Why is this champion allowed to be as tanky as a bruiser while having the damage of Zed, while being easier to play than him, while having no resource, while having low cooldowns and insane mobility to boot. Just give her some sustain (not 
, built-in sustain) and She'll literally have everything.
Eternal Torment3 votesRiven and easy? Oh boy. Ok let me try to explain this.
Riven is not easy at all for a lot of reasons:
2nd squishiest champ ingame AND relies on snowballing.
only flat scalings in her kit and her only stat boost is percentage ad.
all of her basic spells have drawbacks which make her brutally unforgiving to mistakes. To list those drawbacks:
Q is damage AND dash that has no lock on and a very tiny fixed max range. Either you go in, hurt OR run. You cant do any at the same time.
W if not animation canceled stuns her for the whole 0.75 seconds that is animation duration making it the only spell ingame that inflicts hard cc on its own caster.
E is a dash shield which is either an emergency engage, an escape tool, a reposition or a spare way to proc her passive.
She has only Bonus AD scalings on any spell thats not her Q. Meaning she needs to build full ad to be useful throughout the game, making her the only toplaner aside from jayce thats brutally useless if you even just get 1 tank item. (Excluding boots)
she can't naturally trade, bully or duel. Meaning she is 100% skill dependant to be successful.
Rivens entire kit is one big "fuck you" to decisionmaking. You either initiate or follow, you either soak and live or burn your skills for damage and pray you get the uppee hand.
Still think shes easy?
Zëd Lęppelin1 votesFirst of all I said easier than Zed, not that riven is easy lmao because she IS really hard to play. Secondly most of your points are completely straight up wrong. Ill only correct the worst offenders:
'only flat scalings in her kit and her only stat boost is percentage ad.' Are you implying that her 20% increase from her ult's first cast doesn't affect her abilities? Because it does.
'2nd squishiest champ ingame AND relies on snowballing'
/
Riven aint no tank, but she sure as HELL isn't squishy. She doesn't need to snowball she just needs to not feed and she'll be relevant.
'E is a dash shield which is either an emergency engage, an escape tool, a reposition or a spare way to proc her passive.' Why is this a weakness?? All I see is the huge versatility of the ability listed
'W if not animation canceled stuns her for the whole 0.75 seconds that is animation duration making it the only spell ingame that inflicts hard cc on its own caster.' NO. JUST NO. Oh god this is so wrong. There's are so many abilities that technically CC the user I can't list them all but ill say some: Riven W (as you said), Warwick ult, Malzahar ult, Nautilus W, Blitzcrank ult, Twitch E, Thresh E, Cassiopeia W, Garen ult, Malphite E, Karthus ult and Renekton W are the ones I can think of off the top of head. Rivens W is just really not the only ability that forces the user to stay still for a time.
'She has only Bonus AD scalings on any spell thats not her Q. Meaning she needs to build full ad to be useful throughout the game, making her the only toplaner aside from jayce thats brutally useless if you even just get 1 tank item. (Excluding boots)'
Any Riven worth her oxygen WILL go , trust me, she can deal with tanks fine.
Eternal Torment1 votesThen you have not understood her at all. Have you seen her stats lvl 1 to 6? Its THE lowest next to sona.
And yes riven relies on snowballing. Her entire scaling is item dependant, meaning you need gold which means you need feed.
2nd the only thing she gets from her R is bonus 50 range on Q and AAs. The damage boost is percentage based meaning you gain nothing if you dont go full ad. And it is temporary making her deceptively vurnerable to kyting.
Versatility on her E is fine. But the dash is short and her shield lasts 1 second. If you waste that spell you might just willingly drop dead because you lost your sole defence in your whole kit.
You listed a lot of bull on the self stuns. What does riven W have that all the others dont? Oh yeah. NO CAST TIMERS. Its instant and it stuns her almost as long as it stuns the opponent. ANYTHING ELSE has a cast cuz its either an AA or a channeling spell. Even thresh E can be stopped mid-cast thoe thats an achievement to do. Point is its the only skill that actually self-stuns because it is tied to no cast, no channeling and no AA making it an non-breakable self-cc to herself. The only way around it is animationcanceling and the only thing that can cancel her W animation is ravenous hydra active. Again. Item dependant.
