so is Gosu gonna be DL's replacement? or are they gonna have another "let's find our adc"

EpicMusic·Nov 6, 2016·2 votes·1,671 views

turtle we need you back

29 Comments

R7 FactorNov 7, 20162 votes

I heard rumors of Voyboy on twitter

III BAKURYU III Nov 7, 20162 votes

Fabbyy- Still maybe under contract with TL and I personally don't care about his game. I was so hyped when I heard he was joining the LCS but once I saw that he was a 1 trick pony on Draven; I gave up. Look at Fabbyy in lane, people want to talk about the Sneaky memes in lane look no further. This dude does NOTHING in lane. The lane will just be a ghost lane as it won't do anything.

Voyboy/QTPIE- I really doubt they will stop making 10 min videos for youtube and the ability to eat cheetos 24/7 while streaming making that good $ to play for the LCS again. They joked about joining the LCS but that is what it is a "joke". Not saying you can't have fun but TSM isn't Curse or Dig; the org wants to win and not just "have fun" at this point in the League scene.

Altec is with the C9 challenger squad. People want to talk about D-Lift doing nothing but CS 24/7, Altec fits that description perfectly.

Wh1teWu1fNov 7, 20161 votes

Fabbyy announced free agency shortly after TL was eliminated from the Gauntlet, probably because Jynthe was taking the LCS spot, and his other competition is Piglet....

What are your thoughts on Forgiven? He's mentioned that he's looking for offers from pretty much any LCS team, and is also asking that he gets picked up in a different region, so TSM would be able to fit his accommodations to the point, it would just become a question of how well he works with the team and such.

III BAKURYU III Nov 7, 20161 votes

Yeah Forgiven is great but like you said " how well he works with the team" I don't know the whole story but his time with OG where he just didn't play League when he was still under contract with Origen and how he only played Overwatch was something that just bothers me.

I think he was tired of League but I'm sure his time off from playing League did help as well as having to be apart of Worlds and getting a chance to play at the highest level really raised his game.
The other thing is his history of being toxic.

Another is this is for 1 split unless he WOWS TSM and instead of bringing back D-Lift they keep Forgiven. That's something I'm sure a veteran just doesn't want to hear at this point of their careers.
" Ok bud thank your for your efforts and hardwork now we are letting you go for our other player that was taking a Split vacation"-TSM Front office. You know just doesn't sound great when you're a 5+ year LCS Veteran.

Forgiven is a veteran as I pointed out and looking at the TSM roster Hauntzer- He should still be playing for 2-3 more years, same for Biofrost. Bjergsen/Sven and D-Lift are 5+ years into the LCS careers and at some point TSM needs to think for the Future instead of just relying on their Talent that they do have for X amount of years. Bjerg/Sven/D-Lift won't play forever and bringing in another vet isn't the right way to go.

Ale non è maleNov 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=III BAKURYU III ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=ih5QWRWE,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2016-11-07T08:51:59.989+0000)

Yeah Forgiven is great but like you said " how well he works with the team" I don't know the whole story but his time with OG where he just didn't play League when he was still under contract with Origen and how he only played Overwatch was something that just bothers me.

Forg1ven didn't work in OG because there were play style conflicts between him and Hybrid - and later on personal conflicts with Hybrid that was slandering him and was in general unprofessional and toxic with the entire team so they kicked him - (see the leaked Skype group EU LCS drama)

More in general a lot of his former mates have talked well about him, he is just too competitive and tend to bash the others when they don't live up to their max level, that's where the "toxicity" label come from

And Forg1ven is clearly better than Doublelift as player, if TSM ever picks him up, Double is likely gone because no way they can justify re-inserting him in the roster ahead of Forg1ven (unless they take an even better import than Firg1ven in another position, lel)

III BAKURYU III Nov 7, 20161 votes

Is Forgiven a better player than D-Lift that is debatable; however is Forgiven a great player YES! I see it like this both Forgiven and D-Lift had similar careers before D-Lift joined TSM. Both players were great ADCs' players and could turn up the heat whenever their team needed them but at the same time neither players really had a (team) in their early careers.

Forgiven was on C.Wolves and while they were meh standing wise and performance it was really the (Forgiven/Amazing show) while the other players were just "meh" players like I can't name 1 other player on his team at the time.
D-Lift was on CLG for most of his career and while his Normal season split were great his playoff history on CLG was bad, I would argue it was really his Mid laner Link's fault in most of the Playoff games that they lost because of him.

