What I think of the LCS

III BAKURYU III ·Jun 2, 2019·1 votes·1,933 views

- I'm talking about the LCS in which I don't want this to be taken down from the E-Sports board. There's literally a board on the Esports that says " This Game sucks" but yet, MY post gets deleted? OK

let's do this....again

First off, WTH happened to Fantasy LCS? - Answered https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2019/05/2019-summer-split-fantasy-update/ is the topic that talks about Fantasy LCS

Thank You Prandine for the article.

Secondly, Why hasn't Riot ever created a pick'em for the LCS? With bullets of 5-10 questions and the person that answers such questions correctly gets a X amount of free tickets to Detroit for the Finals or something? How many Kills total will there be this split? Total Dragons, barons etc stuff like that. Lost opportunity!

This meta kinda sucks. No, this meta does suck! I'm sorry but there's close to 0 "Outplay" of watching someone or even playing myself in a meta where you get stunned ONCE and you are dead! not to mention, games are so short to the point where it's so easy to die often that your honestly just watching a gray screen 75% of the time. Literally it takes 1-2 AA's to chunk someone below 25% hp - to the point where there's no "outplay" to be made, the fight was all ready settled just from poke alone.

Current META I understand Riot wants this crazy meta to continue for the future(Bet your bottom until after Worlds) so NA can actually be decent on the International stage and such but it's not even enjoyable to watch. So far the NA LCS is currently around the 32 min mark with 5 games played SO far - Typically splits are slower at the start and become a faster pace as the splits continue in which, annoys me because NA LCS alone could be around the average 28-29 min mark with around 27 kills total.

Not going to go into detail(As I already talked about this on Youtube) but when games are like MSI this past year( 30 mins per game with around 29 kills per game) it doesn't actually create "Moments" and that's what we all remember, right? Moments.

Meta RANT Think of League as a movie - Right now League is the "Transformer" movies instead of a good balance. Slower paced movies with memorable scenes Titanic, Goodfellas, even Batman the Dark Knight was a slow burner but yet, had action scenes good action scenes but people remember more so the "Interrogation" scene than any explosion scene. League right now is explosion after explosion.

Remember Worlds 2016 with Team Solomid? Doublelift died 3 times against SSG at Worlds 2016 and one of those was with the infamous (Victor ult Lucain dash) that is still being talked about to this day! Meanwhile D-Lift died 3+ times in 10 games at MSI a month ago and none were infamous/famous/cared because it happened so frequently it lost any "WOW" factor. Febiven solo Killed Faker twice at MSI 2015 - Do you think it would be talked about today as a "moment" if Febiven killed Faker 10 times??? Not really - NYG vs NE 2007 Superbowl is regarded as one of - if not the Greatest Superbowl of All-Time because while it was a slow burner - it had 3-4 plays in that game alone that are in the TOP #10 all time plays - Look at NE vs ATL or NE vs PHI in which both were high scoring games but aren't talked about because they didn't have that methodical play to them - instead, it was point after point after point after point - League - Kill after kill after kill after kill after kill.

2013 -2015 League was a slower paced game from solo Q to the pro scene 2016-17 was honestly in my opinion the most balanced point. 2018-2019 League is chaotic and fiesta driven.

I think we're forgetting what made League.........League and that's a fun game but a methodical slow paced game - in a world of all ready fast paced fight/kill 24/7 games!(Mortal Kombat, all of those fighting games, Call of Duty,) the list goes on and on. All I'm saying is this...... league has lost it's identity and is becoming a sell-out as another mainstream game that at it's current state.......will most likely be forgotten about like Fortnite or Pubg

OK, downvote this.......hate it..... do what you will.

I said my peace -

7 Comments

GeminiRuneJun 2, 20192 votes

This is a bad rant if you ask me. I saw the old one and was prepared to comment to it as well. And I'm pretty sure it was removed because that's what it was: a rant; hardly even about the LCS and more about the history of competitive.

Yeah Fantasy isn't around again. Yeah I wish they could do more with Pick'Em and not some "Super-Stat Wizard" challenge like implied. They're often results based, not numerical. That'd be borderline impossible if that were the case.