Black cleavers shred takes time to stack and it only shreds bonus armor values making it fairly weak vs tanks who stack less than 180 armor for the passive alone. People mostly build it for the passive movement speed and the CDR. Sure you can make use of all its stats but the cdr and movement speed are the only thing that are not situational on her.
Riven has had little to no balance changes on her kit AT ALL due to how balanced her kit is for her. The last change she had was over 8 or 9 months ago and it was a BUFF.
I ask again. You were saying?
PS you posted "does as much damage as zed while being easier than him" Go ahead. Edit it. I made a screenshot just incase you pull that shit
Zëd Lęppelin1 votesPS you posted "does as much damage as zed while being easier than him" Go ahead. Edit it. I made a screenshot just incase you pull that shit
?????? What why would I edit my post??? I said Riven is easier than Zed then in my second post said that I didn't think she was easy, but I DID think she was easier than Zed.
Eternal Torment1 votesYou wrote in your Reply first that she was harder than him after claiming she was easier. i screenshotted the Responses incase you edited one out for the sole sake of wronging me on purpose.
call it oversecurity if you will.
Zëd Lęppelin1 votesAh yeah I see I did say harder second time. That was a typo btw. I did mean easier.
Zëd Lęppelin1 votesAnyway I'm sorry but you seem to have an almost complete lack of game knowledge and your replies are getting more and more ridiculous and I don't have time to write another long post proving your shite wrong so imma go and delete this entire post.
Eternal Torment1 votesAnd this is why you are still sitting at -2 Downvotes.
Riven is only as strong as the guy playing her, she is the one true champion that is purely Skill-dependant when it Comes to how good she fares.
bbQsauçe2 votes[deleted]
Zëd Lęppelin1 votes^This
TBH after the salt from my last game has gone id agree she aint broken too but she is pretty damn strong.
Asayake 5150glow1 votes[{quoted}](name=Eternal Torment,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=02mZKULR,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-08-24T17:32:11.786+0000)
Riven and easy? Oh boy. Ok let me try to explain this.
Riven is not easy at all for a lot of reasons:
2nd squishiest champ ingame AND relies on snowballing.
only flat scalings in her kit and her only stat boost is percentage ad.
all of her basic spells have drawbacks which make her brutally unforgiving to mistakes. To list those drawbacks:
Q is damage AND dash that has no lock on and a very tiny fixed max range. Either you go in, hurt OR run. You cant do any at the same time.
W if not animation canceled stuns her for the whole 0.75 seconds that is animation duration making it the only spell ingame that inflicts hard cc on its own caster.
E is a dash shield which is either an emergency engage, an escape tool, a reposition or a spare way to proc her passive.
She has only Bonus AD scalings on any spell thats not her Q. Meaning she needs to build full ad to be useful throughout the game, making her the only toplaner aside from jayce thats brutally useless if you even just get 1 tank item. (Excluding boots)
she can't naturally trade, bully or duel. Meaning she is 100% skill dependant to be successful.
Rivens entire kit is one big "fuck you" to decisionmaking. You either initiate or follow, you either soak and live or burn your skills for damage and pray you get the uppee hand.
Still think shes easy?
I've never seen someone fuck up so hard trying to explain why Riven is difficult.
This is coming from a Riven main.
Eternal Torment1 votesThen I am very weirdly surprised. Because this what you see i have been taught by multiple riven mains and by thoroughly studying many High-elo riven main guides and tips on how to Play her correctly.
Most of what you see her is searchable on reliable source. Just don't ask me where, i would take days to find every single link.
If you were unaware of those weaknesses which are crutial, then either you are that naturally good....or simply had very good matchups, which sounds rather illogical compared to the former suggested point.