Overall both players are really good in the regular split but when it comes down to Playoffs neither could and really haven't shown much "promise"

The thing I don't like about their playstyles would be Forgiven has what I call the "EU Superstar KDA Syndrome" he and other EU players(Rekkles,Froggen(when he was in EU) when they would lose games you look at the boxscore/KDA of the players and Forgiven but mostly Rekkles and the other EU superstars KDA's are X-0-X where they don't seem to care as much about winning more so than their KDA.
I mean if you lose a game but your stats are 9-0-1 you can say " well I was 9-0 it was my TEAMS FAULT THAT WE LOST NOT ME" D-Lift doesn't have that type of mentality in my opinion if his team is down X amount of kills or just losing the game he will try to make a play instead of just doing what most ADC/MID"Superstar" players do when their not the tank is just stay in the back do nothing but worry more about their KDA to show to the world "IT NOT MY FAULT I'M FAKER JR with my KDA".

Forgiven fitting in with TSM. I really don't know in the long run to be honest. Right now it makes sense picking up Forgiven to play with TSM as it will give Bjergsen another "EU Buddy" both aren't Danish but it makes a player who is a foreign player be more comfortable when you have 1 of your Country-men playing with you and around you.

Overall I think it would be great if TSM does get Forgiven but they really need to watch his behavior as it could be a huge distraction in the long run.

Ale non è maleNov 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=III BAKURYU III ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=ih5QWRWE,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-07T18:51:52.371+0000)

Is Forgiven a better player than D-Lift that is debatable

No it is not. He is better. He is better basically in every aspect of the game, and it is not like Doublelift can make up as a different playstyle, cause they are similar, and heck, at these Worlds Forg1ven has even shown that he can step back and let other shine unlike Double that must be the star, which leads him to make plays that can lose games for TSM (and Rekkles going for KDA, LUL, then how was even possible S5 FNC with Huni, Reignover and Febiven? that is pure bullshit)

The thing is get Forg1ven is not wise if they want to keep Double around because he isn't so much better to justify spending an import slot and facing the risk of bad adaptation to the team (I think he would fit very well)

If we assume what Double and TSM is true and the TSM plan is to stick with Double unless they find some young guy who amazes them and can hopefull stay with them on the long term, then Forg1ven is obviously not the choice

Then of course, if Double and/or TSM are lying a bit, Forg1ven would be a very good option, but I don't think TSM should go that route, quite honestly, they either go all in or get younger blood

III BAKURYU III Nov 7, 20161 votes

" No it is not. He is better. He is better basically in every aspect of the game, and it is not like Doublelift can make up as a different playstyle, cause they are similar, and heck, at these Worlds Forg1ven has even shown that he can step back and let other shine unlike Double that must be the star, which leads him to make plays that can lose games for TSM"

I don't think Forgiven is better than D-lift; it's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
H2K and TSM had some what similar playstyles at Worlds this past year. Both teams had aggressive junglers that made plays that at times would cost their perspective teams games more so for TSM with Sven going somewhere like 1-7 against RNG(I didn't watch most of the Group D games because of the blackouts and flood from the Coastal Storm).
Bjergsen for some reason since joining TSM would typically play "support mages" while TSM's ADC would be the aggressive player while Bjergsen with the talent and skill can help them while still having the skill to get their own opportunities. I would say Bjergsen when he is on a play making champion similar to his days back in EU 2011-2013 he would lose games but once he joined TSM and started to play more "support mages" he won games.

" Rekkles going for KDA, LUL, then how was even possible S5 FNC with Huni, Reignover and Febiven? that is pure bullshit) "

Like I said " WHEN THEY WOULD LOSE GAMES" - 4th Paragraph.
Rekkles had 70 Games where he only died 2 or less times and his teams would lose the game. 14 out of the 70 Games he didn't die once.

Maybe I'm not doing my homework on the subject but when you have teammates such as ( Xpeke,Yellowstar,Soaz,Cynanide,Febiven,Huni,Reignover,Froggen) and your win percentage is .612 with a Score average of 4.42-1.42-5.29 as Rekkles opposed to 4.91-2.33-5.34 with a .610 win Percentage as D-Lift. I thought the person who has 0.91 less deaths would have more kills and more assists with a much better supporting staff than D-Lift has had in his career.