Your rant on meta is based on a single day sample size of ONE REGION in summer in comparison to...MSI. And I'm almost going to bet that it was the conclusion of the tournament alone. Yeah that's fair.

Let's go on to meta. Huh...chaotic and fiesta driven. You mean the same way fans for years have made fun of their own western base for it yet SHRUG the LPL or LCK when it happens? Basically you have to think like: slow controlled game = bad region, kill-heavy game = bad region. That's how the western base often acts! Mind you this change all happens after what was undeniably the slowest meta ever competitively and the same negativity reared its head. There's no winning.

Then this last part....

I think we're forgetting what made League.........League and that's a fun game but a methodical slow paced game - in a world of all ready fast paced fight/kill 24/7 games!(Mortal Kombat, all of those fighting games, Call of Duty,) the list goes on and on. All I'm saying is this...... league has lost it's identity and is becoming a sell-out as another mainstream game that at it's current state.......will most likely be forgotten about like Fortnite or Pubg

League is and has been known as the "ever-changing" game. That is its identity! No other game with a dedicated competitive scene keeps up with patches to the pace that League does. The game is always in a state of adaptation and never truly goes stale for the pros and the general players. If that were the case, then your so called balanced meta in 2016-17 would still be rather disliked as it was then.
MOBAs are not fighting games. Fighting games are not shooters. Shooters are not Rocket League. Hearthstone is not Pokemon. Randomized Speedrunning is not battle royale. Point here is, every game has a variable of difference. You think League (and Dota specifically) are fading to the pace of other games cause they consume 30+ mins of time per game from start to finish, you are horribly mistaken. What are you wanting? 40 seconds? 3 minutes? 8 minutes? 15 minutes? 94 minutes?

Sell-out....most likely be forgotten....pfft yeah right! You make it sound like League was around just the other year when it's been around for a decade now (Dota longer). If it was gonna fade out, it would have already. When the hype of Overwatch was around - didn't die. When the hype of PUBG was around - didn't die. When the hype of Fortnite was around - didn't die. A game never truly dies if the community still has an existing support for it. Go see a handful of fighting games for that.

[sg-shisa]

III BAKURYU III Jun 2, 20191 votes

So talking about the "history" of the LCS isn't talking about the LCS? What?

You can't tell me after Week 1 day 1 of the NA LCS isn't going to be 80-90% similar to what the rest of the season will be like?
About 15 mins into every game one team are literally inside their base.......doing nothing but defending but the annoying side is there's no DEFENSE in league anymore........NONE!
Just change the map from SR to Aram - Done

" slow controlled game = bad region, kill-heavy game = bad region. That's how the western base often acts"

I get that 100% Some teams are however not methodical(JIN AIR) and have year long games. So again, I understand.
Let's not kid ourselves here that the Western(NA) are action hungry, they(we) want MORE! MORE! action, more kills, more fiesta games. But at the same time faster paced games because our attention span is at a all-time low. We don't understand why X team does this or that at this or that time so just speed up the process to make ' NA Cindy Lou Who' happy and at the same time, help NA teams because we aren't at the same level as the Korean/Europeans when it comes to strategy and understand to give up certain objectives.

Power of Evil often talked about it around 2018 with his teammates and how he would have longer games in Europe but here(NA) his teammates would tell him they needed to do stuff NOW, NOW!

Point is - NA was given a crutch because when push comes to shove can't hang with the big boys when Korea/Eu tend to play scaling champions while playing safe and intelligent.

" 40 seconds? 3 minutes? 8 minutes? 15 minutes? 94 minutes" Well I guess I would like to see competitive league of legends instead of knowing how most games will end by 15 mins. Maybe it's certain teams but overall, it's been like this for about a year now.
2018 Worlds - Some people thought it was great( mainly and only mainly because NA(Cloud 9) wasn't complete garbage and the other Western teams did great, with upsets, Korea didn't have all 3 teams make it out of groups, different region won etc - Yes, pick em's around the world were "destroyed" However, the games were s$it. For the most part many of the games were just stomps.
Yeah, that's what I want from a meta while watching PROS play..... 20 min stomps.