Besides, this is not even my first time telling this very version of riven's difficulty points, and it stands till now that you are the sole riven Player disagreeing. Relying on the information of many people who have bragging rights to prove they know her to me seems smarter than Hearing one riven player's opinion and the enforced disagreement of 2 tilted Players, from which one claims to have calmed down by now.
Alas, thanks for your remark. I will be sure to ask every top riven i know to verify again.
Asayake 5150glow1 votes[{quoted}](name=Eternal Torment,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=02mZKULR,comment-id=000100020000,timestamp=2017-08-24T21:15:37.272+0000)
Then I am very weirdly surprised. Because this what you see i have been taught by multiple riven mains and by thoroughly studying many High-elo riven main guides and tips on how to Play her correctly.
Most of what you see her is searchable on reliable source. Just don't ask me where, i would take days to find every single link.
If you were unaware of those weaknesses which are crutial, then either you are that naturally good....or simply had very good matchups, which sounds rather illogical compared to the former suggested point.
Besides, this is not even my first time telling this very version of riven's difficulty points, and it stands till now that you are the sole riven Player disagreeing. Relying on the information of many people who have bragging rights to prove they know her to me seems smarter than Hearing one riven player's opinion and the enforced disagreement of 2 tilted Players, from which one claims to have calmed down by now.
Alas, thanks for your remark. I will be sure to ask every top riven i know to verify again.
I should probably go over this more thoroughly, it's not right for me to expect you to take my word for it :/
[{quoted}](name=Eternal Torment,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=02mZKULR,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-08-24T17:32:11.786+0000)
Riven and easy? Oh boy. Ok let me try to explain this.
Riven is not easy at all for a lot of reasons:
- 2nd squishiest champ ingame AND relies on snowballing.
Due to Cleaver's high health, and due to base stats, Riven is not actually as squishy as most people would have you believe. Yes, we still melt against multiple people. Yes, we get oneshot. But we easily rock 2.6k health lategame, and combined with defensive boots and the ability to itemize defensively and still be effective, as well as lifesteal, Riven is not actually that squishy.
The part where squishy comes in, is that we're far squishier than a typical bruiser. We're not tanky enough to dive into full teams like a diver, and if we try that, we will most certainly feel squishy, and for all purposes we are squishy.
Riven doesn't rely on snowballing either. Riven doesn't ever fall off, in the hands of a good player. She's fine in a farming lane, although due to her trading potential it's very common to look for kills (as one should always try to get a lead). She'll scale perfectly fine without excess gold from kills and towers.
- only flat scalings in her kit and her only stat boost is percentage ad.
I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean, her scalings are some of the best in the game and she makes very good use out of AD items.
all of her basic spells have drawbacks which make her brutally unforgiving to mistakes. To list those drawbacks:
Q is damage AND dash that has no lock on and a very tiny fixed max range. Either you go in, hurt OR run. You cant do any at the same time.
Actually, Q does have a 'lock on', it makes us go towards that target. When cast without the lock on, it does have a fixed range, but that lock on is exactly what makes the fast combo possible.
Also, I would not call it a drawback, precisely. It's a directional dash with multiple charges and hard CC attached, meaning it's a very strong dps spell, it can be used to help engage, and it can also be used to escape or continue to fight. There aren't many drawbacks besides it's low range, but rather, she gets more choices.
- W if not animation canceled stuns her for the whole 0.75 seconds that is animation duration making it the only spell ingame that inflicts hard cc on its own caster.
Well, it stuns her for .25 seconds when animation canceled, basically all of Riven's abilities are clunky af without animation canceling. However, it's far from the only spell to do so. In fact, almost every ability has an animation that can be canceled. Lucian Q used to be a great example, animation canceling let you follow up with the auto faster, but then they change that.
The only time when this ability is a drawback is when it's missed. Although it really sucks to miss it.
- E is a dash shield which is either an emergency engage, an escape tool, a reposition or a spare way to proc her passive.
Again, none of those are drawbacks. It's a short ranged dash with a shield on top. It's got plenty of uses, but the only bad part about it is that it's her short ranged.
