicwitMay 11, 20152 votes

She's more OP in Solo-Que than competitive because people don't employ split-push strategies much and often have the "group & fight" mentality. AoE crits. make short work of that strategy. Moreover, games don't end as quickly as they should (not enough/failed or mistimed turret dives and slow objective control).

MatezoideMay 11, 20151 votes

Which i do not deny, but we cant balance the game around the LCS, can we?

The fact is, Jinx is raping Ranked Solo-Que, from Bronze to Diamond, which is a big problem.

SalidfingersMay 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

When the single most picked champion in the game is on the top 6 win-rates across every elo, you got a problem.

who else would you like to see at the top 6

Right now i beg for jinx bot, because she is easy to win against. Big factor is avoid her W so the support doesn't follow up and CC chain you.

BlastermineMay 10, 20151 votes

JarvanIV item 1001 item 3134 item 3077 item 3035 summoner 14 it's your people's fault for not playing her hard counter.

AbyssphereMay 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

it's your people's fault for not playing her hard counter.

What if you don't find Jarvan fun?

JustMyBassCannonMay 10, 20151 votes

Then find another counter. If you don't want the one you're handed on a golden fucking platter, make your own and enjoy it.

AbyssphereMay 10, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Then find another counter. If you don't want the one you're handed on a golden fucking platter, make your own and enjoy it.

Calm down lol. I don't care about Jinx at all, I posted in the thread myself to say I'm happy for her to be the #1 ADC in solo queue. I'm just saying you can't say "hurr durr play a counter and kill her". I mean:

Not everyone is in the position to play an assassin (you only get one mid laner per game)
It's not always wise for your mid laner of choice being based entirely around killing the ADC - there may be other things you need from your mid based on the enemy/your team comp
It's entirely possible that if you do get mid you won't be proficient on a hard counter to Jinx - particularly if her counters are as specific as Assassin Jarvan IV
"Counters don't justify an OP champ" - something Riot themselves have stated

etc. Sure, people shouldn't cry over Jinx if they choose not to counter her -- she's not impossible to beat. But that doesn't mean there isn't something wrong with her.

JustMyBassCannonMay 10, 20151 votes

As strange as it sounds, I am calm. Calm and cold. When people ask for a counter, then say they don't like the counter, I have no more reason to invest intelligence, emotion or time in their game.

To be fair, this is a different situation; not only is it a very specific counter-pick that is only going to work out if you're specifically good with that playstyle, but you were simply presenting the point (albeit in an annoying way).

That said:

Assassins aren't the only thing that counter Marksmen. Yes, they are the main archetype for killing high-priority targets; that doesn't mean they're the only thing that works.
It's always wise to have someone in your team based on countering someone else. If your team has trouble with Katarina, and you have one person on your team specifically pick Blitzcrank, Alistar, Lissandra, Malzahar, or one of her other counter-picks, your team no longer has trouble with Katarina. Well, assuming they're a good player, anyway.
Yes, it's entirely possible that you might not be good as one of the specific counters to a specific champion. The thing is, there are specific counters, generic counters, and counter-play. The first is the Jarvan example. The second would be mentioning something available to most/all champions, like pointing out that, due to her low AS and MS, Jinx is especially susceptible to Randuin's Omen and Exhaust. The third would be gameplay, like avoiding Zap and Chompers, or not letting her get the full Gatling wind-up before a fight starts.
Totally fair point, also applicable to complexity. Not gonna debate this. Jinx is strong now, even though it's because other Marksmen have been nerfed directly and/or indirectly, and Jinx has been the least affected. I'm just frustrated with people, like the OP, who act like this has been going on for as long as she's been a champion, instead of being a recent problem.

Rand0mH3r0XMay 10, 20151 votes

LCS effect vs reality.

If Jinx is being picked a lot, then maybe you could get away with picking her counter ( really anybody with a dash, except Lucian ).