" You make it sound like League was around just the other year when it's been around for a decade now" If league stays the course than yes, yes I do see league falling apart in the future. It's no secret viewership has been falling off each split and what do you know the meta from year to year as gotten faster and faster........'Why buy the cow if I can get the milk for free'

Yeah, some games are still popular but the titles tend to be forgotten is what I meant. Think of it as COD: modern Warfare - Remember playing it? Remember after X amount of time cheaters, people under the map etc were all over the place? Instead of fixing the issue they just made another game title after another, after another. The genre of such won't be gone but the game itself will be.

Yes, League's identity is that it changes
Khazix " Change is good" - but it's not.......... it's not and maybe you don't see it now but after awhile you will see it(or you won't IDK)

Interesting enough about Clutch and Optic and their spots in the LCS " Better to sell too early than too late"

[vlad-salute]

GeminiRuneJun 2, 20191 votes

History of LCS and history of competitive League are two different metrics here. Not every region is identified as "LCS," hence why I speak your rant is misleading.

You can't tell me after Week 1 day 1 of the NA LCS isn't going to be 80-90% similar to what the rest of the season will be like?

Nope

About 15 mins into every game one team are literally inside their base.......doing nothing but defending but the annoying side is there's no DEFENSE in league anymore........NONE!

This literally did not happen yesterday. This is over-exaggerating.

Just change the map from SR to Aram - Done

Do provide how the format will go for that? Will we be doing all random every game? Blind Pick? Draft? Butchers Bridge Specials? Ghostwalkers? Cmon man...

I get that 100% Some teams are however not methodical(JIN AIR) and have year long games. So again, I understand. Let's not kid ourselves here that the Western(NA) are action hungry, they(we) want MORE! MORE! action, more kills, more fiesta games. But at the same time faster paced games because our attention span is at a all-time low.

Attention span at an all time low? Is that an excuse? Cause that's sure as hell not just western problems.

We don't understand why X team does this or that at this or that time so just speed up the process to make ' NA Cindy Lou Who' happy and at the same time, help NA teams because we aren't at the same level as the Korean/Europeans when it comes to strategy and understand to give up certain objectives.

Aggression can be strategy. Or have we not seen Invictus Gaming both succeed and fail at the very thing? I like action games with a variety of kills. But I'm not going to write off a bad game based on the amount of kills it had. That'd be unfair. If a game of multiple 3 for 3s or 4 for 3s was nothing but an identified "fiesta" which as said is often touted as a bad game, then at what point would a fan ever identify a good or great game played by both teams?

I don't care about levels of play either. The problem is people will funnel their thoughts to A in comparison to B. To me every team plays on the same bar at the start. The good teams that win (or make it close) and show the certainty of belief that they can be a contender internationally (whether it be through their macro, individual talent, and/or champ pool) get the peg up. When they gather together for the internationals, then the other tangibles wrap together. Doesn't really answer above though.

Power of Evil often talked about it around 2018 with his teammates and how he would have longer games in Europe but here(NA) his teammates would tell him they needed to do stuff NOW, NOW! Point is - NA was given a crutch because when push comes to shove can't hang with the big boys when Korea/Eu tend to play scaling champions while playing safe and intelligent.

Pretty sure DL went on this yesterday about how NA's scene plays that 70-30 style consistently rather than a 50-50 style which is and has been a trend that exists in Korea and EU and like forever in China. That GO mentality applying both of those ratios...well you can see the product.

Well I guess I would like to see competitive league of legends instead of knowing how most games will end by 15 mins. Maybe it's certain teams but overall, it's been like this for about a year now.

First of all this was a jab of reference of other competitive titles:

40 seconds - How long single Marvel vs Capcom games could take
3 minutes - How long single Tekken games could take
8 minutes - The default time limit of Smash Melee
15 minutes - It's somewhere out there. Probably Halo rounds. I don't remember. I just spit that out
94 minutes - Don't even need to say.

All I'm saying is, why do you want a competitive MOBA to suddenly be Nexus Blitz the game?

2018 Worlds - Some people thought it was great( mainly and only mainly because NA(Cloud 9) wasn't complete garbage and the other Western teams did great, with upsets, Korea didn't have all 3 teams make it out of groups, different region won etc - Yes, pick em's around the world were "destroyed"

2018 Worlds, fans were forfeiting the event the moment before it even got rolling! This is an example of let the shit happen then react later!