" If we assume what Double and TSM is true and the TSM plan is to stick with Double unless they find some young guy who amazes them and can hopefull stay with them on the long term, then Forg1ven is obviously not the choice "
I agree with you; TSM found Biofrost in less than a week in Korea and I think that is the right path for the future for TSM. They need to get younger and really out of all of the teams in both EU and NA TSM is really the only team that doesn't have a "bench" they don't sub players or have any depth on the team. If TSM gets Forgiven they need to start looking for Younger talents for the future.

I agree D-Lift/Sven/Bjergsen and honestly other LCS stars such as Aphromoo/Darshan/Xmithie/Froggen/Xpeke/Soaz have all played for 5+ years; they won't be playing for ever and teams with those players needs to start thinking about "rebuilding" and need to start to put in players in the lineup ever now and then to ease the transition when the time does come for these older players to retire and having these new "bloods" have all the pressure on them to carry the load in their first games.

Ale non è maleNov 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=III BAKURYU III ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=ih5QWRWE,comment-id=0005000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-07T20:51:37.073+0000)

I don't think Forgiven is better than D-lift; it's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

H2K and TSM had some what similar playstyles at Worlds this past year.

How? I'd suggest you to rewatch the game. H2k went poor man's version of Korean style, TSM went a completely different direction I 'd suggest you to rewatch their games, you'd change idea

Bjergsen for some reason since joining TSM would typically play "support mages" while TSM's ADC would be the aggressive player while Bjergsen with the talent and skill can help them while still having the skill to get their own opportunities. I would say Bjergsen when he is on a play making champion similar to his days back in EU 2011-2013 he would lose games but once he joined TSM and started to play more "support mages" he won games.

And this thought about Bjergsen means? We are talking about Forg1ven and Double here. Forg1ven stepped back and let other take the spotlight, TSM was disfunctional because Double had the urge to make plays even when it wasn't the situation to do it Against top level teams you should have players capable to both step up and leave the scene to their mates if they are performing You don't have to force someone to be always in the shadows to have a single guy shine, that's not how the best teams (Koreans) work

" Rekkles going for KDA, LUL, then how was even possible S5 FNC with Huni, Reignover and Febiven? that is pure bullshit) "

Like I said " WHEN THEY WOULD LOSE GAMES" - 4th Paragraph.
Rekkles had 70 Games where he only died 2 or less times and his teams would lose the game. 14 out of the 70 Games he didn't die once.

Maybe I'm not doing my homework on the subject but when you have teammates such as ( Xpeke,Yellowstar,Soaz,Cynanide,Febiven,Huni,Reignover,Froggen) and your win percentage is .612 with a Score average of 4.42-1.42-5.29 as Rekkles opposed to 4.91-2.33-5.34 with a .610 win Percentage as D-Lift. I thought the person who has 0.91 less deaths would have more kills and more assists with a much better supporting staff than D-Lift has had in his career.

The argument and comparison you make are really silly. Everyone complained about Rekkles being too passive in S5 (and he even had his shining moments on things like Kennen ADC, let's not forget that), yet in S6 he wasn't that passive, it is just that in different teams he adapted to different roles, from having a top-mid centric team to a team where he was the best performer What the heck does KDA across two different leagues with different competitive level means? Whoever saw Rekkles play has seen that across his career he has been capable to adapt to being both the star guy, especially earlier in his career, and the guy that does the supporting cast to the star Forg1ven only in this latest H2K stint showed this ability, and Double never showed it

How could you put on the same level of egocentrism Rekkles with both Forg1ven and Double is beyond anyone that has seen all of those 3 guys playing

III BAKURYU III Nov 7, 20161 votes

I watched most of the H2K games and some of the TSM(highlights not much highlights from TSM ;[ but I saw Sven dying 24/7 while D-Lift would play decently in teamfights with the exception of the Victor 100-0 ult from SSG. I saw that Forgiven and Vander would get not beat but go 60-40 in lane but H2K's jungler was making all the plays for that team and when you're facing INTZ,EDG and AHQ is much different than RNG and SSG.