MatezoideMay 10, 20151 votes

That might be it. Since she isnt picked on the LCS very often, nobody cares that she is destroying solo-que across every single elo.

The music video that made everyone fall in love with her didnt help either.

AbyssphereMay 10, 20151 votes

I do agree that Jinx is too strong but honestly I'm happy for her to be as strong as she is. I don't mind playing against her at all compared to other strong ADCs like Kalista and Lucian.

I don't disagree that Jinx is very dominant but I'd rather her be the game's #1 ADC than anyone else. She's fun to play against, there's stuff to dodge and even when she's ahead she's far from invincible. I always enjoy laning against her, as someone who mainly plays support, and it'd be a pity for her to leave the meta and be replaced by more obnoxious ADCs.

MatezoideMay 10, 20152 votes

Sure, i would rather have a meta where she is good rather than the likes of Caitlyn or Draven. Not calling for her to be gutted, her kit is fine, just toned down.

mvargusMay 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

When the single most picked champion in the game is on the top 6 win-rates across every elo, you got a problem.

Wow, another person who refuses to learn how to play against a champion.

Jinx is easy to defeat, if you know how she works and don't make a few simple mistakes.

But you don't appear interested in learning that, just in complaining that you can't beat her.

MatezoideMay 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Wow, another person who refuses to learn how to play against a champion.

Jinx is easy to defeat, if you know how she works and don't make a few simple mistakes.

But you don't appear interested in learning that, just in complaining that you can't beat her.

I have beaten several Jinxes in the past, but it doesnt mean she isnt broken.

I bet you are another Jinx main that thinks being the most picked champion in the game with that win-rate is fine.

I love how the arguments everyone gives is "lol she is easy to beat everyone else just sucks"

mvargusMay 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I have beaten several Jinxes in the past, but it doesnt mean she isnt broken.

I bet you are another Jinx main that thinks being the most picked champion in the game with that win-rate is fine.

I love how the arguments everyone gives is "lol she is easy to beat everyone else just sucks"

Check my record. I play jinx maybe once every 2 weeks. I'm a jungle/support player who doesn't main any one champion.

And I'm not saying that everyone sucks, just that Jinx is defeatable and is not broken. She's annoying to fight, especially if the bot lane feeds her kills, but she's also got some very blatant and exploitable weaknesses and if you can keep her from farming you can put her far enough behind that she can't come back easily. But I never notice that the people who complain about her constantly have even noticed her slow attack speed, low base range, low mana at early levels, immobility and reliance on her support. The reason I've seen that a Jinx can get ahead is that you allow her to farm freely without making her pay for any trades she initiates.

As for her win-rate. I've noted in this discussion and others that a player with 100 games on a champ is going to win often over someone with only 10 games on a champ. And I've also noted that less than 20% of the player base mains ADC, or even has it as a secondary. That means that the people who do main an ADC often have a sizable advantage during the laning phase. Riot themselves have said that looking at the statistics they keep Jinx is mained far more than any other ADC. So your average jinx player is much better than the person they are facing, and that drives the win rate.

Buff some of the other ADCs, or better still fix the community so that people don't hate playing ADC and/or support because they never know what quality of partner they'll get in lane and you'll probably see more people main ADC and the win rate will come down to earth.

Leeroy JenkenzMay 11, 20151 votes

She bleeds.

LobodeMay 11, 20151 votes

Jinx has been my main adc since she was released. I always loved Harley Quinn. Before that it was Caitlin. Jinx is a little OP but is not unstoppable like trist, Lucian, or even EZ when they were overtuned. So if someone has got to be numero uno I'm fine with it being her as all those with crazy mobility don't just dominate they penta multiple times a game. If ya want to know who is complete BS right now, its kalista when used properly. I've seen kalista 1v5, now that's fvcking broken even if the 5 were completely brain dead.

atomicwitMay 11, 20151 votes

Yes, but if she is objectively balanced, it means the problem is with the players. In that case, people need to adapt strategies.