Okay, I get that Vayne is squishy as fuck, I get she's supposed to ignore all defenses, I get that she's supposed to have mobility. But why the fuck is she the only ADC/marksman with a non-ultimate, low-cooldown hard CC(minus off-meta ones like Twisted Fate and Gnar). Heck, she has Tristana's ult with a stun and a little less knockback.
So could we please either replace it, or at least remove that damned stun(see what I did there)?
Cloud2737 votesBecause unlike other champions, she has no abilities that hit multiple targets (except with items), and she has really short range, and her movement is actually impaired when she's not walking towards someone.
ApexInTheCircle2 votesBecause unlike other champions, she has no abilities that hit multiple targets (except with items), and she has really short range, and her movement is actually impaired when she's not walking towards someone.
Her movement is not impaired. It's the same as any other adc. Impaired would mean she is snared or slowed when she's not chasing which isn't the case.
Sira Ren1 votesThere's a lot of things Vayne doesn't have. No Dashes (Lucian, Graves, Kalista mobility, Corki W, Sivir R), lowest AA range, and minor things like that. These things make her very susceptible to easy ganks, unless she uses her stealth. Vayne's kit is built beautifully just like Lucians, and Sivir's. I don't think there's any problem with Condemn. But I'm biased so yeah.
Shroom Junkie1 votesThere's a lot of things Vayne doesn't have. No Dashes (Lucian, Graves, Kalista mobility, Corki W, Sivir R), lowest AA range, and minor things like that. These things make her very susceptible to easy ganks, unless she uses her stealth. Vayne's kit is built beautifully just like Lucians, and Sivir's. I don't think there's any problem with Condemn. But I'm biased so yeah.
Vayne does have a dash, her Q, tumble. It also gives her a basic attack buff. Her AA range is a problem, but with her Q and passive it isn't that hard to get in range.
Spicy Rice1 votesThere's a lot of things Vayne doesn't have. No Dashes (Lucian, Graves, Kalista mobility, Corki W, Sivir R), lowest AA range, and minor things like that. These things make her very susceptible to easy ganks, unless she uses her stealth. Vayne's kit is built beautifully just like Lucians, and Sivir's. I don't think there's any problem with Condemn. But I'm biased so yeah.
Dafuq? I'm pretty sure that tumble is considered a dash, however short.
Also, 550 range is definately not the lowest. It is the average range of adcs. Lowest is graves (or urgot if you play him adc)
Shroom Junkie1 votesBecause unlike other champions, she has no abilities that hit multiple targets (except with items), and she has really short range, and her movement is actually impaired when she's not walking towards someone.
She still has her Q though, and if all goes wrong she can ult and be invisible for a second after, and I'm pretty sure the cooldown was like 8 seconds or so, meaning she could run quite well. Plus I think her Q is one of, if not the longest dashes in League(as I said).
Nytemaric1 votesTumble's range is super short, she can barely use it to escape anything. It's mainly a repositioning tool.
JustMyBassCannon3 votesBut why the fuck is she the only ADC/marksman with a non-ultimate, low-cooldown hard CC(minus off-meta ones like Twisted Fate and Gnar).
Jinx still exists, y'know.
XLC1 votesJinx has no hard CC.
JustMyBassCannon2 votesIn news today; rooting is no longer considered hard CC.
Sooko1 votesI could have sworn it wasn't, but I might be wrong. I always had the idea that only hard CC interrupted channels. Again, I am kind of outdated in this CC business
EDIT: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Crowd_Control#Categorization
Yep, the wikia matches what I said
JustMyBassCannon1 votesCool, cool, I use the wiki on a regular basis for a lot of stuff, so I'm not going to just disregard what it says.
So I'll move on to pointing out that Draven, Quinn, Jayce and Kennen are all Marksmen with non-ultimate hard CC.
Sooko1 votesYeah, I didn't know you were arguing about that, and I do not disagree with you about that.
I just saw the rooting reply and checked.
JustMyBassCannon1 votesOh, I'm totally fine with having my own argument shot down. It's all part of how debating works anyway. Also, it keeps me from making the same mistake in the future.
Shroom Junkie1 votesJinx still exists, y'know.
Pretty sure that a root isn't considered hard-CC... maybe I'm wrong, but either way, Jinx doesn't have an escape(dash, speed boost[unless she gets a kill, assist, or takes a tower, which is doubtful if she's getting ganked and if she is then they failed their gank]), nor anything to chase with besides her W slow if she lands it.
Nytemaric2 votesThere's quinn and draven with small displacements
Shroom Junkie1 votesThere's quinn and draven with small displacements
Quinn has a displacement?
JustMyBassCannon1 votesShort duration, but yes, she has a knockback on her E.
JustMyBassCannon1 votesPretty sure that a root isn't considered hard-CC...
Maybe I missed the memo, but it was definitely considered hard CC when I last talked about the specifics of crowd control. The only ones considered soft CC were blind, silence and MS/AS reduction.
maybe I'm wrong,
And the same goes for me
but either way, Jinx doesn't have an escape(dash, speed boost[unless she gets a kill, assist, or takes a tower, which is doubtful if she's getting ganked and if she is then they failed their gank]), nor anything to chase with besides her W slow if she lands it.
And Vayne doesn't have 700 range, or a 1500-range shot, or a 900/950 range AoE line, or a global range %HP nuke. Fancy that; different champs have different strengths.
Also, Vayne's speed boost specifically only activates when she's chasing an enemy champion.
ApexInTheCircle2 votesAs much as I like Vayne, and think she's in a good place. I have to agree with you on this one. It gives her too much peel for her mobility. Sure she has a fairly small range in terms of most adcs but she has everything she needs to basically be a master of what she does.
She's got a gap close/ disengage attack amplifier. A very nice tank shredder/ damage steroid A disengage/Situational* CC a very good passive for making sure she sticks to you. And we can't forget he amazing ult that gives her stealth(not too much but just enough to make sure to escape and or kill who she wants)
*With her tumble and the way her ult is set up she can basically guarantee a stun when she wants.
IMO She doesn't need the stun, maybe a slow but the stun is too much.
Nytemaric1 votesWithout cdr Condemn is 20 seconds at rank one and is usually maxed last. Max rank it's 12 seconds, meaning she'll only get to use it once, maybe twice per teamfight. If you know about condemn, it's not hard to avoid getting stunned by it. It's not like she creates a wall behind you after she uses it.
ApexInTheCircle1 votesWithout cdr Condemn is 20 seconds at rank one and is usually maxed last. Max rank it's 12 seconds, meaning she'll only get to use it once, maybe twice per teamfight. If you know about condemn, it's not hard to avoid getting stunned by it. It's not like she creates a wall behind you after she uses it.
In a perfect world all team fights would take place in mid lane where she has trouble pulling it off. But the reality of the matter is, team fights usually happen in river jungle or in base were there are ample amounts of objects to get nailed to.
Nytemaric1 votesThat's true but that's why it's important to pick where you fight and coordinate with your team. Just because a fight starts in the jungle doesn't mean it has to stay there. You wouldn't fight inside the dragon pit against a Mega Gnar. If you know your opponent's weaknesses, exploit them. Vayne is extremely squishy and relies on that stun to kill before she gets killed herself. Usually if she misses it, she's dead.