You can't talk about how players perform and their history without talking about who they have played with was the reason with the Bjergsen topic from me. Bjergsen has stated before that he doesn't want to be the shotcaller for TSM for about 2 years now so when they got D-Lift he then became the Shotcaller for TSM with Bjergsen on the sideline. So the plays that TSM made and lost was because of D-Lift so I give you that one.

D-Lift and Forgiven are on different Leagues with different competitive level too. NA pretty much stomped EU this past year so the competitive "pond" for EU was limited but Forgiven was one of Eu's best ADC and when the competition for a region is meh doesn't that make Forgiven meh also.

Ale non è maleNov 8, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=III BAKURYU III ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=ih5QWRWE,comment-id=000500000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-07T21:38:31.261+0000)

I watched most of the H2K games and some of the TSM(highlights not much highlights from TSM ;[ but I saw Sven dying 24/7 while D-Lift would play decently in teamfights with the exception of the Victor 100-0 ult from SSG. I saw that Forgiven and Vander would get not beat but go 60-40 in lane but H2K's jungler was making all the plays for that team and when you're facing INTZ,EDG and AHQ is much different than RNG and SSG.

You are focusing only on jungler play, that's the problem. Their playstyle wasn't similar at all, because the top lane performance H2K could get (Odamne best non-Korean top laner at Worlds and with Duke being not that good was even arguable him being top 3 overall in the role) changed their style towards more of a poor man's Korean style changing also the way mid and bot could interact, while TSM was the usual Bjerg and Double + enhancers style

You can't talk about how players perform and their history without talking about who they have played with was the reason with the Bjergsen topic from me. Bjergsen has stated before that he doesn't want to be the shotcaller for TSM for about 2 years now so when they got D-Lift he then became the Shotcaller for TSM with Bjergsen on the sideline. So the plays that TSM made and lost was because of D-Lift so I give you that one.

This is not even a matter of shotcalling here. This is a matter of mentality, TSM was always focused to enhance their carries and Double always thought that it is them that had to make the play, without being able to recognize when being the focal foint and when taking the backseat and taking an enhancer mentality

Double could have never achieved from a mental point of view the 0/0/X game Forg1ven had at Worlds

D-Lift and Forgiven are on different Leagues with different competitive level too. **NA pretty much stomped EU this past year **so the competitive "pond" for EU was limited but Forgiven was one of Eu's best ADC and when the competition for a region is meh doesn't that make Forgiven meh also.

LMFAO And even if it was true (which is not), make a stat comparison between two leagues of different level is silly, especially if you want about the ego of the players Those guys are in different teams that play with different dynamics that plays vs different teams of not equal level, so reduce an evaluation of ego to their numbers is, well, silly

The thing is, Rekkles has always been better from an ego point of view than both Double and Forg1ven, so compare him in a discussion about them in this aspect make absolute no sense

Miror BNov 7, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=ih5QWRWE,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-07T17:50:12.456+0000)

Forg1ven didn't work in OG because there were play style conflicts between him and Hybrid - and later on personal conflicts with Hybrid that was slandering him and was in general unprofessional and toxic with the entire team so they kicked him - (see the leaked Skype group EU LCS drama)

More in general a lot of his former mates have talked well about him, he is just too competitive and tend to bash the others when they don't live up to their max level, that's where the "toxicity" label come from

And Forg1ven is clearly better than Doublelift as player, if TSM ever picks him up, Double is likely gone because no way they can justify re-inserting him in the roster ahead of Forg1ven (unless they take an even better import than Firg1ven in another position, lel)

Yeah, no. Forgiven didn't work well in origen because the team was massively dysfunctional on a multitude of levels. Not only did xpeke stick his nose in too much (subbing in/out people at what seemed like random), but the team seemed to have literally no energy or "want" to play at times. You could stick the 5 best players in the world on origen's roster, and with their management/xpeke they'd still find a way to finish in last place in EU.

Also, I'd say forgiven/dl are practically even (both being toxic players with a decent amount of skill who are known to make massive gaffes in crucial moments). Trying to say who is better of the two is nitpicking, which arguably makes forgiven the best possible replacement for dl as TSM wouldn't exactly have to "change" much.

Ale non è maleNov 7, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, no. Forgiven didn't work well in origen because the team was massively dysfunctional on a multitude of levels. Not only did xpeke stick his nose in too much (subbing in/out people at what seemed like random), but the team seemed to have literally no energy or "want" to play at times. You could stick the 5 best players in the world on origen's roster, and with their management/xpeke they'd still find a way to finish in last place in EU.