- She has only Bonus AD scalings on any spell thats not her Q. Meaning she needs to build full ad to be useful throughout the game, making her the only toplaner aside from jayce thats brutally useless if you even just get 1 tank item. (Excluding boots)
Has really nothing to do with her usefulness, unless you're counting usefulness as a tank. Doesn't have much to do with difficult either.
- she can't naturally trade, bully or duel. Meaning she is 100% skill dependant to be successful.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'naturally', but Riven is really, really good at trading. Her dueling is one of, if not the, best in the game. Of course it's skill dependent, but once you've got basic mechanics down it's not that hard.
Rivens entire kit is one big "fuck you" to decisionmaking. You either initiate or follow, you either soak and live or burn your skills for damage and pray you get the uppee hand.
Still think shes easy?
I admit you weren't quite as wrong as I said you were, I skimmed when writing that :/
However, a large portion of Riven's difficulty lies within her combo's. When mastered, you can play Riven almost exactly the same way as any other bruiser/skirmisher/assassin and do perfectly fine. She doesn't require amazing decisionmaking to be good, but with amazing decisionmaking she can become downright amazing.
When I play Riven I don't really pay much attention to decision making. I pretty much try to trade whenever it's optimal, like any other bruiser. I go in when I think I'll get a kill. I flash in to oneshot out of position squishies, like any assassin. Of course, embedded within that are fast combo's, W+E doublecasts, W+Q doublecasts, Tiamat cancels, R cancels, Q dancing, doublecast combo's, CC chaining, and manipulating my CC and dashes to take minimal damage. But all I'm really thinking about is just trading. You don't need to pay much attention to each individual cast in most matchups, due to being in toplane you rarely need to juke skillshots either.
And those combo's really aren't as difficult as they sound. I basically have like 6 that I use in each game.
There's plenty that you can do, but for the most part, it's redundant and not needed. Rarely will I ever do something not in there, if my abilities are down I prefer to back off and wait instead of improvising. Which, when all is said and done, is usually the smarter move.
KnightOfEloHell1 votesIdk why people think she's strong. Play Morde with exaust and ignite and get super fed.
Gg ez Mordekiaser es numero uno
Zëd Lęppelin2 votesAs much as I love the fact that the cult of Morde that exists on the boards I personally don't play top (especially not Morde) that much I just fucking hate the character.
KnightOfEloHell1 votesOkay, so than just play melee sustain champs into Riven.
Morde, Olaf, Aatrox are my go to's.
Olaf: Rush Ravenous, Q her to make her dashed useless, w to outsustain her damage, and e for true damage on a squishy melee carry.
Aatrox: His passive is tricky to manage, but if you learn it, it's pretty nice. Stack blood well with w on minions and e for tiny trades, than when you are 80% full, Q on her to knock her up, and AA the shit out of her wit Bllod Price. E her when she tries do dash away, exaust, continue to AA with Blood Thirst. Rinse and repeat, once you have your ult, her dashes are useless because the additional range and steriods.
Gg ez, sustain melee champs dominate Riven, MEE-YOW
Zëd Lęppelin1 votesAs I said I rarely play top but when I do I go Warwick into Riven and just play really aggressive all lane, she misses minions cos she cant trade with me and cant match my sustain after trades too. My issue is when im in another lane and a 10/0 riven comes dashing into my lane to Q, W, Q auto attack me for all my hp in like 1.001 seconds.
Asayake 5150glow1 votesAs I said I rarely play top but when I do I go Warwick into Riven and just play really aggressive all lane, she misses minions cos she cant trade with me and cant match my sustain after trades too. My issue is when im in another lane and a 10/0 riven comes dashing into my lane to Q, W, Q auto attack me for all my hp in like 1.001 seconds.
People tend to be "as tanky as a bruiser while having the damage of Zed, while being easier to play than him, while having no resource, while having low cooldowns and insane mobility to boot" when insanely fed.
It's not just Riven.