However, the games were s$it. For the most part many of the games were just stomps. Yeah, that's what I want from a meta while watching PROS play..... 20 min stomps.

Yet fans stayed glued because the expectation wasn't the reality. And that's the beauty of it. By the way, more exaggerating. The worlds average game time was like 32-33 mins with just main stage. Nitpicking the stomp games, why don't we?

Yeah, some games are still popular but the titles tend to be forgotten is what I meant. Think of it as COD: modern Warfare - Remember playing it? Remember after X amount of time cheaters, people under the map etc were all over the place? Instead of fixing the issue they just made another game title after another, after another. The genre of such won't be gone but the game itself will be.

Competitive gaming takes different approaches depending on the game genre. Your example of COD is based on what was wrong with the current game and what future titles did to reprieve that. Also let's note: the ability to effectively patch and maintain a single title wasn't a major thing until a couple of years ago! That's why we don't have a Street Fighter 6 or Tekken 8 looming by now. While the latter is absolutely coming, the point is a title game doesn't just outright die. They evolve. And sometimes it may or may not work. Example - MvC: Infinite.

Shooters that aren't Halo 3 may fall to the wayside from the newer title. But I can sure throw you some titles I know aren't as forgotten in fighting games: Street Fighter 2, 3, and Alpha 2, Capcom vs SNK 2, King of Fighters '98 and 13, Killer Instinct, the entire freaking Smash Bros and MvC series. They may not appear on all major event lineups but there is a following and an existing community out there. That in no way says the game is forgotten.

Yes, League's identity is that it changes.

...

[{quoted}](name=Itz D Exorcist ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=ylWEByMr,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-06-02T16:26:08.692+0000)

All I'm saying is this...... league has lost it's identity

[sg-lux-2]

" Change is good" - but it's not.......... it's not and maybe you don't see it now but after awhile you will see it(or you won't IDK)

Seen it myself for 8 years; longer and more acknowledged than most console titles and notable the CoD you touted. When's it being forgotten?

III BAKURYU III Jun 3, 20191 votes

NA LCS 5 Games sample size

The winning teams
19 Total Kills pre 15 mins
68 Total Kills

4 Towers pre 15 mins
52 Towers total

5 Dragons pre 15 mins
13 Dragons total

5 Barons total
.................................................. The Losing teams 13 Total kills pre 15 mins 32 Total kills

1 Tower pre 15 mins 12 Towers total

2 Dragons pre 15 mins 7 Dragons total

0 Barons total

                            *No barons pre 15 mins ;]

Worlds 2018 Day 1 - 4 *24 Games Winning Teams 326 Kills 220 Towers 53 Dragons 23 Barons 13.58 9.16 2.20 0.95

Losing Teams 134 Kills 46 Towers 22 Dragons 3 Barons 5.58 1.91 0.91 0.125

Just really hard fought games

Worlds 2018 kills towers dragons barons 13.58 9.16 2.20 0.95 Winning Teams 5.58 1.91 0.91 0.125 Losing Teams

NA LCS 13.6 10.4 2.6 1.0 Winning Teams 6.4 2.4 1.4 *0.00 Losing Teams

LPL 19.6 9.3 3.22 1.11 Winning Teams 6.5 2.4 0.88 0.11 Losing Teams

I see a pattern.....

Do provide how the format will go for that? Will we be doing all random every game? Blind Pick? Draft? Butchers Bridge Specials? Ghostwalkers? Cmon man...

Draft, so you can ban out Pyke

" 94 minutes - Don't even need to say"

Starcraft ?

" Yet fans stayed glued because the expectation wasn't the reality. And that's the beauty of it. By the way, more exaggerating. The worlds average game time was like 32-33 mins with just main stage. Nitpicking the stomp games, why don't we?"

4 series were sweeps( IG over G2 wasn't close, Fnatic over C9 wasn't close, C9 over Afreeca wasn't close and IG over FNC wasn't close). 2 teams went 0-6

28 Total series Worlds 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 11 total sweeps

7 Total series Worlds 2018 4 total sweeps

Spring Playoffs of LCS, LCK, LPL, LEC and LMS 25 Total series 11 total sweeps

Yes, League's identity is that it changes.

...