Also, I'd say forgiven/dl are practically even (both being toxic players with a decent amount of skill who are known to make massive gaffes in crucial moments). Trying to say who is better of the two is nitpicking, which arguably makes forgiven the best possible replacement for dl as TSM wouldn't exactly have to "change" much.

Nah, the problem was not management. it was that PoE didn't live to the expectations from his UoL days because origen was structured in a completely different way and he had to step up in a completely different role when they required him to be the playmaker that he wasn't on the historic UoL roster with Viz-Kikis-Hylissang. xPeke was the glue guy for those S5 origen, and in Spring they played better with Peke despite him being an inferior mechanical player than with PoE And it was that their very good bot lane Zven-mithy decided to leave and were replaced by a duo that didn't end up working well together for issues among theirselves

Nitpicking? LOL. Double doesn't do ANYTHING better than Forg1ven. it is not nitpicking, one guy is half a step better than the other

Miror BNov 8, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=ih5QWRWE,comment-id=000500000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-11-07T21:18:00.940+0000)

Nah, the problem was not management. it was that PoE didn't live to the expectations from his UoL days because origen was structured in a completely different way and he had to step up in a completely different role when they required him to be the playmaker that he wasn't on the historic UoL roster with Viz-Kikis-Hylissang. xPeke was the glue guy for those S5 origen, and in Spring they played better with Peke despite him being an inferior mechanical player than with PoE And it was that their very good bot lane Zven-mithy decided to leave and were replaced by a duo that didn't end up working well together for issues among theirselves

Nitpicking? LOL. Double doesn't do ANYTHING better than Forg1ven. it is not nitpicking, one guy is half a step better than the other

Yeah, no. While poe could be partially to blame for origen's lack of success, the entire team as a whole could also be blamed due to the fact that until xpeke stepped in (and "corralled the chickens" ) they literally looked unmotivated and bored in many of their games. While you could blame the players for their lack of motivation, blaming management makes more sense as they're the ones who are supposed to not only get the best possible players but have them performing at their best.

And yeah, it's nitpicking. If we're looking at stats, then yes forgiven might have a minor edge (would really like to see the "side by side comparison" ). In a vaccuum though in which both players are playing under the exact same situation with the exact same competition/region preferences (none of this easy as hell NA b/s) then they're realistically the same player only that nobody from NA is going to take back DL if he chooses to team-hop again.

Ale non è maleNov 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, no. While poe could be partially to blame for origen's lack of success, the entire team as a whole could also be blamed due to the fact that until xpeke stepped in (and "corralled the chickens" ) they literally looked unmotivated and bored in many of their games. While you could blame the players for their lack of motivation, blaming management makes more sense as they're the ones who are supposed to not only get the best possible players but have them performing at their best.

The problem is that the entire team was build around xPeke, so they dropoff in performance led to a progressive dropoff in motivation that further worsen the situation And still, spring Origen was not THAT bad, as they ended up 2nd in spring playoffs after xPeke pushed them to 4th place in RS with the 3-0 with him in the last two weeks, albeit the level of spring split was not that good Origen real problem was that in summer they got PoE that didn't step up AND the new bot lane that basically crashed and burned, so they got no real performer aside from some games from sOAZ here and there (and sOAZ was shaky because of unfavourable meta), and management can only do so much if the team don't gel together (and on the contrary has internal frictions) and players do not perform, tbh

The fact you are blaming XPeke and management is laughable, heck, the fact that even being in complete shambles in an emergency situation they could salvage their LCS spot was a good management result all things considered (ask NRG for reference)

And yeah, it's nitpicking. If we're looking at stats, then yes forgiven might have a minor edge (would really like to see the "side by side comparison" ). In a vaccuum though in which both players are playing under the exact same situation with the exact same competition/region preferences (none of this easy as hell NA b/s) then they're realistically the same player only that nobody from NA is going to take back DL if he chooses to team-hop again.