Itz D Exorcist (NA) - about 11 hours ago

All I'm saying is this...... league has lost it's identity

It's constantly changing but it's changing for the worse now, in my opinion. Makes sense now?

Seen it myself for 8 years; longer and more acknowledged than most console titles and notable the CoD you touted. When's it being forgotten?

Give it time. By 2021 the competitive side of things wont' be what it 'is' today. Maybe not just fall over and die but League/or just the pro scene, lcs etc will have one foot in the grave.

[sg-zephyr]

BigBellBruteJun 2, 20192 votes

Some things.

Would you rather have a long boring game with 1 memorable moment or a less boring game with no memorable moments because they're all pretty good.
Two things I see right now.
A. The game is a bit too snowbally.
B I think the next team fight wins it stage does indeed come a bit too soon for my tastes.
C9 took 35.25, TL 29.26, CLG 31.55 Optic took 38.49 GG, 28.31 So even though the average was 32 somewhere, the more competitive games took longer. Is the problem the meta itself or that some of the teams, particularly Fox and 100t looked terrible day 1? It did not help things that the marquis matchup, TL vs TSM completely disappointed and didn't turn out to be the rock em sock em robots match from a competitive standpoint it was billed to be. TL dumpstered them.
Oh and it's only one day.
Let me get this straight. Let us just back up a bit. I seriously need some clarification. You think Titanic was a good movie? :)

III BAKURYU III Jun 2, 20191 votes

1.) Honestly, I never thought of slower paced games boring to watch. I understand say 7-7 in kills 35 mins may seem boring to some but not to me personally. In PRO play you know players ARE trying to kill each other etc constantly, in lane etc but can't do so because it's a battle of wits between the players around the map. That's what I love to see.

Now it's hard to actually enjoy watching pros play because it feels like I could do it better(AH............ Riot's selling point discovered)

2.) A.) Yes, the games are too snowbally - It's not fun to watch at all! Or to even play and that's on the winning side and losing side in each game. I personally don't feel like I did anything incredible by just getting a 1-2 K gold lead pre 15 mins and winning off insane damage.
One way to limit damage(That's the root of the problem) would be.......TANKS(insert lightning background noise) the problem about such is it seems people don't want tanks to return or that's what I've been seeing for awhile now.
So on 1 hand you have snowbally games and in the other you have a more controlled style game.

3.) Number of things

The meta will cause games to end around in my mind 29.55 -30.33.
Echo Fox - It's no secret EF has Apollo and I think EF were afraid because of how fast paced the meta is they couldn't afford to gamble on him when his history has shown to be in numerous amounts of 40+ min games.
" Can't teach old dogs new tricks" I guess, idk.
100 Thieves in my honest opinion(real) I think the players don't care. I think they got their $ and they are all set. If that's not the case -

Soligo is OK(first day of LCS) wasn't bad but I just don't see it.

Secondly, I think the meta F-ED the team up. Ssumday is use to the longer games to split push, farm up etc. He's never been a group up early player - even on KT Rolster he would just split push(Ask Dyrus that 2015 Worlds) and farm for late game. 100 Thieves were a slow paced team but the meta, among other things(communication issues Bang/Aphromoo, new players Amazing/Soligo) but overall, I think 100 Thieves will be bad this split and Echo Fox are right next to them.

4.) Maybe, maybe I'm overreacting. Become one of those "back in my day" people

5.) Since I watched it as a kid I think it's amazing and I would be lying if I said I still to this day didn't cry. ;]

HeeroTXJun 4, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Some things.

Would you rather have a long boring game with 1 memorable moment or a less boring game with no memorable moments because they're all pretty good.

This is basically asking which is better: Basketball or Soccer? One has scoring fast and furious all game long and the other has probing and feints, looking for weaknesses to exploit capped with a sudden burst for a score. I know people that hate soccer because it is "boring" and I know people that think it's worthless to watch more than the last 2 minutes of any basketball game because the prior 38 don't really matter. NEITHER of those views is accurate (IMO) and both display that non-fans simply aren't going to bother to build an appreciation for the game on their own.

When League is at it's BEST, I feel like a viewer SHOULD be able to appreciate a highlight play and/or the chess-match of strengths against weaknesses. I feel like the current META removes the latter.