No, it is not Name a single thing Doublelift does better. He does not do anything better, he is on par or worse on literally everything It is not like you can say "eh, Doublelift has the mechanical advantage" or "eh, Doublelift is better in teamfights" ,he doesn't do ANYTHING better

If one guy is on par or better than another guy in every aspect of the game, he is simply better. And Forg1ven is better, as they play similar style but Forg1ven just has the edge in every aspect. The difference is not huge, because Doublelift is, well, a pretty good player, but it exist To try to argue that is trying to fire up the EU vs NA dispute all over again which is really sickening, tbh. Why someone can't say "this guy is good, but this is better?" I mean, Forg1ven is literally the worst comparison in the west for Double, as they play the same but one is better; other NA ADC can have argument on certain aspects of the game over Forg1ven so it becomes more of a debate between them in direct comparison (for example PEAK Sneaky), but Double...just not win anything in the comparison

Wh1teWu1fNov 8, 20161 votes

I don't think his toxic nature would be showing up too much considering he only seems to become frustrated when people aren't performing as well as they should be (which, a lot of Origen's players were pretty much doing).

I agree that the idea of potential replacement for the summer split would probably be a deterrent, but at the same time I think it would be way more beneficial for TSM to have an actual sub for one of their roles rather than have a solid 5 man team that you can't switch out if one starts under-performing. So while Forgiven may end up taking a back seat during Summer, they could always swap him in during Worlds if they feel like they need it.

As for the Veteran point, this is a decision that a team and players really have to make imo, because what it really comes down to is if they want to slowly build up their new talent again, and wait even longer to go at the Worlds title, or if they want to shoot for the title in Season 7 and maybe Season 8 depending on how it goes. I think it could be extremely beneficial to sign Forgiven and then start up a challenger team at the same time, so you can start working on that new talent and take the future into consideration, but not only that, you can also effectively have whatever ADC is subbed at the time coach the challenger team ADC, giving them a huge boost in experience and knowledge. Granted that's all theory and I have no idea how much it would actually cost, but if they could afford it, I think it'd be worth it.

(Ohq would definitely be a good choice if they can't get Forgiven imo, all the alternatives either don't look like they have as much potential or just don't seem to want to play anymore).

III BAKURYU III Nov 8, 20161 votes

Yeah Origen had some players that I felt was "old" it's hard to explain with people playing video games who are 20-22 years old but the age factor does play a factor when you're a pro in the League scene as you tend to actually think about real life stuff, real job, money,school, a real life etc etc.
Xpeke was he under performing? YES, but 2015 was his final rodeo on the big stage not to mention OG lost their entire bot lane to G2. Amazing/Soaz were they under performing? YES/NO. I really thought they did their best on stage; I don't live with in the OG house so I cant really say what their practice was like but I did however like the fight that they put up with multiple 40+ min games when they were the underdog team and making teams take 40+ min to beat them; as OG was a decent map oriented team even with a "mid tier" lineup.

Would Forgiven be cool with taking a back seat to D-Lift no questions asked, rather he and TSM won Spring split or he carried TSM etc etc? I don't think he would. Why would he if he did perform well enough to win Spring split or helped them get back to the Finals or just over performs to the limit that TSM sets out. Forgiven is a 4-5 year veteran and asking someone who has "payed their dues" to take a back seat no questions asked is asking too much in my opinion.

( I don't know what IMO means) - Please explain?

Yeah like I said and how you pointed out TSM and other NA/Eu/XXX region teams really need to think about the future and how the new up and coming stars will blend in to the culture of the LCS(NA/EU).
Look at the talent for NA right now that just got thrown in because they didn't really have the teams to sub them in and out. Big/Hard/Moon/ etc players that aren't very good as far as LCS standards; I know they are challenger and they would beat me a S3 noob but lets get real some of these players are trash as far as talent goes.
Apex gaming had like a 30 man roster and didn't sub ONCE; in which shows that their mentality was to win Summer Split and go to Worlds which I love Cinderella stories but...... C'mon man Apex... Worlds.... no.

So like you said masterfully give these challenger teams/bottom teams some real depth for the future.

KazaLyn ShaoNov 6, 20161 votes

Guess someone forgot about Turtle getting 100-0ed by a Jhin cult because he literally can't dodge to save his life.

Miror BNov 7, 20161 votes

With DL "gone", TSM can and will replace him with the highest end of talent available. While the ADC pool isn't exactly "deep" right now, as far as temporary replacements go there are a few "high-calibur" options:

Forgiven- IMO the most likely possibility, not only was he a massive plus to an h2k team that saw their top/mid laners be incredibly inconsistent but he is also fits the same profile as DL (an egotistical player with a high skillcap who has bounced from team to team due to attitude problems).

Piglet/Fabby/Altec- The most likely backup options if they don't land forgiven, I expect all three to be on an LCS team this year due to the stuff that happened with TL and all the sub-bs and the fact that their talent was shown to be rather decent.

Nien/Keith- If TSM don't land my first two options, one of these two will probably be who they sign. While both don't have an "amazing" track history, they wouldn't need to do much to fit into a tsm team that has most of their roster from last season.

Just Blame JennyNov 7, 20161 votes

Gosu's been a rumor, but I don't think there's much to it. Gosu himself has stated that he's not at all qualified for the position, nor is he interested at the moment.

tplegs0708Nov 7, 20161 votes

TSM QTPIE!!! make it happen! c'mon its only 1 split...what can go wrong?

Wh1teWu1fNov 7, 20161 votes

Pretty sure QT has said in one of Scarra's videos (Behind the Rift or something like that) that he never wants to go back to proplay, so highly doubtful.

EpikFeederNov 7, 20161 votes

TSM should just get Forgiven or Piglet. They obviously go for the big names and care nothing about actually playing as a team. That being said.....I think its BS that DL wants to skip summer split and only play for a shot at worlds. But, given his abnormally huge ego im not surprised at all.

Ale non è maleNov 7, 20161 votes

I think that if Double words are true, TSM should take a gamble and go on someone like Ohq, which showed talent and promise but got stuck on a a NRG team that collapsed badly in its entirety in the last summer split. It would be a win-win situation for TSM:

If he work he stays and they stick to him long term, with the added bonus that at this point (after 2017 LCS spring split) he would yet have been 1 year and a half in NA as import and could free in a not so distant future an import slot
if he does not work they can easily dump him and get Double back

Mr PayneNov 8, 20161 votes

please senpai turtle come back

TBakesNov 8, 20161 votes

Unless TSM drops Svenskeren, they have to use a domestic ADC, since Bjerg and Svens are using the 2 import slots they have.

Also, keep in mind Doublelift wants to come back in Spring, which means TSM is not going to find a long-term ADC to fill his shoes.

The meta should be different next season, too. I think they should find a Challenger player to have an extended tryout for the Split. They need someone who can just hold lane and let Bjerg + Hauntzer carry. Biofrost is still somewhat new, so I think they should just focus on developing him and training a back-up of a sort. Nothing major like Forgiven, Piglet, WildTurtle, etc. that people are proposing below. The only one moderately appealing mentioned in this thread is Altec, but I think even that is a stretch since he is a veteran of a sort.

Ale non è maleNov 8, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Unless TSM drops Svenskeren, they have to use a domestic ADC, since Bjerg and Svens are using the 2 import slots they have.

Bjerg is not using an import slot, he has NA residency, right now they have only Sven as import on their roster, that's why they can add an import at any position (and that's why the Spring Split team with Sven-Bjerg-Yellowstar was possible)

TBakesNov 8, 20161 votes

!!!! I didn't realize that. Good catch. I'm glad, because that opens up so possibilities then.

Still, I don't think they would go through the trouble of importing someone for ADC when they have such a good player in reserves for Summer. Realistically, they just need to get top 3 in Spring and then crush Summer to qualify for Worlds again. I don't imagine they will go through the trouble of bringing in a long-term imported ADC. Who knows?

Ale non è maleNov 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

!!!! I didn't realize that. Good catch. I'm glad, because that opens up so possibilities then.

Still, I don't think they would go through the trouble of importing someone for ADC when they have such a good player in reserves for Summer. Realistically, they just need to get top 3 in Spring and then crush Summer to qualify for Worlds again. I don't imagine they will go through the trouble of bringing in a long-term imported ADC. Who knows?

I think that only TSM and Double know how much true are Double words, because that's the whole point That open import slot is a precious asset for TSM future, so importing someone at ADC who isn't yet in NA and can't get residency Soon (TM) isn't worth if it is not a super player that is more worth than any other import they could possible get, given that Double is still good Of course if Double or TSm aren't sure about having him back, that opens a whole different scenario

In the first case, they should probably pick up Ohq or dig into NACS AD talent pool, if it is the latter it opens up to a wide range of possibilities